RE: The Automatic Switch (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 3:23:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I think some of the reluctance to label oneself a switch might stem from people being generally unsupportive of switches in general.

I've seen it stated more than once that Switches are confused... on the fence... just trying to get laid... faking it... It is pretty likely that people picked up on that attitude, and decided it wasn't such a great idea to be a Switch.



I totally agree that people do seem unsupportive of switches.  I also believe that because of this, there seems to be an outpouring of 'you must be a switch' because switches feel a minority.
I also believe that people can't get their head around someone or something that isn't easily defined so it's easier to suggest that someone is a switch.  Humans in general are lazy.  They like the easy way out.  So if you have a person on a website like this who asks how they should identify themselves the easy option is to say switch.  People don't like to be faced with confused new people.  They like to know that when they put down their search, they will get a list of experienced dominants/submissives.  It's easier to palm off a confused new participant onto the switch section and switches want to widen their search lists too.  So it's all good - seemingly.  Accept when you get down to the nitty gritty of a full on relationship and the now not-so-new has discovered their orientation and then get called a fake etc because they alter their direction.
 
I am not a switch.  It gets to the point where you get glared at like you are some anti switch hunter when you state that so directly.  I apparently must be a switch because I can swing a flogger.  Bullshit.  I couldn't dominate that person I am flogging because I don't want to.  I am submiting the entire time because I enjoy to do so.  Because I am servicing the same way as when I am making his favourite meal.  But if I say I am not a switch, some people automatically assume I must have some inherent fear of switches.  It really does however get really boring to hear how hard a time switches have over and voer again.  It honestly gets to the point where people become hesitant to state openly, that they enjoy what is conventional in BDSM circles to their opposite orientation, because it means they are in denial.  And that is just plain unfair.
 
the.dark.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 3:39:05 AM)

I enjoy posts such as this.  I'm a bit of an organic junkie when it comes to BDSM and all things with it.   I was doing a lot things before knowing there was a sub-culture for it.  Actually too many things.  Again, I'm a bit of an organic junkie when it comes to things.

People should be able to be themselves, do the things that please them, without trying to live up to stereotyped fucking notions of labels or orientations.  Then again, I'm a DOM and I can play the DOM card on this one.   I'll damn well do what pleases me. :-P






Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 3:43:35 AM)

Hello LadyPact,

I completely agree with you when you assert that actions do not denote orientation.  I've stated such numerous times.  Personally,  I like some pain inflicted on me in my play time.  I do not however like when a guy thinks he can inflict pain on me at his whim.  Oh hell no!  If you are gonna hit me, you are gonna hit me exactly where I want you to and when I want you to!  If that makes me a switch in someone elses eyes, I don't really care.  However, I won't involve myself with a person who doesn't understand my definition of Dominant and recipient of pleasure.

In my opinion, if I'm telling someone how and where to hit/bite/spank/lick/suck/whatever than I am in control, therefore, the dominant party.  Dominance is about control, no? (okay, not soley, obviously control of self, and other factors apply).  Now, if I were to suddenly start wanting someone else to call the shots and making the decisions then I'd be content labeling myself as a switch or a sub for that matter.  I just do not see that happening, so, I will continue to call myself dominant, and not give a damn what others call me.



MG4Apuppygirl -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 4:06:28 AM)

I don't think it really matters how you label yourself, but I have to say switches can be a pain in the butt at times. But then so can subbies, so can smart arsed masochists, so can dominants, and some would say so can I. At the end of the day most are just trying to figure themselves out, some have. Most of the problems I have encountered though have stemmed from an innate ability of individuals to attempt to over evaluate what is actually very simplistic. No matter what aspect of this "alternative" lifestyle" one happens to be involved in, and if someone thinks they are the only ones to have done it, then the news is sad. It has been done to death for centuries.

