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RE: Humiliation - 6/21/2009 11:13:50 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do you remember that feeling when you were truly...deeply embarrassed? The hot flash and red face... the tingling of your nerves... Many people like and need to feel those reactions. After all a Dom’s job is more than just nurturing… it is to also provide pleasure... And it is pleasure to many.

Yes there is the other side of humiliation but it is no less needed or desired. Some feel a need to be humiliated… it is almost a justification for their position as a submissive… or a punishment they feel they deserve.

Still it is desired and there is nothing wrong with a Dom providing ..if they are of the mind to do it.

Butch

it's been a while since I've been that embarrassed. I've had two difference experiences with humiliation (not too many women I've been with have been into it). one was fun embarrassment like you mentioned. exhibition/public play falls into the category. I don't get embarrassed as I stopped caring a long time ago. but for someone who is more new to the game, she enjoyed it a lot. the other experience was kind of a wrecking ball attempt at getting her over certain sexual hurdles (past sexual abuse). it was one of my first meaningful interactions with a submissive woman (and I got a lot of great advice from an older domme from CM about the pros and cons for using humiliation to completely destroy someone in order to build them back up into what they want to be) and it worked out. up until that point, I had never been that emotionally sadistic to a woman and afterwards I'd never felt so responsible for another person's well being. I cared for her and fortunately our relationship helped us both out and we both learned much about ourselves, even though we weren't compatible in the long run.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 21

RE: Humiliation - 6/21/2009 11:25:51 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TANTRADD

How does this help the OP?

that sometimes humiliation can fun.

quote:

TO tell someone new to this..that you would use such tactics..
at an INTERNATIONAL CAUSE TO END SEXUAL VIOLENCE..in all its forms is really....
unbelievabally crass and sick

That you would say that you would do it in front of the
general public and those at the party which have to have survivors of abuse there is
quite frightening..and IF YOU DID IT...it is not BDSM it is
ABUSE...

oh me riding the ex around was just for fun. I don't know how long it's been since you've been to college, but there is a new clique called the professional protesters. whatever the cause, they'll protest it. be it the war in iraq, take back the night, sds, boycotting meat, boycot religious speakers, etc. it was their afterparty I attended and I know them all fairly well. they are the type of people who call their significant others partners in an impotent attempt to promote egalitarianism.

and as I said, it wasn't necessarily the general public, it was an after party of kids who wished they were old enough to be alive during the sixties so they could fellate mario savio. and how is this not bdsm? how is this abuse? I didn't feel abused. my ex didn't feel abused. I didn't ride anyone else around. we both found our little performance art (in celebration of male domination and female submission) hillarious.

quote:

If you said it all to make a point to her that she may need humiliation...to get her "depraved whore" out it is still
uncalled for...........

oh then you don't even want to hear what I have planned for a production of the vagina monologues.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to TANTRADD)

Post #: 22

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 7:10:25 AM

abuddingdom

Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline

I'm a longtime fan of humiliationplay but not the real thing - I personally dont believe thats what D/s is about. I've seen Dom's(though curiously no Domme's, so far) publically get into it with their submissive's but it comes off, to me, as power trip rather than power exchange. I feel the same re "funishment", but not real punishment, which could be a whole other topic for discussion(&likely has been in these forums). It isnt what this is supposed to be about. & prinsexx beat me to it - I was going to say that after a childhood &adulthood of being around&in vanilla relationships & only being first around&then being in this lifestyle for less than 3 years, from what I've observed that there's more humiliation dealt out & endured" over there". I've seen countless relationships in which cheating occurs with the cheatee & everyone else knowing it&that's always seemed humiliating to me. Thats an extreme example, but I do feel there's more humiliation going on in many unhealthy vanilla marriages& LTR's. Its just more covert, so to speak....

(in reply to variation30)

Post #: 23

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 7:46:30 AM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

they are the type of people who call their significant others partners in an impotent attempt to promote egalitarianism.

and as I said, it wasn't necessarily the general public, bdsm? how is this abuse? I didn't feel abused. my ex didn't feel abused.
where did you say that?..I saw the words APPALLED
MFA students

we both found our little performance art (in celebration of male domination and female submission) hillarious.
I am sure you 2 did

oh then you don't even want to hear what I have planned for a production of the vagina monologues.
.. invading private space designed to
reclaim , educate....... to celebrate women?
Can you explain your view on this??
Is this a protest thing too?

