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No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 7:19:22 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Discuss.......

P.S. I'm not talking of the time someone went to a supermarket intent on buying cabbage only to have a hideous reawakening of their values and bought cauliflower instead.

As a pointer - what are you capable of in extreme circumstances?

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.
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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 7:45:49 AM   
ShoreBound149


Posts: 622
Joined: 7/2/2009
Status: offline 		I like not not knowing myself completely.  Being 100% defnable would be excruciatingly boring.  I purposely put myself in unfamiliar situations to see how I would feel and react.  Skydiving and walking through Harlem at night alone kind of stuff. 

edited because I had a Jeffff moment.






< Message edited by ShoreBound149 -- 3/20/2010 7:46:58 AM >

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 7:54:27 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Cannot argue with the title.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 7:59:24 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		the rain falls mainly in the plains?

LOL.

I know myself pretty well.  It is others who dont know me- have a rough time figuring out what my person is.

As to the produce-  HELL YEAH!   It is great for your colon!!!

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 7:59:54 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		The thing is, we seem to make plans based on unreliable information. The when an alternate, but perfectly good future comes along we go, "huh?"

I know myself well enough to know I may not react the way I think I will.

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"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 8:06:39 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You are such an idealistic dreamer, North.  As if most people are even capable of such an honest self-examination, or have ever actually had their delusions of identity tested.  As if they cannot simply deny or rationalize the failings.  As if the most sanctimonious replies won't come from the biggest hypocrites.

I know that the phrase "I would never" has amounted to a challenge to the gods when I have been so foolish as to use it. 

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 8:19:10 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		In extremis, there is nothing that is not physically impossible for me, that I could not do and would not do.

Other may view this as insane, incredible, boastful or whatever. I know myself well enough to know what I am capable of, even if it goes against everything I believe in, when the circumstances prevailing require it of me.

E

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 8:19:54 AM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I'm with everyone else, so far.  I couldn't begin to predict how I'd react in an extreme situation.  If its abruptly extreme (like, an immediate thing) I'm sure once that "fight or flight" adrenaline rush hits me, its all gonna be a blur anyway.  If its a situation turning extreme all I can do is deal...and how that would be, well...I just don't know, but whether poorly or not, I would deal.

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 8:36:50 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Discuss.......

P.S. I'm not talking of the time someone went to a supermarket intent on buying cabbage only to have a hideous reawakening of their values and bought cauliflower instead.

As a pointer - what are you capable of in extreme circumstances?


It would stand to reason that if we don't even know what's truly going on around us, it's not likely that we will know ourselves.

Regarding your pointer and assuming that by "extreme," you mean really really extreme, thereby negating the subjectivity of the term, I think it's reasonable to assume that most of us haven't been tested under such circumstances. This in itself supports your assertion that most of us really can't possibly know ourselves.

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:08:01 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		The (very) few times i have been confronted by an extreme situation i was rather impressed with myself - when I stopped shaking.

example - worked in an ER - had a patient come in from a car wreck, pt. stated he didn't want to see his wife, idiot hostess bought wife in and pt. came out of all the strapping, off the backboard and had wife pinned under the sink on the far side of the room from the door. Security was dithering at the door of the room. I don't know where this came from but I stormed into the room, grabbed wife by the hair and pulled her out of the room , over a footstool in the process, and went back into the room and demanded he get back on the bed and lie down and quit acting like an idiot. Pt very meekly did what he was told.
99.9% of the time i am not that assertive.

I realise this isn't life or death but there was potential for damage to one or more people. I really think that in extreme situations people hit something inside of themselves that enables them to be "better" than themselves".

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:13:29 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		The more I learn about myself, the more I realise the less I know. And I'm just fine with that.

And for the record, yes I have surprised myself before. I am actually not doing so bad in this doctoral level economics course I'm taking. Who would have thought!

- LA

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:17:15 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		The older I get, the more I realize I am largely unchanged as far as my nature goes. I have pretty much the same ideals I had as a child. I have more shades of gray in the way I view right and wrong, but essentially I am a lot the same as I have always been. I do not think we change the basic structure of our identities significantly. We may come to have a more salient idea of why we believe the way we do, where our emotional compass is, etc, but basically I think we remain much as we always were...

For some of us this is good news, for others, not so much so...  

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:19:41 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am always changing so it is hard to really know myself...but three times in my life I have been tested...I stepped forward and surprised myself. Now I at least have those memories to fall back on. I know deep down that if I am needed I can function with fear.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:27:29 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		After up close and personal doses of extreme and negative life situations in the past year, I can honestly say that I do know myself and what I am capable of, what I can handle and what I cannot handle.

Despite some pretty awful things having happened to me, I got through each and every one and still stand proudly. Since I know that these events were not of my choice or doing, I survived them.

