pondering again....

pondering again.... (Full Version)

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lally2 -> pondering again.... (12/28/2009 4:26:08 AM)
when i first started out i was a little afraid that the fantasies that id enjoyed would be destroyed by reality. that hasnt happened at all, but..., fantasy and reality are far different for me and its made me think a little bit about that. yesterday at my mums i was reading an article about proDommes. all of them without exception say that it s not in the least bit sexual for them. it is in their personality makeup to be Domme, they love to be sadistic, they get huge pleasure from what they do but they are in no way turned on by it. i would say the same from my perspective. in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on. in reality, in the same situation, but for real, the pain required to get me to the heaving, sobbing mess i fantasise about is phucking awful. i struggle and dread each blow and yet i need it. and i am not turned on by it in the least little bit. i used to think it was all tied up in Ms for me. but in retrospect ive taken a mother of a beating from people who were not my Masters and reached the same catharsis. and i have taken serious beatings from men who are my Masters in one form or another and in the end, by the end its got phuck all to do with pleasing them and everything to do with getting to the end because they expect/wish me to do so. so what the hell is it! - if it isnt sexual and it isnt Ms or Ds. i accept for some that it is sexual and it is Ms or Ds for them. but for me it isnt sexual and it doesnt have to be tied up in Ms and i suspect there must be one or two here that feel the same, i cant be the only one surely. if its just sadism and massochism and nothing more then what is the drive to inflict suffering and take suffering -as a non-masso it is something ive often pondered over.

Level -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 4:42:44 AM)
You mention reaching some sort of "catharsis"; what do you mean, and what does that do for you?

lally2 -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 4:53:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level You mention reaching some sort of "catharsis"; what do you mean, and what does that do for you? yes! - thats the thing, but thats not what keeps me here. and i dont go into a relationship looking forward to that catharsis because i know what its gonna take to get me there. i have recently considered not doing this anymore, simply because i can achieve a level of catharsis on my own with my fantasises that do not involve pain but keep me happy. but i come back because on some level i need to express myself submissively to my partner and i need to express it through taking pain. the bdsm bit is all part of it, not the premis, but it is part of it for sure. the catharsis keeps it from being some sort of monumental martyr trip maybe - i dont know im gonna go for a walk and come back to you on that. xx [:)]

Level -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 5:00:52 AM)
Well, I do imagine you're like most people, and that there may not be an easy, cut and dried answer to a lot of this, and that's okay. It's okay to have fantasies that don't necessarily translate into satisfying real world experiences, it's okay to get some sort of catharsis from submitting, or being beaten, and it's okay to need to receive pain in order to please a partner. And it's okay to ponder! But, the catharsis: does it involve sexual pleasure for you, or is it just a release of emotion in some way?

DesFIP -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 5:30:11 AM)
Can just anyone bring you to a catharsis or do you need a special kind of connection?

lally2 -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 8:18:44 AM)
to Level: no, it doesnt. the calm and peaceful place i end up in i can manifest for myself just by going to the woods, but its not exactly the same - the bond i felt with my ex Master after a heavy session is like nothing else. its like going through every emotional and physical turmoil without the danger of real harm. its bareing all, exposing everything, being taken to the lowest denominator of self - a sobbing, heaving mess, vulnerable and helpless and being 'loved' for it. in there is wanting to please, gratify, provide release for the D. but by the end its all about struggling to give. a thought: as a service orientated s'type im wondering if the pleasure and ease i have in giving myself in ordinary ways needs to be offset with struggling to give at other times. people ask whether submission isnt infact a selfish self serving act and maybe in the sub psyche somewhere, for some, that needs to be offset by struggle too. to DesFip: no, i have to be submissive to the person doing it to me, or it doesnt work at all. but there are gradations of submission, total power exchange and temporary power exchange. i have taken a considerable hiding from someone who was not my D but i was in submission to them at that time.

Missokyst -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 8:45:31 AM)
Have you considered that you are a masochist? You do not have to love pain to be masochistic. I don't love it. But I do need it. Pain settles me, it brings me calm, it allows me to connect to a more peaceful mind space after I have survived it.

lally2 -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 8:53:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst Have you considered that you are a masochist? You do not have to love pain to be masochistic. I don't love it. But I do need it. Pain settles me, it brings me calm, it allows me to connect to a more peaceful mind space after I have survived it. hm (nods) - im begining to think thats the only explanation.. [:D] - but i dont need it. i do get that settling, calming thing afterwards, which would follow with you and i thought that masso's tended to process pain in a way that made it enjoyable to them - deeply satisfying anyway. i probably am a masso and there are probably all sorts of massos out there.

osf -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:05:31 AM)
i like the concept of sexual expression ie how we express our sexuality be that the way we sit, run, walk, and act to others it's just that for us it may be a little more complicated than for others