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 6/22/2009 7:50:03 AM >

(in reply to variation30)

Post #: 24

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 8:54:08 AM

abuddingdom

Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline

After posting a couple hours ago my brief thought(sparked by prinsexx's comment) re the types of "covert" humiliation often taking place in unhealthy vanilla relationships(especially longterm ones), I've been led to think , not for the first time so reminded may be a better word, that so often there's a dominant& a submissive type even in the most extremely vanilla relationships.& I dont use the word "vanilla" with disdain btw.... I've known many couples who claim strongly that they're partners but in reality they're in an endless sub-conscious struggle between the 2 of them to achieve&maintain dominance. The d & s word are never spoken & may never even be thought, but the struggle goes on(& on&on&on). Not for me. Gives me the shakes just thinkin about it......

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

Post #: 25

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 9:08:20 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

I desire a Master who could provide a kind and nurturing enviorment I have browsed and found many that express that same desire, but then their profile lists activities revolving around humiliation. would someone please explain how activities involving humilation could possibly equate to nurturing and caring?

i won't presume to speak for any other submissive but here goes.
There are a few psychological dynamics involved in what makes me want humiliation and accept it as a form of play and as part of a dynamic.
Firstly i think i was socialised to accept humiliation as normal. My mother in particular always used mixed messaging even when praising me as a child. She would say stuff like: oh you can do better, or I am so proud of what i have done for her, or what's THAT look on your face for. Not overtly humiliating but always with the intention of a put down as part of the praise.
Secongly: i don't objectify my worthiness. Now this often comes across as me looking as though i feel unworthy but that is not the case. i simply do not objectify my achievements out there in the world but just get on and operate from inside, always wanting to achieve more and 'prove' mtself to others. I suppose this need stems from my socialisation. So this means that i will almost never, (i have thought about this0 put my worth above a partner's and so i am easy picking for a dominant wanting to establish a dynamic. My problems stem from being powerful in the world (outside of the bdsm part of my life0 and a dominants need to bring me to his feet. It's a mind set for two isn't it. Humiliation is a powerful tool in bringing me to my knees.
I am also both a physical and emotional masochist. The lines between emotion and physicality are blurred for me anyway; one experience very much creating the other and so on. I have my wires crossed between pain/humiliation and pleasure/sexuality. For me the only balm for physical pain is sex. The only balm for humiliation is acceptance and security (ie collar or other expression of ownership). Humiliation is therefore a prefferred route for me to get me what i need.
Humiliation is also for me an expression of intimacy. I mean if he can call me all those names and put me through all that degradation then he must really accept me? like me? love me?
And finally.. wanting to make a dominant feel happy, cared for, pleasured, powerful, strong and in control is what gives me most pleasure. It's a form of service. What better way than to internalise the humiliation and crawl like a dog begging for forgiveness?
It's not like i really believe i did all those terrible things. But they were done to me once and it's fun now to be able to consent to playing with it all.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to justme1980)

Post #: 26

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 10:30:04 AM

ChainedExistence

Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline

Obviously you need to find someone who meets your needs, but equating a Dom who performs humiliating "acts" to one who is unloving and unnurturing isn't necessarily accurate. My Dom and I frequent engage in humilation play. Truthfully, I need it. I was raised in a very conservative family and for me to open up and not let all that baggage interfere, I need to be taken down a bit to my "core" sexual self. Believe me, there is not a moment that goes by that I don't think my Dom doesn't love and cherish me, he just knows how to push my buttons!

(in reply to justme1980)

Post #: 27

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 10:52:23 AM

FawneTwo

Posts: 98
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abuddingdom

re the types of "covert" humiliation often taking place in unhealthy vanilla relationships(especially longterm ones), but in reality they're in an endless sub-conscious struggle between the 2 of them to achieve&maintain dominance. The d & s word are never spoken & may never even be thought, but the struggle goes on(& on&on&on). Not for me. Gives me the shakes just thinkin about it......

Good point a.b.d. Not for me either. People don't know the harm they "innocently" cause. Sad and sickening, isn't it?.

quote:

ORIGNINAL: Prinsexx

Humiliation is also for me an expression of intimacy. I mean if he can call me all those names and put me through all that degradation then he must really accept me? like me? love me?

i feel this way too, Prinsexx. Its an opposition. For instance; if master can express the forbidden, a dark fantasy [ not that he or she doesn't 'feel' this way however] the juxaposition is often true.

The Owner [ whatever, OK?] is expressing how much they value the property [ slave, beaux, whatever] by acting out 'destruction'
Got to really care to be that nasty.

quote:

finally.. wanting to make a dominant feel happy, cared for, pleasured, powerful, strong and in control is what gives me most pleasure. It's a form of service.

