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Malkinius -> RE: Stockholm to Lima (12/7/2009 3:56:23 AM)
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Greetings lovingpet....
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ORIGINAL: lovingpet
There have been more than a few discussions of the internal enslavement process being a consensual equivalent of Stockholm syndrome. It has been argued that a person can go so deep into submission to another as to no longer know, care, or even see the way out. This meets with all kinds of concerns, of course. It means that the dominant that intends to internally enslave another would have to be absolutely above reproach or else we are entering into abusive territory. There is the concern that if it no longer seems viable remove consent, then it is already a non consent state and the relationship is already exploitative and even abusive. Others maintain that if the submissive party enters willingly with the knowledge that internal enslavement is the goal, then no further consent beyond the initial is necessary and everything after that point is automatically covered. Others state that there simply is no such thing as FULL internal enslavement. People will say there is no way to fully erase the will and consent of another.
You are on the right track here but you are only one step down the road few have traveled. Most stop at the Stockholm Syndrome. Almost all should never go near it. To make it very clear...the Stockholm Syndrome (SS) DOES NOT produce any form of internal enslavement. It is a coping response to an intolerable condition or situation that enables someone to survive it. SS does not last after the victim is separated for even small lengths of time from their captors. By small I mean a few days. True internal enslavement can last months or even years to some degree.
That having been said, some of the things that creates SS can be used as tools for enslavement. Yes, if someone knowledgeably and willingly consents to undergo a process of enslavement then yes, what happens after that is with their consent even if they may legally withdraw that consent at any point. The ethics of the person doing this level of enslavement does matter. The reasons why they do it matter. Those things determine how safe and possibly sane someone is to be doing this. There is such a thing as can be called full Internal Enslavement (IE)...but that is not a term I would use. I call it complete surrender of will such that the slave will literally chose actions as their owner would chose them because they identify so much with their owner's will that they can think and act as their owner would command. Their own will and mind are not gone. It is an identification with another rather than a loss of mental ability and no...they are absolutely not any sort of 'doormat'.
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Arguments abound that discussing internal enslavement (a consensual process) alongside Stockholm syndrome (a non consensual process) is attempting to place consensual slavery on the same footing as slave trade that has and continues to go on in the world today. Some will say that it is silly to even compare the two. The consent issue alone separates them. Then there is also the point that, in a consensual slavery state, there is no real and immediate threat of serious injury or death that is part and parcel of forming the Stockholm bond. Whether it is necessary for there to be such a threat is hotly debated. Some believe it is the constant flip between kindness and cruelty, rather than a fear or survival element. Clearly, though, if fear and survival are key, then the comparison would seem to not hold up.
Some will argue just about everything. There is no need for any sort of threat with a willing slave to produce enslavement. SS can involve such flips, IE does not.
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All this so far has been familiar territory to many posters here.
This is very true.
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The part that I found a fascination with is the concept of Lima syndrome. For those who didn't read, basically it is a state in which the captor comes to develop emotional feelings for the captive. Now, as much as Stockholm syndrome/internal enslavement is some sort of submissive nightmare, a BDSM equivalent of Lima syndrome seems to be what many submissives hope will develop. Now, oddly enough, for some, it happens to a degree that seems to erode the dynamic. The dominant falls in love with the submissive and can no longer do those certain things that the submissive craves. On the flip side, sometimes the dominant falls in love with the submissive and craves to do those things all the more because of the deep fulfillment it gives to the submissive. Those are two vastly different outcomes from a similar process.
Both of those things are fairly well known by those who pay attention to other people...and are directly related to how couples bond and interact. It has nothing specific to do with IE or BDSM.
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I am curious to hear what the interplay of all these things might be. How does one outcome or the other develop? What makes internal enslavement taboo and a Lima state desirable? General discussion would be greatly appreciated!
lovingpet
As I said above, SS does not lead to IE. The driving mechanism that some people think drives SS can be a part of what drives IE. Check out the term 'Capture Bonding'. That is step two on the road to understanding how IE physically, biologically and psychologically works. It makes for a very interesting and surprisingly rewarding journey.
Be well....
Malkinius
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