quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

So this is an issue of the final result turning you on, but not necessarily enjoying the paths it takes to get there.

no. the final result is that i feel all soothed and peaceful and then im up and about all happy to serve and please again. but sexually turned on, no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

ive just realised that further up i said that i need to express my submission through pain. so maybe i do need it in a masso way. but its a need i can live without when im not in a relationship. when i am the need arises. [&:]

to Level: thank you, and yes i would agree with everything youve said there. its being weakened and over powered by a will stronger than my own. its an expression of my personality that does not and could not and would not acquiesce to anyone else. but to them i do. its because they want to reduce me down and see me reduced that allows me to let it all go - the catharsis then, maybe is in being taken down to that vulnerable place i cant allow myself to go to with anyone else hence the bond.

and thank you for working to help me out. xx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Nope, it is not always enjoyable. Sometimes it freakin hurts. A couple of years ago I was stressing about family, love and money and quite by accident I stepped on a hot coal from the BBQ. That hurt! But, all the other issues just stopped being as important. It is not that pain is erotic, it is that pain is focus. Sometimes it makes me wet, sometimes it calms me down, sometimes it freakin hurts, and sometimes it makes me feel close to whoever delivered it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

pain is focus. yep! - everything else definitely fades out [:D] - i can totally relate to 'it calms me down'/'freakin hurts'/feel close to whoever delivers it'.

making me wet, not yet, maybe one day. that would suggest then that it is sexual for you or sometimes sexual for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

ive just realised that further up i said that i need to express my submission through pain. so maybe i do need it in a masso way. but its a need i can live without when im not in a relationship. when i am the need arises. [&:]

to Level: thank you, and yes i would agree with everything youve said there. its being weakened and over powered by a will stronger than my own. its an expression of my personality that does not and could not and would not acquiesce to anyone else. but to them i do. its because they want to reduce me down and see me reduced that allows me to let it all go - the catharsis then, maybe is in being taken down to that vulnerable place i cant allow myself to go to with anyone else hence the bond.

and thank you for working to help me out. xx

.but then you have no one to suffer for

see me suffer i'm doing it for you

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Have you considered that you are a masochist? You do not have to love pain to be masochistic. I don't love it. But I do need it. Pain settles me, it brings me calm, it allows me to connect to a more peaceful mind space after I have survived it.

quote:

it allows me to connect to a more peaceful mind space after I have survived it.

quote:

when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but...,

fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that.

yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it.

i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit.

i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely.

if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but...,

fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that.

yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it.

i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit.

i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely.

if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

lally,

I shall ponder this problem!

CP

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

ive just realised that further up i said that i need to express my submission through pain. so maybe i do need it in a masso way. but its a need i can live without when im not in a relationship. when i am the need arises. [&:]

to Level: thank you, and yes i would agree with everything youve said there. its being weakened and over powered by a will stronger than my own. its an expression of my personality that does not and could not and would not acquiesce to anyone else. but to them i do. its because they want to reduce me down and see me reduced that allows me to let it all go - the catharsis then, maybe is in being taken down to that vulnerable place i cant allow myself to go to with anyone else hence the bond.

and thank you for working to help me out. xx

.but then you have no one to suffer for

see me suffer i'm doing it for you

ok clever clogs [:D] - thanks, i hadnt thought of that, now its obvious [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


stop pondering and go out and get someone to make you do all the stuff you wouldn't do on your own

let him do all the pondering

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
.lally,

I shall ponder this problem!

CP

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2



i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2



i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

If getting to the end *because they wish/expect you to do so* . isn't about *pleasing*, what is it? Did you get to the end because you were instructed to, or because it was something YOU wanted to do, for yourself?

agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but...,

fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that.

yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it.

i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit.

i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely.

if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

lally,

I shall ponder this problem!

CP

stop pondering and go out and get someone to make you do all the stuff you wouldn't do on your own

let him do all the pondering

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but...,

fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that.

yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it.

i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit.

i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely.

if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

lally,

I shall ponder this problem!

CP

stop pondering and go out and get someone to make you do all the stuff you wouldn't do on your own

let him do all the pondering

hows about taking some of youre own advice osf - pardon??, not so easy to find someone just like that - oh sorry and there was me thinking the place was chock full of compatable folk, not five minutes from youre door. [8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but...,

fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that.

yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it.

i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit.

i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely.

if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

lally,

I shall ponder this problem!

CP

stop pondering and go out and get someone to make you do all the stuff you wouldn't do on your own

let him do all the pondering

hows about taking some of youre own advice osf - pardon??, not so easy to find someone just like that - oh sorry and there was me thinking the place was chock full of compatable folk, not five minutes from youre door. [8|]

but you live in england

and i'm working on it but she has to be acceptable to my goose

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but...,

fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that.

yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it.

i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit.

i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely.

if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

lally,

I shall ponder this problem!