To each their own. I wouldn't feel comfortable if generic HE - needed to knock me down PERSONALLY in order to feel BIG.

On the other hand, I can understand a man who gets off by degrading 'me' as a symbolic 21 century American woman.
I can deal with that. i enjoy playing a pure object, or objectifacation [ tough to find words to explain...]

Intimacy is almost a whole 'nother topic. Humilation can be intensely intimate with the right person
Interesting topic

< Message edited by FawneTwo -- 6/22/2009 11:13:12 AM >

(in reply to abuddingdom)

Post #: 28

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 12:07:02 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FawneTwo

quote:

finally.. wanting to make a dominant feel happy, cared for, pleasured, powerful, strong and in control is what gives me most pleasure. It's a form of service.

To each their own. I wouldn't feel comfortable if generic HE - needed to knock me down PERSONALLY in order to feel BIG.

Yes but that's not it. Consent gives a double take to it all. If it's part of the dynamic then it's AGREED he wants to knock you down to feel big and what you say here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FawneTwo
On the other hand, I can understand a man who gets off by degrading 'me' as a symbolic 21 century American woman.
I can deal with that. i enjoy playing a pure object, or objectifacation [ tough to find words to explain...]

well i'm THE PRINSEXX, Taking me down, well i sure hope it makes the dom feel powerful.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to FawneTwo)

Post #: 29

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 12:24:42 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

I desire a Master who could provide a kind and nurturing enviorment I have browsed and found many that express that same desire, but then their profile lists activities revolving around humiliation. would someone please explain how activities involving humilation could possibly equate to nurturing and caring?

I can't explain HOW they can be..but they CAN be. It would be like trying to explain the intricate workings of our relationship...No matter how I type it , it sounds so close to how a complete ignorant arse might behave. And yet it isn't......It's a complicated set of circumstances that is based in being VERY much aware of what is occurring and why.

I like *feeling* all the range of feelings I have....I like *feeling* them with HIM....The reason I CAN is because he's rock solid. I have the opportunity to *feel* humiliation, fear, helplessness and a host of other feelings because......... A) He is able to DO that. B) He built enough trust that I'm not only able , but willing.C) It's a thrilling and deeply intimate experience and we both feel the same way regarding it.

It's a place that we went to together, through discovery and over a long time...It was never planned. Like most aspects of our relationship, it evolved into what it now is.

agirl

(in reply to justme1980)

Post #: 30

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 2:50:01 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN

.. invading private space designed to
reclaim , educate....... to celebrate women?
Can you explain your view on this??
Is this a protest thing too?

as I'm buying a ticket, I'm not invading private space. if I, or my women, do anything inappropriate, they can ask us to leave and we will.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

Post #: 31

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 3:25:08 PM

FawneTwo

Posts: 98
Status: offline

Prinsexx: " wanting to make a dominant feel happy, cared for, pleasured, powerful, strong and in control is what gives me most pleasure. It's a form of service"

You're right. If I consent to it ( and i'd bet i would) HE can feel any way he ...feels.

agirl: "I can't explain HOW they can be..but they CAN be. It would be like trying to explain the intricate workings... "

Intricate is the word and i'm nodding and shaking my head at the same time.

TY

< Message edited by FawneTwo -- 6/22/2009 3:28:39 PM >

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 32

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 3:30:35 PM

ACryFromTheSoul

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline

To the OP: One of the things that I had to learn is that there is a difference between humiliation and embarrassment.

For me: embarrassment is something designed to make a submissive feel worse about themselves. By pulling from areas of insecurities, painful memories and/or fears and placing a submissive into a situation that has the potential to wreck havoc their self esteem is something that I see as destructive/harmful.

The difference is as I see it, if done correctly is humiliation is not designed to be an emotionally painful experience for the submissive, if anything the complete opposite is true.

Let me explain-- from my experience humiliation is: when a dominant sees inside a submissive to their deepest darkest cravings that they themselves won’t admit to having. And a good dominant will slowly pull out these cravings, exposing them, making the submissive admit that they crave them, and have the submissive beg for that one thing that they crave/ that they don’t want to admit to wanting. Then the dominant has the submissive perform that particular act, and afterwards pushes the submissive to admit that they loved it and that they want more.

From experience: humiliation if done correctly is a wonderful eye opening experience that can be an area of growth, it is an area of vulnerability, and a way in which the submissive and dominant can become closer. It is where a submissive can learn that when they expose such a craving to a dominant, that they will be take care of and that they won’t be emotionally/mentally harmed in the process.