There is an old wives tale that you can't be a good dominant without at first being a good submissive. There seems to be a  fair amount of truth behind this and I'm sure others will argue the point, but I wonder if someone who hasn't undergone strenuous bondage or indeed a good flogging could possibly understand the thresholds of pain and bloodflow or the biological process combined with intent. There is no shame in being a switch, It is part of the growth process toward personal definition. There is also a difference between dominant and domineering. Much the same way there is a huge difference between sub and slave. The most annoying thing is that some people just can't be educated because they already know everything.          



eyesopened -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 4:15:35 AM)

dom⋅i⋅nant
adjective
1.  ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence.
2. occupying or being in a commanding or elevated position
noun
1.  Genetics
     a).  the one of a pair of alternative alleles that masks the effect of the other when both are present in the same cell or organism.  b). the trait or character determined by such an allele

The definition I found interesting as it pertains to this topic is the noun.  This would mean to me, in the context of this topic that being dominant would certainly "mask the effect of the other" (the supposedly submissive act) and unless someone identifies personally as a switch, it would seem no particular action can automatically make anyone anything.



DesFIP -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 5:44:47 AM)

People use switch to mean either enjoying both ends of sensation play - getting and receiving- or to mean both ends of power play - leading or following. There always has been confusion about which definition people are using. I don't see anything new about it.



SassySarijane -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 6:46:54 AM)

Just to add a bit more clarity to my previous posts here, the definition I gave for switch is what it would take for me to label myself a switch, not the criteria I use to judge if someone else is a switch. If someone identifies as a switch then I figure that is what they are since they know themselves more intimately than others do. I tend to go by what others identify themselves as for the most part rather than trying to make them fit what my definition labels them as.



Andalusite -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 8:01:50 AM)

I'm certainly not going to argue with someone about their identity or label of choice, that would be rude/unproductive.

In general, I consider bisexuality to include anyone who has sex with or sexual interest in people of both genders, including "forced" play, sex-only without relationships, and relationships. I consider switching to include any combination of sadism/masochism, tying someone else up/getting tied up, or Domination/submission. It doesn't necessarily involve D/s. If someone is submissive but likes occasionally topping or dominant and likes occasionally bottoming, I would tend to think of that as switching on the S/M and/or bondage areas, but not D/s, I get a little confused by them saying they aren't a switch, just like I get a little confused by guys who insist they are straight but like to suck cock, or women who are lesbian but frequently have sex with men.

If they've done it once or twice in the past, didn't like it, then sure, they tried it and decided it wasn't for them, but if it's on an ongoing basis, I find their choice of labels rather puzzling. I don't think they hate switches or bisexuals respectively if they choose not to use those labels. If someone wants to call their cocker spaniel a kitten or their goldfish a parrot, I'm likewise not going to argue with them over it, but I won't really understand their reasoning.

MG4A, I started out for 5 years as a Domme, and didn't bottom to anything during that time. In my next relationship, I both topped and bottomed, without any D/s involved, so I considered myself to be a switch. I don't think of it as a growth stage, just that I enjoy and am capable of both. :)

Darcy and the dark, I'm fine with being involved with dominants, submissives, tops, bottoms, or switches, depending on how compatible we are in other respects. I agree that people tend to use "switch" as a catch-all for "not sure yet/haven't tried it but openminded," since there isn't a separate option for that. There are plenty of people who identify as Dominant but have no real-time experience, or as submissive without any real-time experience, so I wouldn't assume that either label means that they know what they are doing.



loveandlight87 -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 9:54:52 PM)

Sir and I were having this very discussion, or at least a variant on it, just the other night.  Thank you Lady Pact!

