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RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 3:41:27 PM   
MasterJack1953


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/11/2008
Status: offline 		I have been a Master for over 30 years and the one time I allowed my wife/sub to be Dom I didnt like it. so I would have to say for me no. But some Masters who were slaves first gained an insight to what it was like, and it gave them knowledge of what to do that only a slave could know.

(in reply to i3ear)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 3:54:02 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		If Master had told me he used to be a slave I highly doubt I would have gotten involved with him.

Imo if he had some kind of interest to try it in the first place I would always be wondering if he wanted to be that again and if so it would end our relationship since I have no desire to dom whatsoever and I have no desire for him to go outside to find his kink.

No I don't think you need to be a slave first to be a good Master. I don't need to put my hand on a hot stove to know it's hot. I don't need to experience parachuting to know it would make me puke at the very thought.

(in reply to GoddessImaginos)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 4:02:21 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I like this answer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No. No more than a good horse trainer has to have been a horse first.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 4:56:30 PM   
bravemax


Posts: 23
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		Agree, has to is just too prescriptive.

However never a bad idea to try the nipple clamps on yourself first.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 5:02:31 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		No I do not think so. My slave was a Master first to another, the two roles are so different. A person just needs to discover who they are and go from there.


~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to i3ear)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 5:04:05 PM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessImaginos

quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

no.
I am a dominant person. I would not make a good submissive.

I do not enjoy or get anything from pain, and discipline would not make me behave better, it would make me rebel.


Exactly what I learned about Myself the harder way, as per the above post.
Say Lady, isn't tomorrow Your wedding day..?! ;)

Off topic, yes, tomorrow at noon


_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to GoddessImaginos)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 5:20:11 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Nor the corollary that a slave ought to be a master eventually. If you are wired for one side, you won't feel what the other side feels when they are in a position they are comfortable in. A M who is acting like a slave still won't get any pleasure from pleasing their top because they aren't people pleasers.

A sadist does not have to bottom extensively either. Because if they don't enjoy pain then it doesn't matter how much they are given, they will never enjoy it.

This isn't an apprentice program where you learn how to do things. Your innate wiring has a lot to do with how you will feel in a position. And taking pain still doesn't teach you how to safely deliver it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to GoddessImaginos)
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RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 6:26:12 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: i3ear

I really am curious about other peoples experiences on the matter, it just makes sense to me.

Like, to have someone live with you under that context, you need a good amount of empathy to the slave, as well as the experience to make it work.

though who knows, I am probably wrong. :P



I came up through the ranks, as did all of the leadership in our House. For us, it's a given that, if you want to be a dedicated member of the household, you'll work your way up through the ranks. However, we have household members who aren't in the leadership pool and who are pretty darned effective Keepers, though they've never been on the other side of the kneel.

I don't think it is absolutely -necessary-, but I do think that it gives a completely different perspective on life in service if one has -been- in service. I think that, for me, it has given me some insight into some of the challenges of keeping servants... like dealing with the individuals who aren't really cut out for serving, but who are doing it as an end to a means for something else (a mate, a title, etc.). The individuals who do that have a completely different framework under which their reality is being shaped than an individual who is serving because being in service is one of the most fulfilling things xhe knows. It makes it easier for me to spot those individuals who have taken on the servant station, but who are really angling for something else... and to be able to sit them down and, provided that we're honest with one another, help them to -their- goals, instead of just pushing mine.

Having been on the other side of the kneel, I also understand some of the challenges facing the servant... dealing with conflicting instructions, struggles to adapt to a not-very-well-accepted role in relationships within our society, feelings of foundering, questioning self-worth, dealing with the questions of whether one is retaining one's own identity and being true to oneself even while yielding up everything to someone else -- and how it is even possible to do that (and it is!).

Again, I don't think it is necessary. I've had too many experiences with good authority-holders who didn't... but I do think that, if a person has the opportunity, and is inclined to immerse hirself in the experience, it can be a truly valuable chance to see both sides of the coin.

Dame Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to i3ear)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 6:33:45 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Ya know this idea that you should experience the physical sensations as a sub for me has never gone well since my skin and body feels sensations completely different from those of any man I've ever been with.

Their skin is rougher, thicker than mine. I have extremely sensitive and thinner skin. My internal workings are not going to feel the same as theirs either due to different make ups, afflictions, etc...

While that whip may only sting him a little it may flay me open. There's no way on earth he's going to feel anything near the same as me. The only way he'll know that is by trial and error with me, getting to know me, playing little by little and seeing what my body can take over time.