NihilusZero -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:14:26 AM)
So this is an issue of the final result turning you on, but not necessarily enjoying the paths it takes to get there.

lally2 -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:18:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf i like the concept of sexual expression ie how we express our sexuality be that the way we sit, run, walk, and act to others it's just that for us it may be a little more complicated than for others yes, except that im hard pressed to work out where the sexual bit comes in. up until really recently, because my BDSM fantasies are highly charged sexually i had just carried that across to the whole Ds, Ms thing that outlets BDSM as part of the whole deal. in truth, while my fantasies are sexual the reality isnt. in reality pain is painful. [:D] duh! - missokyst, may i ask does the pain turn you on.

lally2 -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:20:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero So this is an issue of the final result turning you on, but not necessarily enjoying the paths it takes to get there. no. the final result is that i feel all soothed and peaceful and then im up and about all happy to serve and please again. but sexually turned on, no.

osf -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:26:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 quote: ORIGINAL: osf i like the concept of sexual expression ie how we express our sexuality be that the way we sit, run, walk, and act to others it's just that for us it may be a little more complicated than for others yes, except that im hard pressed to work out where the sexual bit comes in. up until really recently, because my BDSM fantasies are highly charged sexually i had just carried that across to the whole Ds, Ms thing that outlets BDSM as part of the whole deal. in truth, while my fantasies are sexual the reality isnt. in reality pain is painful. [:D] duh! - missokst, may i ask does the pain turn you on. you are a sexually woman it doesn't come in, it always is

servilething -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:54:59 AM)
The way I experience it, the word that best describes it is: inflict. Maybe that is just the word I happen to associate with it, but what it means to me is specific to what I like. You can be afflicted by something, and that's just a normal ordeal. When someone else inflicts pain, that is a way for them to convey their intent for you to suffer. It shows they have the intent. They are wanting to hurt you. They want to see you suffer. They enjoy seeing you show pain. They get off acting against you and seeing your react. It is the opposite of making love. As the opposite it creates an emphatic contrast between our two behavioral guides: love and hate (pleasure and pain). To be hurt by someone you love is exquisite, while to just be hurt randomly sucks. I wouldn't want to be hurt except in a loving way. I would only want to hurt someone else if they could feel it as a loving kind of pain. There are people who have a sexual response to pain regardless of the source, but I am not one of them. I need it to be inflicted by someone I love or it's just regular pain, which I don't like at all. That is why I prefer psychological abuse and verbal abuse more. Emotional pain turns me on the same way as for some people, physical pain does.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 9:59:05 AM)
Since I don't really know you from Eve, I guess I'll just answer this the way I would to anyone who gets stuck in the mechanics. I know that many things happen when an engine works, there is compressing,there is expansion and there is all sorts of mathematics involved in why the engine keeps working. I also know I know fuck all about cars. I lift the hood and I seen and engine, something that will be awfully expensive to have someone else fix. The point with this analogy is that perhaps you are too focused on one aspect of the whole picture and this is where you are getting bewildered. Perhaps is isn't really about the beating at all or the release perhaps both of those parts are connected to something else. Perhaps that release is created from some other aspect of the whole machine working. I can be quite sadistic. I can appear mean and nasty and I can be drawn as relentless and uncaring. None of this is actaully true individually by myself, it is just the way the situations carry me. I am moved by thier reaction, they react better to certin stimuli and when their reaction peaks my own desired level of enjoyment I seek to heighten it with additional stimuli. Perhaps what you need is someone to take you in a new direction. One that you aren't controling. It would seem that you have an expectation of how things need to be and you hold yourself to that expectation. Meaning that the beating is just an aspect of the ultimate result. You feel you need to reach this specific result however the getting there is nolonger condusive to a realistic desire. So the beating isn't about anything other than a beating and there is no actual purpose behind it nor is there really any need to conect with your partner as it isn't about the partner it's about where you want to go. Maybe you might want to look at what you give to your partner and what that giving means to you. Stop focusing on the blubbering mess that you expect to be at the end when in reality you might not really need that anymore, maybe it's just part of a fantasy that no longer has a purpose. But like I said I don't know you from Eve. So mabye I'm as daft as a daffodil. Maybe there is something in the above that might help. QSM

osf -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 10:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero So this is an issue of the final result turning you on, but not necessarily enjoying the paths it takes to get there. no. the final result is that i feel all soothed and peaceful and then im up and about all happy to serve and please again. but sexually turned on, no. sam clemmons was once asked if he liked to write, his reply was he liked having written