People that watched us interact together might see both of us as very switchy.  There are not a lot of rules and protocols in our dynamic.  I actually have 4 standing orders and 4 standing permissions.  Most all of them are geared towards encouraging self expression and expression of my feelings for Sir.  He values my playfulness, oralness and need for physical contact a great deal.  So consequently, there are probably a fair number of D/s oriented folks that would see me as quite toppy, and … even dominant perhaps, because of all of the liberties I take with Sir’s body.  I don’t have to ask permission.  As a matter of fact, I might get in trouble if I did ask permission or waited for an order or invitation to do so.   It is my natural state and it pleases him greatly that I do take these liberties.  I don’t think that makes me Dominant by a long shot.  I don’t think it makes Sir submissive either.  But we definitely blur the line frequently and with breathtaking fluidity when it comes to topping and bottoming in our regular interactions.  And some might even say with the D/s aspects as well.  But, when it is scene time, I am the bottom 98% of the time.  And the brief times I am topping, while not necessarily at his specific direction, are for his pleasure.

In addition to the physical liberties I take, I am encouraged to state my thoughts, feelings and opinions freely and without any preamble.  It’s kind of a running joke that I attempt to phrase things as questions or present my thoughts and opinions in a ‘more humble’ manner and that I am ‘baby d’.  But again, Sir values my mind, creativity and opinions.  And as he says, why would he try to limit the expression of those?   He wants the fullest and most complete expression of me.  He is my Dominant and I am his submissive. 

I can comfortably top for finite intervals of time, but I am just not wired as a dominant.  I am miserable if I am consistently placed in the dominant position in most relationships.  I can even take charge of a project at work or be assertive with my family, and as someone earlier said, I don’t think that makes me dominant.  It just means that I am capable, strong and confident. 

* For clarity, I would define myself as an S/m switch (sub-leaning because I prefer the bottom even though I enjoy the top) and a D/s submissive (with maybe a smidge of Dom tendencies). 



SirSteveS -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/17/2009 10:47:18 PM)

I self-identify as a D/s switch and S/m top.  I've been in a long term relationship as spouse and domestic with one amazing woman for almost 23 years now.  In that capacity I've deferred to her because she is a powerful, intelligent and dominant person and my modeling for relationship with women was very service oriented.   This does not  mean that I need guidance and a "decider" for everything I do.  I LIKE making decisions for myself and doing things as I like them done.  It's rather annoying, actually, when I get going in a direction I've decided upon and someone (anyone) takes it upon themselves to "help".  This has led to some fairly animated exchanges over the years, but that's another story!  In my software engineering career I specialize in robotics and collecting data.  The software I write gives me complete control of a system and I like that.  Computers and machinery are my slaves and do exactly as they are told.  This isn't always pleasant, unfortunately!  I've learned a lot about my self and my thinking through the sometimes spectacular consequences of my programming decisions over the years. 

This past year has been very transformative for me for many reasons and I'm feeling far more comfortable being myself and expressing myself.   A consequence of that has been that I've felt like I needed (not wanted, needed) to be in a D/s relationship as the Dominant partner.  I have been privileged to be in relationship with My precious one for over six months now, and during that time we've experimented with numerous ways of expressing our D/s relationship.   Although I've been involved in D/s and S/m for a long time as observer and/or in limited participation, my self expression as Dominant is new.  My precious one also is new and has been exploring her own path for over a year.  It's been a learning process for us both because we entered into our relationship with a premise and have been continuously adjusting to our optimal dynamic ever since.  Our dynamic plays a lot in what would be considered a gray area of D/s because we're both capable of being switchy, yet it works beautifully for us!  We are able to be ourselves without kowtowing to the many opinions regarding what a "true" or "real" D/s relationship is supposed to look like.  I'm a firm believer in facilitating and supporting self expression and creativity in relationships.  Relationships based on the appearances and affectations of consensus driven roles have no appeal for me.

The dynamic when my wife, My precious one and myself are together is interesting.  I am more s (mostly) with my wife while simultaneously being D (mostly) with my precious one.   It is fairly effortless for me to be that way because the relationship dynamics are well defined with each of them.  I don't feel that being s with my wife in any way keeps me from being D with My precious one.  Both ways of being are authentic for me and are available in each relationship as appropriate.  Hence, I view D/s and S/m switching not as constantly being forced to choose one or the other orientation but instead being able to choose one AND the other in ways which support who and why I am.

