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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:10:45 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
Personally, I don't care if you're offended.  If that's the case, you're too easily offended and need to turn off your computer until you grow a thicker skin.  Alternately, you could get off your high horse and ask why a statement was made instead of taking it upon yourself to make faulty assumptions.


I can't speak for others, but I will tell you that I found your initial, and terribly flippant statement, shocking.  You're realising that now, but you're finding yourself unable to go back on what you wrote, right?   Why would you dismiss others' concerns as irrelevant otherwise, if it weren't to try and save face? 

You were actually asked what you meant exactly, but you didn't deign to answer the question. Instead, you chose to make some supercilious comment about my not understanding "big words". What a load of shit.

I take it from your post above that you won't mind my saying that people who post that kind of thing are white racist bastards. It is you, after all, who is choosing to fixate your judgement on 'race', and not on individuality. And if you don't like it, then grow a thicker skin, and log off.

Good luck in the modern world.

Why does it have to be white? Cause your a racist as well......


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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:11:02 PM   
stella41b


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Status: offline 		So basically we're talking about another fat, obnoxious American, right?

ETA: The woman in question is an individual, but this thread is proving interesting to see how some people think (or don't, depending on your POV).

< Message edited by stella41b -- 1/8/2010 4:13:05 PM >

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:12:30 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

So basically we're talking about another fat, obnoxious American, right?


Yes, we seem to have several. Perhaps she should be given a radio show.


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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:16:42 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


ETA: The woman in question is an individual, but this thread is proving interesting to see how some people think (or don't, depending on your POV).


I'm afraid you Europeans can't be expected to comprehend just how seriously we rugged, individualist frontier folk take our hamburgers.


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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:21:21 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1751
Status: offline 		Hey All,

Cheeseburger in Paradise...

I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes
Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer
Well, good god Almighty which way do I steer

Yep we Americans do like our burgers....Thank you Jimmy Buffet!

Elizabeth

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:22:25 PM   
mydestiny2043


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I'm afraid you Europeans can't be expected to comprehend just how seriously we rugged, individualist frontier folk take our hamburgers. 



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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:30:25 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Yes but Sylvere how do you know the woman even lives there? You make quite a few assumptions here.


That's true, she might live in another city entirely.  However, this doesn't change the perception of that area of town and that was the point of the comment.  I've seen affluent white women throw equally huge tantrums when I worked and lived on the Kansas side.  Johnson County is known for rich, white snobs with an over-inflated sense of entitlement.  Does that comment make me racist toward white people?  I don't think so, since it doesn't say anything about my personal feelings, but perhaps someone else thinks it does. 
 
quote:

Don't presume you know how I think. You're ascribing racism to me for a hypothetical situation of your own design.

 
Then please do me the same courtesy and don't presume to know how I think or ascribe racism to a general statement that has nothing to do with me, personally.

quote:

 You're supposed to not care what I think, remember?

 
I don't, it was merely an analogy to make a point.  Truthfully, I have no desire to offend you nor did I intend to do so.  However, I'm not going to fall to the ground gnashing my teeth and rending my garments if you are.  IMO, getting offended by a message board post is a waste of time.  My opinion or the opinions of the people in my city shouldn't matter to you either.  If they do, then maybe you should step away from the computer and go do something else.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 4:57:12 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
I can't speak for others, but I will tell you that I found your initial, and terribly flippant statement, shocking.  You're realising that now, but you're finding yourself unable to go back on what you wrote, right?   Why would you dismiss others' concerns as irrelevant otherwise, if it wasn't to try and save face? 


