RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (Full Version)

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DomMeinCT -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 7:48:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

I am not into rituals. I don't feel I need them to exert control. But I have been told by many, that they need a structure to their relationship. That they need rules, protocols and a rigid form for the relationship. They need certain language constraints, titles and scripts.
I prefer to let the passions run wild. I know there are many times during the day, when we have to exist in a world that involves others. But a simple squeeze of her throat, to let her know, "you are mine". Grabbing her and forcing her into your embrace, to let her know you control her. Watching her eyes flash with anger, as you interrupt her, just because you can, and then seeing the surrender in her eyes as you "force" her attention on you for a few minutes. Grabbing her, ripping her clothes off, and taking her, spanking her, using her .. because you can.
I don't need rules and protocols. I don't want to script out a "scene". I just need her.
Does this have a place in this "lifestyle".


Oooo yes, I think it does have a place, if two people consensually agree to it that way.  For me, there would also be some comfort in having certain rituals for the everyday.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 7:49:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

I am not into rituals. I don't feel I need them to exert control. But I have been told by many, that they need a structure to their relationship. That they need rules, protocols and a rigid form for the relationship. They need certain language constraints, titles and scripts.
I prefer to let the passions run wild. I know there are many times during the day, when we have to exist in a world that involves others. But a simple squeeze of her throat, to let her know, "you are mine". Grabbing her and forcing her into your embrace, to let her know you control her. Watching her eyes flash with anger, as you interrupt her, just because you can, and then seeing the surrender in her eyes as you "force" her attention on you for a few minutes. Grabbing her, ripping her clothes off, and taking her, spanking her, using her .. because you can.
I don't need rules and protocols. I don't want to script out a "scene". I just need her.
Does this have a place in this "lifestyle".



I love you, man.  [8D]



gypsygrl -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 8:10:41 AM)

What you've described in your op is strikes me as a very ritualized interaction that only works to unleash passion because your partner knows the drill. 

Its a particular kind of drill, one that, judging from the description in your op, involves latent conflict--you want the illusion of force and surrender in your interactions--but its still a drill. 

Sir and I have a small number of rituals and protocols between us.  Some of these evolved over the course of our relationship and others he's had in place since the beginning.  But we don't script or even talk much about scenes in advance.  Over time, through trial and error, I've come to learn his characteristic moves and respond appropriately.  So, when he grabs my hair, rather than resist, I relax into him.  Or, when he tells me to lay down, I know he wants to play.  Or, when he tells me to sit on his lap, its cuddle time.  All these things are spontaneous in the sense that he does them when the mood strikes him, but they're rituals because of the repetitive way they're carried out.  If he were to stop any one of them for an extended period of time, I would think something was up between us.



Andalusite -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 8:32:04 AM)

I'm not really into a lot of formal protocol, it seems like it would tend to feel like roleplaying, but it isn't a limit for me either.



Lynnxz -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 8:35:13 AM)

....

O wait.. is this where we're all supposed to jump in and begin the ego stroking?



CreativeDominant -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 12:45:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
"Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion"
 
One is foreplay for the other. Developing simple standing rules, and a daily ritual or two insure there's always an undercurrent of simmering passion and sensuality which at any moment can bubble over into boiling passion. To a caveman, hitting their partner over the head may be perceived as raw barbaric passion, but the act stands as a precursor, a ritual,  to whatever passion is to be exchanged.
 
Everyone likes to say and represent that they are spontaneous. Look closer and you'll see that before the spontaneous raw passion there has been some ritual, proper form, and protocol. Subtle protocol and ritual takes place all around us and we rarely notice. We may only see two people holding hands and miss the intercourse between fingers. We see people walking arm there arms around each others waste and don't appreciate the extra squeeze or rub. We, who consider ourselves 'lifestyle' take it up a notch; no underwear, a collar representing necklace, a tinkling ankle bracelet. What are these but ritual and form? I'll answer my own question - Foreplay.
 