So to answer your question, while I don’t believe that embarrassment could ever be considered nurturing or caring, humiliation if done correctly I believe can be considered to just that.

< Message edited by ACryFromTheSoul -- 6/22/2009 4:01:58 PM >

(in reply to FawneTwo)

Post #: 33

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 4:59:52 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I don't do humiliation and degradation but that's because of me not being able to handle it. For those who can do it, they say that to be seen as solely a fucktoy may be humiliating in the moment, but being loved for being able to get to that level makes them stronger after.

As far as Variations, that was just plain rude. As bad as invading your mother's birthday party and pissing on the cake. Why don't you do that instead or have your sub come nude except for clothespins to your grandmother's 80th birthday? It isn't art, it was a private party not an open arena, and it just shows bad manners. Plus it's cowardly on your part to not do so in a venue where you have something to lose, like your family's love and support instead of attacking random outsiders who can't do anything to redeem their evening.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to cagliostro)

Post #: 34

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 5:04:01 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Humiliation is an art. But then so is resilience.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 35

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 7:24:03 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Humiliation is an art. But then so is resilience.

so is knitting.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 36

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 9:34:53 PM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

as I'm buying a ticket, I'm not invading private space. if I, or my women, do anything inappropriate, they can ask us to leave and we will.

I see...thank you for answering..I appreciate your honesty..

GQ

(in reply to variation30)

Post #: 37

RE: Humiliation - 6/22/2009 10:04:05 PM

janiebelle

Posts: 332
Joined: 4/29/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ACryFromTheSoul
Let me explain-- from my experience humiliation is: when a dominant sees inside a submissive to their deepest darkest cravings that they themselves won’t admit to having. And a good dominant will slowly pull out these cravings, exposing them, making the submissive admit that they crave them, and have the submissive beg for that one thing that they crave/ that they don’t want to admit to wanting. Then the dominant has the submissive perform that particular act, and afterwards pushes the submissive to admit that they loved it and that they want more.

From experience: humiliation if done correctly is a wonderful eye opening experience that can be an area of growth, it is an area of vulnerability, and a way in which the submissive and dominant can become closer. It is where a submissive can learn that when they expose such a craving to a dominant, that they will be take care of and that they won’t be emotionally/mentally harmed in the process.

So to answer your question, while I don’t believe that embarrassment could ever be considered nurturing or caring, humiliation if done correctly I believe can be considered to just that.

With all due respect, ACFTS, I can't embrace this definition. If humiliation is what you describe, then I am simply impossible to humiliate. Once a man exposes heretofore unknown cravings, I embrace them. There is no shame for me in the craving/exposing/admitting/begging of a desire that he wishes to bring out into the light. And if after the act I liked it, I don't need a push to admit it.

While I can't give a blanket definition of what humiliation is to me, this is not it. I have been humiliated. It does nothing good for me. And like the old saying goes "I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I [feel] it". And I don't like it. No how. No way. No Sir.

Embarrassment, on the other hand, happens all the time to me. That burning in the cheeks. The flush of the neck. The "OMG, this man sees into my brain" feeling...embarrassing. But not at all icky.

Oh well, like so many other things for us...to each his own.
j

(in reply to ACryFromTheSoul)

Post #: 38

RE: Humiliation - 6/23/2009 4:07:48 AM

ACryFromTheSoul

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline

I happen to be very shy/reserved, and therefore have a harder time admitting that I loved something that I previously could not admit to/did not know it was an interest of mine.

So for me begging for something that I wouldn't normally ask for, having it happen and admitting that I loved it is goes against my grain. Which for me can be a very humiliating experience, hitting the very core of my being.

but then again, as you said to each their own.. soft smile

< Message edited by ACryFromTheSoul -- 6/23/2009 4:13:04 AM >

(in reply to janiebelle)

Post #: 39

RE: Humiliation - 6/23/2009 6:09:46 AM

kuriouswitch

Posts: 325
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline

well for Master and I, during our down time Master is very caring and nurturing. He makes sure I'm doing okay, that things are too off kilter that day ect. but if He's using me he'll use humiliation techniques such as making me beg or sometimes bark or calling me names like whore or slut ect. What he does while he uses me is completly different than how we normally interact, and it's not bad, I enjoy it from Master and I also know that he doesn't mean what he says at those times. It's just something that he enjoys doing and I enjoy it as well, humiliation doesn't mean he doesn't love me, its just a type of "play" for that moment in time.

(in reply to justme1980)

Post #: 40

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