CP

stop pondering and go out and get someone to make you do all the stuff you wouldn't do on your own

let him do all the pondering

hows about taking some of youre own advice osf - pardon??, not so easy to find someone just like that - oh sorry and there was me thinking the place was chock full of compatable folk, not five minutes from youre door. [8|]

but you live in england

and i'm working on it but she has to be acceptable to my goose

what has england got to do with anything. 100 miles to london is still 100 miles when all is said and done - theres a guy in scotland i like, he's 500 miles away, another one in bath who is 70 miles away and another one in the north, another one somewhere in a caravan, he talks to ents ([:)]) another one whose moved and ive no idea where he is right now and after all that choice im still no closer to making up my mind about my exSir.

you have a fussy goose. well i can relate to that [:)] they can be very disparaging and hoity toity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2



i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

If getting to the end *because they wish/expect you to do so* . isn't about *pleasing*, what is it? Did you get to the end because you were instructed to, or because it was something YOU wanted to do, for yourself?

agirl

i wanted to get to the end because i didnt want to dissappoint. im not sure thats the exact same thing as pleasing. yes pleasing in that they got to the end of the session and i didnt cave. pleasing in the sense that my submission was sufficiently 'there' for them to get a kick from it. in that sense i pleased them and they were proud of me.

maybe its mental semantics [:D] but my thoughts were more along those lines than whether or not i was being pleasing. the fact that i did please is more theyre feeling than my eventual goal at the time. though yes, of course, pleasing them is ultimately where its at.

to be honest being all snotty, sweaty, panda eyed and snivelling isnt, in my view, all that attractive a look. [:)] - so in there is the whole humiliation of being rendered down to the mess i fantasise about. how i got there in my fantasy is different to the reality, the sexual gratification that my fantasy gives me is always absent in reality.

and yet i want to provide pleasure, of course, there would be zero point if i didnt. but that wanting to please isnt what keeps me there in the end. to start with yes, by the end its all about hanging in there because they want me to.

[:)] so they want me to, i do, therefore i please. yep, lol, i get it, but the driver at the time isnt sexual, isnt about being pleasing, its about struggling to give in a way that renders me completely vulnerable. the fact that my vulnerability has never been abused is what makes it beautiful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2



i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so.

so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds.

If getting to the end *because they wish/expect you to do so* . isn't about *pleasing*, what is it? Did you get to the end because you were instructed to, or because it was something YOU wanted to do, for yourself?

agirl

i wanted to get to the end because i didnt want to dissappoint. im not sure thats the exact same thing as pleasing. yes pleasing in that they got to the end of the session and i didnt cave. pleasing in the sense that my submission was sufficiently 'there' for them to get a kick from it. in that sense i pleased them and they were proud of me.

maybe its mental semantics [:D] but my thoughts were more along those lines than whether or not i was being pleasing. the fact that i did please is more theyre feeling than my eventual goal at the time. though yes, of course, pleasing them is ultimately where its at.

to be honest being all snotty, sweaty, panda eyed and snivelling isnt, in my view, all that attractive a look. [:)] - so in there is the whole humiliation of being rendered down to the mess i fantasise about. how i got there in my fantasy is different to the reality, the sexual gratification that my fantasy gives me is always absent in reality.

and yet i want to provide pleasure, of course, there would be zero point if i didnt. but that wanting to please isnt what keeps me there in the end. to start with yes, by the end its all about hanging in there because they want me to.

[:)] so they want me to, i do, therefore i please. yep, lol, i get it, but the driver at the time isnt sexual, isnt about being pleasing, its about struggling to give in a way that renders me completely vulnerable. the fact that my vulnerability has never been abused is what makes it beautiful.

"maybe its mental semantics but my thoughts were more along those lines than whether or not i was being pleasing. the fact that i did please is more theyre feeling than my eventual goal at the time. though yes, of course, pleasing them is ultimately where its at."



Is what you're saying a case of ...... * I take the beating because I want to please him, or at least not disappoint him  and I ALSO want to get to the place where I'm *that mess*....?

Isn't this a mutual back-rub? You're providing him with something and he's doing the same.

Is your *struggling to give in a way that renders me completely vulnerable* .....something you're doing/wanting for yourself or something that's being asked of you? You want to be that *vulnerable mess* you think about and , let's face it , you can't get that on your own.

agirl




at first i want to take pain to please yes. but i dont need to take the level of pain that turns me into a mess. thats too much. i have, and on the occasions that i have it has ended up with a deeper sense of catharsis, but, to get there isnt something i would choose to go through simply for the catharsis.

the times that i have it has been very much the case that the M decided they would take me there and because of the dynamic i was in, i went. as the sub of a sadist who liked to watch me struggle it was at first to please, then it became a huge struggle. if the struggle is something i feel i need - at the time it doesnt feel like that at all. it hurts and i dont process pain terribly well. the struggle is real enough, the mess is real enough and is all far removed from the horny fantasies i have.

the question is why do i do it, why do i go along with it, why does any sub who isnt a full-on masso go through it. i think missokyst has basically hit the nail on the head by saying that i am a masso, that i dont need to enjoy pain to get something out of it. but it isnt sexual and it isnt pleasant. it must settle something inside of me and it must satisfy some thing i need that makes me drawn more to sadists than non-sadists.

so ill go with missokyst on this one.[:)]

interestingly my fantasies have survived reality and continue to do so. i did think at one time that i would be 'cured' of this if i just met the thing head on and fulfilled my fantasies. but im far from 'cured' [:D] - having said that i could be celibate for the rest of my life and never need it again. doubly interestingly though is that at one point i considered a vanilla, but the moment i started thinking about that i started considering the liklihood of needing some sadism from him. so for me its either celibacy or an M.

i think Ds and Ms are all about rubbing each others back - its about symbiosis, matching personality and interests and going from there.