The Automatic Switch (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 6:46:00 PM)

I've seen a particular comment on a few threads recently.  There seems to be a new revolution going on around the boards.  It's something I'm beginning to call "The Automatic Switch."

Where does this come up you might ask?  Well, it seems to stem from the confusion between orientation and activity.  It comes to the tune of the oddest music.  Someone being Dominant, but liking certain sensations that can be received during play.  Oh, that must mean the person is a switch!  A submissive who is a take charge person at her job?  Again, she must be a switch!  All kinds of things external to role, but nothing actually based on the mindset of the person.

Now, before I go too far off into My tangent, let Me make My position clear.  If you are a switch, and that is the way you chose to describe yourself, wonderful!  Everybody should be happy with who they are and what they are doing.  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being a switch if that is the best description of you.

What I am ranting about is this trend that seems to be happening where certain folks will label another person as a switch because they might be a submissive who, it just so happens, they like to Top, or a Dominant who knows enough about anatomy to realize that pleasure can be derived through anal stimulation.  I'll make My apology now, but the truth of the matter is, the only person anyone gets to determine their role or orientation about, is themselves. 

So, in My belief that it is better to be part of the solution than just complaining about it, I am starting this thread.  This is everyone's opportunity to educate those who might be uneducated, and help those who may not be familiar with all of the variations that people in this lifestyle can be.

Share your stories.  If you are a sub who has a part of your life that isn't always linked as submissive, I'd like to hear about it.  If you're a Dom(me) who practices certain things that are different, I want to hear about that, too.

Maybe the thread can cease the automatic assumption that, just because someone likes something, or they play a certain way, or they have their own ideas, people don't automatically get to label them as a switch.



Juliannadelion -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 6:50:34 PM)

HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!  I totally agree!!  Thanks for putting it so well dear Lady! [:D]



Lynnxz -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 6:57:46 PM)

I think some of the reluctance to label oneself a switch might stem from people being generally unsupportive of switches in general.

I've seen it stated more than once that Switches are confused... on the fence... just trying to get laid... faking it... It is pretty likely that people picked up on that attitude, and decided it wasn't such a great idea to be a Switch.





Knite064 -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:21:56 PM)

I know ive thrown in "masters day off" in past relationships where everything will be completely vanilla with any of our normal protocols set aside for the day and everything being 100% vanilla.
This was done for two reasons 1)to allow us both time to recharge batteries.and 2)and more importantly i want to know every facet of my girl and just hanging out with vanilla friends as boyfriend / girlfriend only enhances the relationship with the girl that otherwise kneels at my feet.(the submissive is only a part of the person and whilst i would view it as a personal failure if a girl did nt behave naturally around me there is always that little bit extra when protocols are set aside).....i get an equal kick when the metaphorical collar is placed back on the next day though.

I dare say for some its not time off that works but a role reversal and whilst it would nt work for me i have to say more power to them for being themselves.



LadyPact -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:22:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I think some of the reluctance to label oneself a switch might stem from people being generally unsupportive of switches in general.



As I said in the original, I have no issue with anyone who labels themselves as a switch.  I say more power to them.  What bothers Me is other people choosing to label someone as such, when that person doesn't feel that is who they really are.



DavanKael -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:31:05 PM)

Hi, LadyPact----
Cool premise for a thread.  :> 
I think that many are loathe to label themselves switches for many of the same reasons that many will not identify as bi-; much like Lynnxz said, many believe those are fence-walker orientations. 
A number of thoughts on this as I do endeavor to use terms correctly.  I used to simply not use the terms top or bottom and went with either dominant, switch, or submissive (rarely used the term slave).  I still am not terribly comfortable with integrating all of those terms at times, though I understand the distinctions.  Sometimes, I think that people are apt to hang on to disclaiming behaviors via using top and bottom when their description of motives does seem more switch-ey than strictly dominant or submissive.  I will admit a bias to thinking that more people are switches and bi- than say so for the afore-mentioned negative-association reasons, etc.  I am sure that in some threads, I have made the query as to switch status over certain behaviors ('Cause it could be valid) while also staunchly defending things like being submissive and fucking a Dominant male in the ass with a strap-on (An act I admit a particular love for, regardless of the side of kneel or lack there-of of the male, as long as they're someone special to me) with the disclaimer that I do default to it being a Dominant act for me to fuck a man in the ass though I can grab my skull-set and make it otherwise. 
I favor a more inclusive terminology when self-defining and don't personally agree with alterations of orientation.  As an example: I prefer to be submissive with males in relationships (Although I have certainly been dominant in relationships with males), though I can top or bottom.  With a female, me being dominant and top is all I contemplate as acceptable.  Thus, I believe that self-defining as a switch is most accurate and inclusive.  As far as self-defining as bi-, I've had a sexual experience with a female (One) and find certain females and female attributes sexually appealing (In particular, breasts and occasionally more), thus, according to the Kinsey scale, that makes me bi-.  I am one of those people who takes the unpopular view of 'if you've had sexual relations with someone of the same sex, you are not straight', and I will fully admit the instance I experienced, I was 'taking one for the team' and had I been asked to reciprocate I would have likely tossed cookies.  One can get into all sorts of qualifications but for me, going with the more inclusive terms keeps things on a more even keel. 
I do think that there is more flexibility in the D/s/s debate than the straight/gay/bi debate, at least from my perspective.  I agree with you about intent related to D/s/s orientations.  I think the reason I am more rigid on one aspect as opposed to the other is the matter of behaviors and intent (Which aren't always straight-up tangible) where-as, to me (And, yes, likely to flames from some, I know) body parts are body parts and the tangibility is there no matter. 
Hopefully that makes sense; going back to writing some reports (Boring!) and will look forward to seeing how this thread unfolds.  :> 
  Davan