Okay, you found it shocking.  Fine.  Am I unable to go back on what I wrote?  Why would I need to?  Because you're offended?   I don't need to "save face" as you put it because I don't feel I've lost any.  I don't get offended when people on a message board make racist comments about any of the races that make up my heritage (Hispanic, Caucasian, Native American) because they're just random strangers on a message board.  I genuinely don't understand why you would be offended by any comment I would make about the local perception of a particular area of the city in which I live.  Even if I said that I felt that way on a personal level, I still don't understand why you'd be offended, as opposed to simply shrugging it off as an ignorant comment by a random stranger.  How does it affect you, really, in the grand scheme of things?  I can't imagine that it makes any difference.  Clearly, I'm wrong in this, but I still don't get it.

quote:

You were actually asked what you meant exactly, but you didn't deign to answer the question. Instead, you chose to make some supercilious comment about my not understanding "big words". What a load of shit.


No, your initial comment was "what the fuck?"  That's equally flippant as my response.  Pot. Kettle. Equally large pile of shit.  Now, if you'd originally said something along the lines of "excuse me, this comes across as racist and I hope you didn't mean it that way, could you please clarify" then I would have responded differently.  As it stands, I don't really think you're going to listen to anything I have to say, but, since I didn't intend to cause offense and I don't like being misunderstood, I'll try. 

quote:

I take it from your post above that you won't mind my saying that people who post that kind of thing are white racist bastards. It is you, after all, who is choosing to fixate your judgement on 'race', and not on individuality. And if you don't like it, then grow a thicker skin, and log off.


Nope, doesn't bother me in the least.  You can think whatever you want.

quote:

Good luck in the modern world.


Same to you.
 
quote:

So basically we're talking about another fat, obnoxious American, right?

 
Yep, pretty much.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 5:11:22 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

Of course, Midtown is also known for obnoxious denizens of African descent, so she could just be a rude bitch.


In other words, "Obnoxious black people live there, so if that's where she lives she could just be a rude bitch." That's the most logical way to parse out that sentence.


A more accurate interpretatioin would be "Midtown is commonly perceived to be populated by obnoxious black people, so she could just be a rude bitch who's contributing to that perception." 

quote:

You didn't really mean it that way, did you?  You must have meant it some other way, or not realized how that sentence came across - right? I'm thinking that's got to be it.


See above.  I was mistakenly under the impression that my personal views were irrelevant and would not be erroneously extrapolated from the comment.  I should have known better and made more effort to be clear.  I'm not sure it would have made any difference, though.  People will believe what they want and I have no control over it.



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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 5:27:07 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
Clearly, I'm wrong in this, but I still don't get it.


That will do - it's better than nothing.

It's not because it's just a message board that anything goes.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 5:33:52 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan  I'm not sure it would have made any difference, though.  People will believe what they want and I have no control over it.




I believe you. It seemed way out of character. Everyone can word a post in an awkward manner once in a while. That's why i asked. I'm sure if that had occurred to you, you'd have worded it differently. C'est la vie!


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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 5:47:02 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's not because it's just a message board that anything goes.


I'm not saying it does or that it should.  I just don't quite understand why you would assume that the comment was my personal viewpoint instead of a statement about the local perception.  I don't see how you got from Point A to Point Z, but that's obviously a failing on my part.  If you'd like to explain, I'll listen.  I won't pretend I'll understand it, but I'll attempt to wrap my head around it.  I also don't understand why you'd take offense, but I comprehend that you did.  That doesn't mean I'm going to let your offended sensibilities affect my life, however.  I apologize if that offends you, but it is what it is.
 
quote:

I believe you. It seemed way out of character. Everyone can word a post in an awkward manner once in a while. That's why i asked.
 
Thank you, Panda.  I appreciate that you gave me the benefit of your doubt and am grateful you took the time to ask without jumping to conclusions.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 6:36:42 PM   
DomMeinCT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's not because it's just a message board that anything goes.


I'm not saying it does or that it should.  I just don't quite understand why you would assume that the comment was my personal viewpoint instead of a statement about the local perception.  I don't see how you got from Point A to Point Z, but that's obviously a failing on my part.  If you'd like to explain, I'll listen.  I won't pretend I'll understand it, but I'll attempt to wrap my head around it.  I also don't understand why you'd take offense, but I comprehend that you did.  That doesn't mean I'm going to let your offended sensibilities affect my life, however.  I apologize if that offends you, but it is what it is.
 
quote:

I believe you. It seemed way out of character. Everyone can word a post in an awkward manner once in a while. That's why i asked.
 