Back when I had my own profile one of my disclosures was that I was a 'habitual groper'. I love touching, squeezing, fondling; maybe not necessarily ritual, but meant to be disclose it would be a fundamental 'proper form' of behavior to expect from me. One of the first indications of compatibility between beth and me was that she didn't mind being the 'grop-ee' from the first minute we met. That was only the beginning of our life together filled with rituals, form, and protocol. We don't even notice all of them now - not because they've become routine but because happen without effort - they are 'treats' we share. I consider myself very fortunate to have a partner who shares with me a passion for a life filled with rituals, form, and protocol. It's led to a lot of spontaneous, raw passion. One facilitates the other. If you put 10 spontaneous people in a room, nothing happens until the first one does something to start the action. Put it in terms of 'in-prov'. Improvising actors and/or comedians bring their talent into the scene; however there is always a subject or a situation required to make the exchange work. Reno 911 is filmed on this basis. No script, but the foundation of 'ritual' and 'form' illustrated by police uniforms and the situations encountered. That's not to say it always works and develops into a 'passionate' result every time, but the possibility of raw passion exists all the time. 
 
Rituals, protocol, proper form and raw barbaric passion; these two concepts are mutually exclusive and at odds with one another? I didn't know! I guess I've missed a meeting or two...

Nicely stated, Merc.  I also liked gypsygirl's statement.

Though many like to live life in a fashion that comes across as unstructured with as few rules and boundaries as they can, that in itself is a structure.  It is a loose one but it is a structure.  As noted, the OP's approach is one of structure in and of itself in that the "raw, unbridled approach" is what his submissive has come to expect.

I like more complex structure to my life.  Whether that comes from my time in the military, my time as a doctor or from a need to escape the chaos that surrounded my home life from age 13 on or the informal and freewheeling nature of my marriage, I don't know.  I just know it works for me to have rituals and protocols in place within a D/s dynamic and my romantic relationship.  These rituals and protocols tend to add fuel to the fire of those "raw, unbridled encounters" where I act "outside the expected scope" in response to her seemingly spontaneous (though usually thought-out to a basic level, at least...according to my second submissive) seductive maneuvers or when I "act out of the expected scope" when she is doing nothing other than her normal routine (this really excited and flattered my first submissive)...she always felt as if just her being her threw me into overdrive.  While this was true to a certain extent, it was---to a basic level nyway---planned.  And these small bits of planning, on top of the normal rituals and protocols followed during our daily lives together, added to the fuel and fire for us because they were "unexpected".

I feel sorry for those whose negative opinion of rituals and protocols came about because of some dominant using the same set with each and every submissive without any thought to the individuality of the one right there in front of him.  In those dominant's defense, all I can say is that while submission varies from individual to individual because of their uniqueness, there are aspects of submission that are similar across the board.  Many aspects of rituals and protocols are designed to address the submissION, not the submissive.  The fact that these same dominants chose not to add rituals and protocols based on their own individual submissive's needs and the unique qualities of the D/s dynamic they shared with that submissive is their own fault and their loss.



allthatjaz -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 12:57:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feydeplume





Imagine just for a moment her going up on tip toe to kiss you on the cheek and whisper "yes Sir" when you ask her to do something or get something cause you are busy and there are people around. Imagine just for a moment her meeting your eyes fork waiting inches from her lips as she waits for you to take a bite of dinner first. Imagine how many little ways those oh so awful rituals give her to I AM YOURS!

PS----I got my hands on espresso this morning!




Our relationship tends to be very much based on off the cuff raw energy but what you just described here is very much part of what I enjoy too. I think rituals form naturally over a period of time. His expectations and standards will become my rituals.



mc1234 -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 1:43:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
The fact that these same dominants chose not to add rituals and protocols based on their own individual submissive's needs and the unique qualities of the D/s dynamic they shared with that submissive is their own fault and their loss.


Yes, you're absolutely right, and I don't mean to knock something that works for others so well.  Every relationship I have has little rituals, even with my kids ... the kiss good night, the snuggle, the squeeze of the hand, etc. 

I've been thinking about this off and on today.  I had an 'ah-ha' moment when a guy I was speaking with was describing his rituals and protocol that he preferred, and I found myself thinking, that ok, this is what he likes, it's time to think about what I like and whether that's something that I want as well.  I'm thinking ... 'ok, black stockings .. check.  Heels .. check.  He wants black lace lingerie... check.  He wants me to kneel .. check.'  It all becomes so friggin' routine and boring.  It takes away the meaning of it for me, the power I'd feel behind doing things that he wanted because I know it's what he's had in every relationship. 

Everyone has constants in their desires, but when the dom comes across from the get-go as being rigid in every aspect, without taking into consideration, as CD said above, the uniqueness of the submissive in the relationship, it just feels empty. 



thetammyjo -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 1:58:06 PM)

Why do you think people can't have both?