Andalusite -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:33:49 PM)

If someone is a sadistic submissive, or a masochistic dominant, or someone who likes topping and bottoming without any D/s at all, I consider those to be variants of switches. I agree that sexual activity/anal/etc. doesn't mean that someone is a switch, and roles at work have nothing to do with D/s unless they are a pro-Domme or pro-sub.



Lynnxz -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:34:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I think some of the reluctance to label oneself a switch might stem from people being generally unsupportive of switches in general.



As I said in the original, I have no issue with anyone who labels themselves as a switch.  I say more power to them.  What bothers Me is other people choosing to label someone as such, when that person doesn't feel that is who they really are.



I didn't mean to imply that you had an issue with switches- sorry, my wording is all wonky this week I think.



catize -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:49:48 PM)

quote:

 Share your stories.


R. enjoys pain sometimes.  I’m not a sadist but am willing to follow his directions on ways he wants me to give him pain.  It’s kind of funny because while I am submitting to his directions, his dominant and sadistic side also kicks in. Because I’m so worried what he might do to me if I screw it up, he very much enjoys my ‘sweating it’!   
Since I ‘get’ the pain/pleasure link (being a masochist, and all), it is very easy for me to understand that [gasp] other people like it too!  It’s a sensation!  That would be like saying I’m not really masochistic because I also enjoy tender caresses.    
 
 When I am dealing with work, family and friends, as well as the public, I may not be dominant, but I am comfortable asserting myself and taking the lead.  To my way of thinking, that is survival out in the big bad world.  How would I ever get out of bed, get out of my driveway, or even the line in the grocery store if I ‘submitted’ to the world?   Nor do I see how that cancels my submission to my intimate partners.



SassySarijane -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 7:51:00 PM)

Thank you LadyPact for this thread. A lot of people would label me a switch (and a few have tried to) because I have an interest in topping and have a couple of times co topped. I know who and what I am. I am a submissive and masochist with a slight sadistic streak and an interest in topping occasionally if one wants to get technical lol.

The reason I don't label as switch is because I don't have dominant tendencies or interest, otherwise I actually would label that way. For me personally switch is about both the scene role and the dynamic role. Dominant and submissive tendencies as well as topping and bottoming or both sadism and masochism. I know not everyone sees it like that and that's cool. I'm just weighing in with my own personal view of it.



Andalusite -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 8:11:18 PM)

SassySarijane, if someone doesn't want me to call them a switch, if they want to identify as an occasionally sadistic submissive or whatever, that's fine, I'll call them that, just like I'll call them "Master So-and-so" when I reply to their posts, but I still think of it as switching whether or not there is any D/s involved in general. I'll go along with their self-labelling, but I still think it's kind of silly. Besides, there are plenty of people who switch without any D/s involved at all.



CrazyCats -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 8:17:44 PM)

I've known quite a few switches, and I have known (and dated) more than a few "alpha subs/slaves" that are generally take charge in their 'normal' lives, and very submissive in the bedroom.

I am a laid back, middle of the road, balanced type of guy most of the time, but I love being aggressive when it comes to play time. It's the time when that beast in the corner of my soul gets freed. It's simply how it works for me. It's all about provoking a reaction, knowing that I have an impact on another. (Usually taken literally, but I tend to like the emotional impact more.) Does this desire for emotional connection, being calm and even tempered, does that sound like a submissive? Sometimes it does, and many people take me for one at first. (Especially if I am depressed, but hey, who isn't at least a little submissive when they feel down?)

People are complex. (Otherwise, I would have long ago got really bored with y'all) It is impossible to slap a label on someone and have it encompass their entire being. Unfortunately it is easy to slap labels on people, and too many people forget that labels are just convenient shorthand that refers to a more complex reality.



SassySarijane -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 8:18:35 PM)

And that's fine. You have your view and belief and I have mine. We go with what works for us individually.

I agree with a comment made somewhere that was  something to the effect that the only person you can truly, accurately label is yourself because only you really know you fully. No one else can know you as completely as you know yourself.



feydeplume -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 8:42:27 PM)

Alpha slave and Switch are often used and totally undefined terms, to my mind since each person I ask has a completely different answer. And yet, the two get compared alot which kinda makes me wonder what the link, if any, there is between being able to give and receive, to appreciate and humiliate.