Thank you, Panda.  I appreciate that you gave me the benefit of your doubt and am grateful you took the time to ask without jumping to conclusions.


I truly am not trying to further the argument, but I do think that the default thought when I read someone's words are that those words are their thoughts and opinions, NOT others' opinions.  I'm finding it surprising that you don't understand that.

ETA:  removed extra word

< Message edited by DomMeinCT -- 1/8/2010 6:37:21 PM >

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 6:51:48 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
I don't see how you got from Point A to Point Z, but that's obviously a failing on my part.


No, I don't think it's a failing on your part necessarily. Statements can sometimes be clearly racist and sometimes not so clear. In the latter case the racism is always in the eye of the beholder. There are people who can find racism (or sexism or sexual harassment, etc.) in just about any statement. There are people whose sole objective is to get from Point A to Point Z as fast as possible when there is any mention of race. Having lived in the deep south for going on thirty years I have seen the race card played so many times at the drop of the hat... which is sad because it overshadows those occasions where true racism exists.


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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 6:53:41 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT

I truly am not trying to further the argument, but I do think that the default thought when I read someone's words are that those words are their thoughts and opinions, NOT others' opinions.  I'm finding it surprising that you don't understand that.

ETA:  removed extra word


I find it surprising that you or anyone else would interpret the clause "is known for" to translate to "I believe" as opposed to "the local perception is."  I tend to look for linguistic cues like this, which indicate the poster may have a different view from that stated, but that's just me.  From the tone of your post, I could interpret your words to be lies (i.e. you do intend to fuel conflict and/or insult me) because people often say such things to cover up their contradictory motivations, but I don't.  I take your words at face value because that is how I expect my words to be taken.  Maybe I'm strange but that's how my mind works.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 7:27:39 PM   
DomMeinCT


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Status: offline 		I don't lie, so that's great that you took my words at face value.  I'm trying to dissect and explain what you found surprising.

Phrases such as "is known for" are commonly used by people to project their own feelings and opinions onto a larger population.  That's another linguistic cue, if you will.  Add that usage's interpretation to a topic with the ability to inflame and those were the results.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 7:51:24 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT

I don't lie, so that's great that you took my words at face value.  I'm trying to dissect and explain what you found surprising.


I don't lie either and lies are one of the few things that I care enough about to take offense, so I appreciate your honesty.  I also appreciate your willingness to attempt the explanation.

quote:

Phrases such as "is known for" are commonly used by people to project their own feelings and opinions onto a larger population.  That's another linguistic cue, if you will. 


Okay, this is where the disconnect happened.  I've recently come from an academic setting where I was required to back up any statement with fact and cite sources.  It was common to present a particular viewpoint and then argue either for or against it.  My freelance writing also requires this.  So if I say "X area of town is known for" I expect people to understand that this is a common perception, but not necessarily my view.

quote:

Add that usage's interpretation to a topic with the ability to inflame and those were the results.


So I see.  Now that you've explained, I understand how it happened but not really why.  I tend to approach things is a detached, analytical fashion based on my experience and my lack of willingness to become emotionally invested.  When someone else takes a different approach, I don't always understand where they're coming from or why.  Thanks for being my translator. 

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 8:05:59 PM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


ETA: The woman in question is an individual, but this thread is proving interesting to see how some people think (or don't, depending on your POV).


I'm afraid you Europeans can't be expected to comprehend just how seriously we rugged, individualist frontier folk take our hamburgers.



It would seem so.

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RE: Hamburger Rage - 1/8/2010 9:40:24 PM   
DomMeinCT


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quote:

Thanks for being my translator.
 
And thank you for having this conversation.

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