Just because we have some rituals, rules, and a few protocols (I'm not big on these) does not mean that I can't or don't do what I want when I want to my slave. It does not mean that we can't both express our desires at a moments notice, when the mood hits us.

It simply means that we have a relationship when my grabbing my slave is part of how our dynamic works because we agreed that it does many many years ago now.

I don't do any of these things to exercise control or to feel control. I have control when I want, how I want, as I want. I do them because it turns me on and it very likely turns my slave on as well or it makes us feel something else positive at the moments we do them.



MissLaura1973 -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 2:49:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Why do you think people can't have both?

Just because we have some rituals, rules, and a few protocols (I'm not big on these) does not mean that I can't or don't do what I want when I want to my slave. It does not mean that we can't both express our desires at a moments notice, when the mood hits us.

It simply means that we have a relationship when my grabbing my slave is part of how our dynamic works because we agreed that it does many many years ago now.

I don't do any of these things to exercise control or to feel control. I have control when I want, how I want, as I want. I do them because it turns me on and it very likely turns my slave on as well or it makes us feel something else positive at the moments we do them.


You've said it better than I ever would.

For myself, because I am in a poly-BDSM relationship, there is a difference in protocol / rules / rituals between myself and each of my primary partners (who are my submissives). But at all time I am the one who makes the final decision, and that has been our agreement from the time that the three of us came together.

And now I find myself preparing to take on a slave, with whom I will have a very different relationship dynamic; as a result, this relationship will be more formal with significantly more protocol / rules / rituals. This slave will be in training with me, and so will exist within a fairly rigid structure, agreed to at the outset.

My submissives are my life partners; this slave will likely not be such and so will be in a different role in my life.

This is what works for us and we're comfortable modifying it as needed.



MG4Apuppygirl -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:02:44 PM)

Ho-hum. That pretty much depicts just another day in the human animal lifestyle, although you forgot to mention pissing all over her when your done to mark her as your property.  



Missokyst -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:08:38 PM)

Oh man I am a sick puppy... lol I am sure you meant it in jest but buddy.. that just sounded hot to me.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: MG4Apuppygirl

Ho-hum. That pretty much depicts just another day in the human animal lifestyle, although you forgot to mention pissing all over her when your done to mark her as your property.  



Missokyst -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:12:51 PM)

I dont think he said people could not do both.  Just that he wondered if his way had a place here.  People do what makes them hot. 
I like his style, rather than ritual oriented relationships. 
Rituals, protocals, and the like are not for everyone.  But very little in this world will work for each of us.
If ritual works, do it.  For myself I would be doing it much like the way I used to attend church.  Sit, stand, kneel, sit, kneel, stand, ect.  My mind was always wandering outside the side door, but I had that pattern down!
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Why do you think people can't have both?

Just because we have some rituals, rules, and a few protocols (I'm not big on these) does not mean that I can't or don't do what I want when I want to my slave. It does not mean that we can't both express our desires at a moments notice, when the mood hits us.

It simply means that we have a relationship when my grabbing my slave is part of how our dynamic works because we agreed that it does many many years ago now.

I don't do any of these things to exercise control or to feel control. I have control when I want, how I want, as I want. I do them because it turns me on and it very likely turns my slave on as well or it makes us feel something else positive at the moments we do them.




mc1234 -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:14:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Oh man I am a sick puppy... lol I am sure you meant it in jest but buddy.. that just sounded hot to me.
Kyst


Check out his profile, Kyst .. I don't think he was in jest!  (sounded kinda hot to me too!)



Prinsexx -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:20:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

I am not into rituals. I don't feel I need them to exert control. But I have been told by many, that they need a structure to their relationship. That they need rules, protocols and a rigid form for the relationship. They need certain language constraints, titles and scripts.
I prefer to let the passions run wild. I know there are many times during the day, when we have to exist in a world that involves others. But a simple squeeze of her throat, to let her know, "you are mine". Grabbing her and forcing her into your embrace, to let her know you control her. Watching her eyes flash with anger, as you interrupt her, just because you can, and then seeing the surrender in her eyes as you "force" her attention on you for a few minutes. Grabbing her, ripping her clothes off, and taking her, spanking her, using her .. because you can.
I don't need rules and protocols. I don't want to script out a "scene". I just need her.
Does this have a place in this "lifestyle".