Alright, who put that soapbox there? :-)



allthatjaz -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 12:50:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I think some of the reluctance to label oneself a switch might stem from people being generally unsupportive of switches in general.

I've seen it stated more than once that Switches are confused... on the fence... just trying to get laid... faking it... It is pretty likely that people picked up on that attitude, and decided it wasn't such a great idea to be a Switch.





Wrong, wrong and wrong... CM has a general opinion of switches but if you go to other sites or better still, the real world, one will be pleased to discover that switches are accepted widely within the community.



HeavansKeeper -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 1:19:32 AM)

Lady Pact,

Thank you for an opportunity to ramble. Let me say clearly, I right beside you in this matter.

Society loves absolutes. Guilty or not guilty. Black or white. Dependent or independent. Gay or straight. Sick-visit or well-visit. Republican or democrat. Dominant or submissive. (Some of these categories have additional options, but the point is the singularity of the choice.)

Perhaps its because there are so many people, neat concise boxes are convenient, efficient, fast, and decent for describing someone. I've found that almost all of these "A or B" values are better described as a spectrum, in which a person can slide along the scale. It's very reasonable.

Maybe that's why no one cares. It's reasonable and boring. The notion of a spectrum muddles the purist motif. Purists are interesting and worth discussion, while mutts are boring because of the over-accepting nature. While difficult to articulate this idea, I can basically use one hand to point at Bill Mahr*, and the other to point at Bill O'Rielly and say "Pretty much that." They are intriguing because of their polar nature. A reasonable guy who takes the best from both sides is considered overly agreeable and boring. It's why I don't have my own TV show. I'm reasonable, open-minded to change, ethical, and very willing to use operational definitions.

I assume this is the big drive to call someone a switch when they show a trait from the other side (there's that binary language again). If you're either a dominant or submissive, but not both, anything less than 100% is a switch. It's all in the definition. I just justified calling a submissive who leads at work a switch, because I defined submissive as "has submissive traits in 100% of all interactions."

It's important to remember that if you're dealing with jerks who love defining their terms, you can't be pissed when their terms don't match yours. Saying "For the purpose of discussion, anyone who..." means I can make up words. Most people skip this helpful step, and just use operational definitions without warning people, or providing the meaning. And they call me a jerk! [:)]

A famous piece of advice: What other people think of you is none of your business.

*I had to stretch for a liberal extremist. There really aren't any. I thought it would be a bit too obscure, but the character Edgar Friendly from Demolition Man (played by Denis Leary) is a dead ringer.



allthatjaz -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 1:31:01 AM)

I am not at a stage of development or growth. I am not confused and I certainly don't give a monkeys bollocks what people want to think! I am everything I want to be and therefore I am fully complete.

I am a Sadist, a masochist, a Dominant, a submissive, an edge player, a bisexual, a fantasy player, a realist and every other thing in between.

If Im a spaghetti head then so be it! so long as I keep having an amazing sex life and can keep my imagination keen and I/We are 'HAPPY' and anyone who has a negative opinion on that, I can only suggest one thing.... go and sort your own life out.



feydeplume -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 4:24:24 AM)

quote:

Additionally, just because I enjoy both sides, it does not mean I would switch roles with one person, I simply do not function that way. I would not dream of dominating my Sir, althought there are times when he teases me and tells me to try. :)


For you, the inter-personal relationship defines or motivates or titillates certain acts with a certain context or mindset. I think (BIG HUGE IMO HERE) One kind of Switch. For some it is the way their day has gone, like had to DOM all day at work and now want to relax to a nice flogging.
I have met some that see it  as a form of mental/sexual Tai Chi where they strive to balance and move through various mental states and physical acts, irregardless of the day, stressors, inducements, or whatever.
There are some that i have met that call themselves service Switches, meaning that they will Top or dominate or Bottom or Sub, depending on the needs of others and have no desire to take the service outside play and into relationships.