I am glad that people are willing at accept on a surface level other people's self identification, but sort of sad that some feel the need to define those same people by other terms in their own minds. IF you aren't trying to get into their pants or mind, what does it matter to you what they call themselves and why not go with the definition that they use?

Waaaay back when switch was the state of development between being a full time bottom and a full time top or that thing on the wall that makes the lights go on and off. Then I learned about d/s switches that had no or little SM in their interactions. That took me a bit to understand, but i got there. Then i learned that some switch only in d/s but are always one or the other in bdsm (not counting ds to mean d/s), and THAT took some time to sort in my mind. In the end, if someone introduces themselves to me by a name and a label, i use that name and label to identify them and don't even try to remake them to fit some other sorting system in my head. It is their sex life after all, and unless i want to do naughty things with them, the details of how and where and when they like to do X or Y or Z doesn't really matter in our interactions.

TO all the self proclaimed switches out there, you rock and you just keep on doing what you do so well. And thank the dungeon gods that you folks exist, because so many evenings would have been a bust if you folks hadn't been able to step up and work both sides of the whip and the brain fuck. Thanks as well for the bridge you make between the two extreme camps "always only T or D or B or S.

Besides, switches are just about the easiest people to get naked EVER. woot!



pyreashes -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 9:02:10 PM)

I've never labled anyone else as a switch, becouse they either liked topping or bottoming sometimes, but I went through a period of time where I thought -I- might be a 'switch'.  Simply becouse I do like topping anouther submissive on occasion, and I do feel rather 'dominant' when I'm doing so.  However, that's only during play, and otherwise, I have a far more submissive personality.

So, after some close examination of myself, I decided that I'm not a 'switch', just a submissive that enjoys topping once in a while.  And that that was ok!*Chuckles*

I tend to view many things, including bdsm and sexual orientation for that matter, as a spectrum.  There's the extreme ends of each side of it, but then the varying points in between.  Not everyone of course, but I feel that most people fall somewhere along the spectrum, rather then at either extreme end, just my personal opinion.



Sexycelticlady -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 9:03:08 PM)

I am a Switch. I initially identified as a submissive but I have very strong dominant tendancies, I top others, I am currently training a sub of my own and I am definely sadistic. But my submissive side is also a very important part of me and provides me with an inner strength and self awareness. I am not reallt bothered by what other people want to label me as, I am me and I will continue to enjoy both sides to the max. Additionally, just because I enjoy both sides, it does not mean I would switch roles with one person, I simply do not function that way. I would not dream of dominating my Sir, althought there are times when he teases me and tells me to try. :) 



crazyredhead1957 -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 9:15:13 PM)

Greetings Lady Pact,
my respects to You and, by the way, i love Your posts.  i am 100% submissive, but i used to be with a Dom that desired an activity commonly thought of as submissive.  i did it to please Him, and i enjoyed doing it because i love to please.  Since i was told to & i was pleasing Him, i saw nothing "un-submissive" about it.  At the same time, i did not consider Him any less Dominant because He enjoyed it. 



Vanityfull -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 9:18:49 PM)


in my early days coming out as queer i had a hetrosexual freind who really liked having sex with men. this really pissed me off, i refered to him as a closet case, a slut and many other wonderful things and demanded he change his sexual orentation to fit my definition. after i did some thinking on things i realised that there was more than my one view on sexuality, he viewed himself as straight as he could not see himself in a relationship with another guy and sex had nothing to with anything. my defination of gay at that time was that you have sex with other guys and little else. i think  Dom/sub/switch has a ton in common with the gay/straight/bi. the definitions are pretty easy to understand on a basic level but everyone i think has a little bit of a different definition. i think the assumption of someones sexuality is rude and just leads to trouble, if i want to identify myself as a domme right now its well within my rights to do so, granted i wouldnt fit most peoples definitions of that. if it is something me and who i am in a relationship with agree i fit as than its all thats important. sexual identification is a personal thing random jackasses can stay out of my bed if they dont like how i label myself.



crazyredhead1957 -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/16/2009 9:22:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanityfull
sexual identification is a personal thing random jackasses can stay out of my bed if they dont like how i label myself.


Well said!!



RCdc -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 3:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

SassySarijane, if someone doesn't want me to call them a switch, if they want to identify as an occasionally sadistic submissive or whatever, that's fine, I'll call them that, just like I'll call them "Master So-and-so" when I reply to their posts, but I still think of it as switching whether or not there is any D/s involved in general. I'll go along with their self-labelling, but I still think it's kind of silly. Besides, there are plenty of people who switch without any D/s involved at all.


If that is the case than the entire population are switches and the use of dominant/submissive etc are pointless words that have no basis.  Your statement is exactly the kind of mistake people make as Lady Pact mentioned in her op - people mix up orientation with an action and then feel it's ok to call or assume someone is a switch.  And that would be incorrect.
 
the.dark.



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