All relationships have rituals. I mean the eating at table rituals. The Saturday morning, Sunday afternoon type rituals. Everyday stuff. Bdsm has rituals: codes of conduct, terms of reference. 'English' caning, the Fashionista... each niche of bdsm has its rituals. The safe usage of some equipment means that rituals have been incorporated over time that actually are there for a dual purpose: safe words for example.
Some relationships, bdsm or non have passion. Passion is not a pre-requiste for bdsm. But to have both of these is magnificent. To actually physically, mentally and emotionally adore being with a Dom who is an expert in skill and guides an s-type through well rehearsed rituals is a joy. Personally it makes me feel safe so that thresholds of submission can be surpassed. Raw passion... at anytime of day or night...anywhere in any position...well it's a guarantee of longevity.



MissLaura1973 -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:26:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MG4Apuppygirl
Ho-hum. That pretty much depicts just another day in the human animal lifestyle, although you forgot to mention pissing all over her when your done to mark her as your property.  


Oh, I thought that was so obvious that it didn't need to be enunciated. My bad.



MidMichCowboy -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:32:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
At the same time, I guess I have my own 'ritual'.  Every morning when I wake up I take a moment to admire His sleeping form and I fall in love with Him all over again. 

Damn what a lucky man.

Just got home from work. Yes ... I assume a consensual relationship. I have enough self preservation to do that. (well there was this time in grad school, but it worked out. Then there was that time ... well, I've gotten smarter so I don't have to be as lucky).

I'll read more and catch up.



scarlethiney -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 3:44:56 PM)

It certainly does.  What  you described is exactly what my Master does and I have no complaints!

scarlet



MidMichCowboy -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 4:07:21 PM)

OK, caught up on the reading. I do not mind people who have rituals. As long as people don't just treat someone as throw away (yes, I know some say they crave this, but ... I think there are limits), I'm pretty good with it. I have friends who are very into protocol. I don't mind. If it works for someone, god bless you, go for it. We are not all the same.

I'm a programmer, analyst, data guy, geek whatever. I spend my days being so anal and particular about my work, going deep into code and such. When I get off work, I don't want to think about what I do next. I don't want to concentrate. Now, if my lady needs some things to make her complete, I will try my best. If she wants to kneel and wait on me, no problem. If she has the need for certain structures (within what I can do), I will do it for her. This is a two way street. I do not do scripted scenes. Hard Limit. I will not do public. Hard limit. I will not share. Hard limit. It's not me anymore. I don't judge those who do, but it is just not me. So if a lady needs that ... I am not a match.

The rituals I love (yes we all have them) are her in my arms at night, so I can smell her and feel her breathe as she sleeps. The look in her eyes as I feel the need to have her in the middle of the night. When I bring her coffee in the morning, and she smiles. When she kneels beside me, as we entertain and I run my hand through her hair. But I don't need to script them. If she feels like doing something, I do not have a problem with that. I don't feel I need to use it to maintain control. Is she wishes to do it, that is fine. Is she needs spankings, being tied, etc. .. I'm good with that. But I do have to be me.

What I am trying to explain so poorly, is that I really live by my passions. I work in such a structure way, after work, I just release myself. Will I find someone who accepts that .. I don't know. But I am honest about it. I don't promise things I know I won't deliver.

To those who don't think I'm serious about who I am, can't help you. I don't pee on a lady to mark her (do bite marks count?). I want someone to love, cherish and possess. If you don't get that, you don't get me at all.



catize -> RE: Rituals and Proper Form versus Raw Barbaric Passion (3/6/2009 4:11:57 PM)

What you seem to suggest here is that rituals equal, if not apathy, then a certain coolness; that passion cannot be expressed through protocol.  Take ballet as an example.  Every step, every move is scripted.  Yet the story the dancers tell with their bodies has the power to make us feel deeply.
Ritual can be a fervent affirmation of the relationship.  A few years ago I was involved with a dominant who had scripted a greeting ritual for me.  Every time we met in private, I knelt and spoke 3 short sentences.  We called it our mantra.  The words were powerful in their simplicity and as I spoke them, I felt them every time.  And the best part?  When I looked up at him, his eyes were shining with pleasure and pride;;;every time.
There certainly is beauty in the raw and hungry beast we sometimes feed on.  But do not doubt that there is ardor, too, in ritual and protocol.  



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