I still have work to do on ridding myself of the negativity that accompanied these events; but honestly? I am damn proud of myself and how I handled so much, all on my own.

So yes, some people do know themselves and keep on discovering more.

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:28:30 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I still have work to do on ridding myself of the negativity that accompanied these events; but honestly? I am damn proud of myself and how I handled so much, all on my own.


Isn't that a beautiful feeling?


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 9:45:36 AM   
bighappygoth39


Posts: 633
Joined: 10/7/2009
Status: offline 		Well, I tend to only have an idea of how I'm going to react to certain situations if I've already come across them before. Sometimes I've thought I'd react in certain ways to something but when faced with it have reacted very differently so it's good to know I'm not too predictable anyway though it can be a bit of a shock sometimes but thats what makes life life I guess. 

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 10:21:25 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		General reply.....

Yes...I think it's reasonable to offer that it's anyone's guess as to how people would react in the most extreme circumstances....which has implications for identity and self-awareness. And the bloke you meet in the street who stops to chat and takes the time to give you directions...is he a Nazi in another situation? And what does all this mean for political views?

What's interesting is that in such situations there are examples of people who have acted completely selflessly and actually given their lives so someone else can live - not a relative either. And there are those who will do anything to survive. And then there are those who when given the choice between death and standing by their principles have chosen death - and others who would sell their Grandmas for a few quid.

I wonder how much of a role personal ethics can play in such decision making (when instructed by instinct)? and what is it that means some people will act selflessly in the most extreme circumstances and others will do what it takes to keep their heads above water. An interesting aside is that on the Titanic - by all accounts - it genuinely was a case of 'women and children first' while in other shipping disasters the number of men in relation to women and children who have survived suggests there was no sense of 'women and children' first - I wonder how much your cultural traditions can trump personal instinct when push comes to shove?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 10:46:28 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

General reply.....

Yes...I think it's reasonable to offer that it's anyone's guess as to how people would react in the most extreme circumstances....which has implications for identity and self-awareness. And the bloke you meet in the street who stops to chat and takes the time to give you directions...is he a Nazi in another situation? And what does all this mean for political views?

What's interesting is that in such situations there are examples of people who have acted completely selflessly and actually given their lives so someone else can live - not a relative either. And there are those who will do anything to survive. And then there are those who when given the choice between death and standing by their principles have chosen death - and others who would sell their Grandmas for a few quid.

I wonder how much of a role personal ethics can play in such decision making (when instructed by instinct)? and what is it that means some people will act selflessly in the most extreme circumstances and others will do what it takes to keep their heads above water. An interesting aside is that on the Titanic - by all accounts - it genuinely was a case of 'women and children first' while in other shipping disasters the number of men in relation to women and children who have survived suggests there was no sense of 'women and children' first - I wonder how much your cultural traditions can trump personal instinct when push comes to shove?


I do not know if sacrificing oneself for unknown people is necessarily laudable. Many cultures celebrate martyrism , but is it necessarily something that makes someone a better person? Why should I sacrifice myself for a stranger? What makes this the ethical or right or laudable thing to do?

In one circumstance the Soldier (perhaps Nazi )is applauded for his willingness to "follow orders", but in another circumstance he is condemned.... who decides which it the better behavior? I do not know how to answer these questions, but I do know that the answer is variable depending on where one lives and what culture they belong to... so the answer isn't just an individual thing, it is a societal thing.

How I might react to an extreme situation is not a predetermined thing. I do not know, and to be honest, I do not spend much time contemplating that. I act in the best way possible according to my own conditioning of what is right and what is wrong from moment to moment. I do not even think I would like I know how I would react to an extreme situation (like what happened to Haiti for example), but there is one thing I know, I would not feel badly about however I reacted to it. I would accept the consequence of whatever actions (or lack of them) that I took. I would do what I felt was right, but at the same time I would probably take actions designed to save my own skin too... is that wrong? I think it is called "survival instinct". I have very little doubt that I would sacrifice myself for loved ones. I have went through much discomfort in my life for them, went without for those I love... but strangers? I do not know if I would or not. It isn't something I would feel bad about if I chose me and mine to live over others... what makes them more valuable than me? Would I expect someone else to sacrifice their own life for mine? Hardly.

Just my view of it


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 11:13:27 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I wonder how much of a role personal ethics can play in such decision making


You'll want to research cognitive mapping of the decision making process in the field of management sciences.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: No one really knows themselves.... - 3/20/2010 11:27:14 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

How I might react to an extreme situation is not a predetermined thing.



Agreed - anything less suggests we would all act in the same manner - which isn't the case. And we always have a choice - even when someone holds a gun to your head.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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