Missokyst -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 10:09:11 AM)
Nope, it is not always enjoyable. Sometimes it freakin hurts. A couple of years ago I was stressing about family, love and money and quite by accident I stepped on a hot coal from the BBQ. That hurt! But, all the other issues just stopped being as important. It is not that pain is erotic, it is that pain is focus. Sometimes it makes me wet, sometimes it calms me down, sometimes it freakin hurts, and sometimes it makes me feel close to whoever delivered it. quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst Have you considered that you are a masochist? You do not have to love pain to be masochistic. I don't love it. But I do need it. Pain settles me, it brings me calm, it allows me to connect to a more peaceful mind space after I have survived it. hm (nods) - im begining to think thats the only explanation.. [:D] - but i dont need it. i do get that settling, calming thing afterwards, which would follow with you and i thought that masso's tended to process pain in a way that made it enjoyable to them - deeply satisfying anyway. i probably am a masso and there are probably all sorts of massos out there.

lally2 -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 10:13:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Since I don't really know you from Eve, I guess I'll just answer this the way I would to anyone who gets stuck in the mechanics. I know that many things happen when an engine works, there is compressing,there is expansion and there is all sorts of mathematics involved in why the engine keeps working. I also know I know fuck all about cars. I lift the hood and I seen and engine, something that will be awfully expensive to have someone else fix. The point with this analogy is that perhaps you are too focused on one aspect of the whole picture and this is where you are getting bewildered. Perhaps is isn't really about the beating at all or the release perhaps both of those parts are connected to something else. Perhaps that release is created from some other aspect of the whole machine working. I can be quite sadistic. I can appear mean and nasty and I can be drawn as relentless and uncaring. None of this is actaully true individually by myself, it is just the way the situations carry me. I am moved by thier reaction, they react better to certin stimuli and when their reaction peaks my own desired level of enjoyment I seek to heighten it with additional stimuli. Perhaps what you need is someone to take you in a new direction. One that you aren't controling. It would seem that you have an expectation of how things need to be and you hold yourself to that expectation. Meaning that the beating is just an aspect of the ultimate result. You feel you need to reach this specific result however the getting there is nolonger condusive to a realistic desire. So the beating isn't about anything other than a beating and there is no actual purpose behind it nor is there really any need to conect with your partner as it isn't about the partner it's about where you want to go. Maybe you might want to look at what you give to your partner and what that giving means to you. Stop focusing on the blubbering mess that you expect to be at the end when in reality you might not really need that anymore, maybe it's just part of a fantasy that no longer has a purpose. But like I said I don't know you from Eve. So mabye I'm as daft as a daffodil. Maybe there is something in the above that might help. QSM thank you. im not too tangled up with this [:)]. its something that rumbles about in my head and was reawoken when i read the article about the prodommes not being sexually driven to dominate. i am not sexually driven to submit, i submit because i am far happier in a relationship when i can frankly do so and be understood. but that calm, peaceful feeling is just as possible curled up on the sofa with the man who can beat me but isnt right then. i suppose im just realising that submission and BDSM isnt as sexual for me as i thought.

Level -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 10:17:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 to Level: no, it doesnt. the calm and peaceful place i end up in i can manifest for myself just by going to the woods, but its not exactly the same - the bond i felt with my ex Master after a heavy session is like nothing else. its like going through every emotional and physical turmoil without the danger of real harm. its bareing all, exposing everything, being taken to the lowest denominator of self - a sobbing, heaving mess, vulnerable and helpless and being 'loved' for it. in there is wanting to please, gratify, provide release for the D. but by the end its all about struggling to give. a thought: as a service orientated s'type im wondering if the pleasure and ease i have in giving myself in ordinary ways needs to be offset with struggling to give at other times. people ask whether submission isnt infact a selfish self serving act and maybe in the sub psyche somewhere, for some, that needs to be offset by struggle too. to DesFip: no, i have to be submissive to the person doing it to me, or it doesnt work at all. but there are gradations of submission, total power exchange and temporary power exchange. i have taken a considerable hiding from someone who was not my D but i was in submission to them at that time. It sounds like the pain allows you to burst through some sort of emotional barriers, perhaps, which by itself is meaningful, but you add that you are "loved for it", which makes it all the more gratifying. The beating pierces the inner core, where fear, doubt, every sort of emotion is, the things we're taught to keep to ourselves, and lets it out in a fashion, and it's accepted and valued by your partner. That's my take on it, anyway; thank you for working to share this, lally.

NihilusZero -> RE: pondering again.... (12/28/2009 10:26:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero So this is an issue of the final result turning you on, but not necessarily enjoying the paths it takes to get there. no. the final result is that i feel all soothed and peaceful and then im up and about all happy to serve and please again. but sexually turned on, no. So thinking about being in that state is a turn on, but actually being in it is just calm and peaceful? So what part of the process are you actually centering on when you say this: "in my fantasies i am turned on. i can spend ages just imagining a beating, how my bum turns red and sore and it turns me on."

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