My point is, if i have one, there are as many flavors of Switch, a full continuum of it's own, just like there are T/D/Ms or B/s/s flavors or continuums. I personally think that sexuality, personality, opportunity, personal belief system, and exposure have a lot to do with IF WHEN and HOW a person can "switch". I certainly don't see Switch as a fence sitting position or inherently "doesn't know what they want", nor do i think that "only" Switchs can do both X and Y.

And i too think there should be a "want to try LOTS of things before I slap a label on myself" checkbox and not just lump that in with Switch.




marysdream -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 4:55:02 AM)

i know for me i am very concrete..i am just wired that way! i enjoy the consistency of people in my life this definitely includes the lifestyle..so that being said, i respect All/all forms of expression, although for me as i have been approached by switches on here i explain that i need a Dominant, and that i know i could not satisfy anyone's need to switch...it is all about knowing yourself, and being comfortable with who you are!
Thank-you
ree! 



Andalusite -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 9:08:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume
My point is, if i have one, there are as many flavors of Switch, a full continuum of it's own, just like there are T/D/Ms or B/s/s flavors or continuums. I personally think that sexuality, personality, opportunity, personal belief system, and exposure have a lot to do with IF WHEN and HOW a person can "switch"


I agree with you on the "deciding what to be" label separate from "switch." I disagree that switch is it's own continuum separate from D/s and BDSM. We don't do anything usually that other people who are into those things do, we're just more likely to do them with the same person or different people.

marysdream, I don't have a "Need to switch." I can be perfectly happy and content in a long term, monogamous relationship with someone on either side (I was a Domme for almost 5 years, and a submissive for almost 4 years). It really depends on the interaction with the other person! It's just like I am not limited to dating transgendered or genderqueer people, or M/F couples, because I'm bisexual. I like both, but I don't need both at the same time.



feydeplume -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 9:46:00 AM)

quote:

I disagree that switch is it's own continuum separate from D/s and BDSM.


I am sorry if i was unclear.  I meant to say that just like there is a continuum of 'Domminess' from say occasionally takes control of the situation through wants and takes control in the bedroom only through takes or has control in and out of the bedroom over many things through has control over most of day to day life with the submissive's veto as a balance through has total and final say on all things that can be controlled. there is a continuum for submission, for masochism, for sadism, for fetishes, for kinks, and for sexual drive.

(boy to i NOT want to have to do a Venn of anyone's sexuality, the way i am describing it!)

I am suggesting that there is a similar continuum for Switches for BOTH D/s and BDSM, not that they somehow manage to do things that no one else does or feel things that no one else feels. I am saying Switching is a unique orientation and not 'just' a blending of dom vs sub or top vs bottom.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 9:54:35 AM)

What's worse is when they try to combine personality and orientation. 



DavanKael -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 1:29:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marysdream

i know for me i am very concrete..i am just wired that way! i enjoy the consistency of people in my life this definitely includes the lifestyle..so that being said, i respect All/all forms of expression, although for me as i have been approached by switches on here i explain that i need a Dominant, and that i know i could not satisfy anyone's need to switch...it is all about knowing yourself, and being comfortable with who you are!
Thank-you
ree! 


As someone who identifies as a switch, I can say unequivocably that I am one of the most consistent creatures I know.  Not all switches desire to switch within a given relationship nor do they need to have constant access to the flip sides of the D/s coin.  Someone who is a switch may very well be able to be a consistent, Dominant partner with you and they may, in a wholly different relationship function in a submissive capacity, or a different one still, be more fluid between the two. 
Groovy on knowing what you want (You have a lot of people beat in that regard!) but it marginalizes switches most decidedly to assume that there's any level of inherent onconsistency. 
  Davan



zombiebabe -> RE: The Automatic Switch (3/18/2009 5:30:17 PM)

I am a switch but mostly submissive, or rather, I prefer to be submissive
I'm submissive and dominant when I'm supposed to be one or the other
eh?



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