(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 6:37:11 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

This isn't an apprentice program where you learn how to do things. Your innate wiring has a lot to do with how you will feel in a position. And taking pain still doesn't teach you how to safely deliver it.


I'd have to disagree with this, at least to some extent. See, for some folks, it IS an apprenticeship. In our household, for example, before a person became able to be within the leadership of the household, xhe would have had to work hir way through every single aspect of the household, and know how things were done -properly-, to household standards, by having -done- them. Only once that was done would xhe be granted hir crop, and be eligible, if xhe desired, to take hir place on the council.

I think that I have to disagree with some of the folks who declare that WIITWD is 100% internal wiring. I think that it is -all- a comprehensive conglomeration of both internal interests and desires, and external experiences and perceptions. Honestly, while one may not -enjoy- one's time as a bottom, servant, etc., being in that vulnerable position definitely opens one's eyes in a whole new way to the responsibilities and issues of having individuals who lay down their lives by choice at one's feet.

I think that I am a better Keeper for having run the gauntlet. I didn't enjoy it, it was hard work, mind-shattering at times, difficult, frustrating, and growth provoking -- and, to me, the success of having gone through that allows me a measure of confidence when I speak with others who are facing their own demons in servitude, because I've already faced mine. I think, too, that it gives our servants confidence in -me-... because they know that I know from whence I speak, since I walked the same cobbles as they did. Even though how I responded may have been different, they know that I had my own insecurities and fears and struggles and impatiences... and it's been my experience that it has made it easier for them to make their own day-to-day decisions about their paths, knowing that the individual who held their charter had also survived that road.

I -like- that our leadership is forged out of apprenticeship and the particular commitment of a person who wouldn't normally -tend- that way pushing hirself beyond hir own perceived limits to learn and grow... I know it isn't for anyone, but I have to admit that it made a great deal of sense to me, which is why I went that direction. Like having a trainer in the gym, it is painful, but being in service during my apprenticeship pushed me harder than I think I could have pushed myself, and forced me to deal with demons that I'd been denying for a long time -- and would have continued to deny, had I not had my face rubbed in them every day for 4 years.

Just my two cents -- maybe not even worth the copper they're stamped on.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/17/2009 6:38:15 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 6:40:01 PM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
See, for some folks, it IS an apprenticeship.


I clipped a lot. Relevant bit... some. There is nothing saying someone HAS to, though it may work for some it isnt a universal for all


_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 6:44:13 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I like this answer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No. No more than a good horse trainer has to have been a horse first.




Why, thank you! I thought it was rather to the point myself, but I fear it may have been a little obscure for many.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 7:00:58 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I thought it was rather to the point myself, but I fear it may have been a little obscure for many.


But that's a horse of a different color.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 7:03:49 PM   
Surrenderwithin


Posts: 368
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		Not at all. My Master always responds to this question by asking if one must be a gazelle before they can become a lion. I shared the horse/ horsetrainer analogy with him and he liked that too.

Maggi

0 total NZ points, but working on that.

(in reply to i3ear)
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RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 7:07:38 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'm gonna start a new book: "The Slave Whisperer"

(in reply to Surrenderwithin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 7:13:13 PM   
Surrenderwithin


Posts: 368
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm gonna start a new book: "The Slave Whisperer"


Too funny albeit I could see that. I would read it and add it to our library.
Maggi
0 total NZ points but working on that

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 7:18:44 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: i3ear

What do you think?


No I do not, every slave is different. He needs however the be able to properly assess a situation, so having the ability to view it as a slave may see it, would be helpful

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to i3ear)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 7:21:14 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		No.
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to GoddessImaginos)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 8:03:02 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		No. The belief that this is true is the result of a myth gone awry, in Our opinion. The "Old Guard" way of learning to Top by bottoming, as a newcomer, to an experience Top has been misconstrued to mean you must be a slave to be a Master. This is due to the fact that, especially in the het world, bottoming is seen as an act that only subs and slaves do. This isn't always true... and it was never the intent of the Old Guard to imply Master/slave connotations when bottoming or Topping.

However, We do feel that serving a short amount of time might be educational, if only to show you what you are not. We found this to be true of Ourself; a weekend as a slave at a Butchmanns Experience clearly showed Us that We are a Servant Master, not a slave. We do serve, but from the role as Master.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to i3ear)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do you think a good Master has to have been a slave... - 10/17/2009 8:18:22 PM   
Ropebefun


Posts: 10
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		No, it may help to experience the other side a little, but if its not your cup of tea, then it kind of defeats the purpose of you doing it. I like the lion and gazelle comparisson.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 40
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