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I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:02:06 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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In a relationship are all things equal?

When it comes to loving / needing someone i cannot imagine that we love / need our partners equally? Maybe he needs me more than i need him, maybe i love him more than he loves me.

More than once here in cm i have seen subs / slaves stating that they know they love / need their partners more than their partners need them. I have never seen a Dom state the same thing. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but i just haven't seen it. I also never heard it when i was dating in the nilla world either.

It leads me to wonder........
In most cases does one person love / need the other person more?
Is it a BDSM related thing?
Is it more likely for the sub / slave to be the one loving and needing their partner more?
If it is a known quantity to both partners that one loves or needs the other more is it harmful to the relationship?
Can it enhance a relationship?

_____________________________

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

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Post #: 1

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:08:17 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

In most cases does one person love / need the other person more?

Maybe, possibly. Depends on the relationship. Nothing in the world is actually equal even if we wish that were true.

quote:

Is it a BDSM related thing?

No. People are people. Relationships are relationships.

quote:

Is it more likely for the sub / slave to be the one loving and needing their partner more?

No. being a sub/slave/Dom/Domme/whatever you wanna call yourself..has nothing at all to do with it. Some people just love deeper and differently than other people. Some people are more sensitive than other people.

quote:

If it is a known quantity to both partners that one loves or needs the other more is it harmful to the relationship?

It can be but not always. Depends on the relationship. Some people thrive on this, some people find it too difficult a burden to bear.

quote:

Can it enhance a relationship?

I guess it could. I don't know that it would enhance or not enhance. It would just be a different type of relationship that may or may not work for some people but nothing in the world is equal.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 2

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:10:13 PM

lighthearted

Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
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my highly vanilla stepmother uses the phrase, "In most relationships, there's one person that loves the other more". the first time she said it to me, I mulled it over, and it did seem to apply to most of the relationships I could think of. I don't really think it's a bdsm thing, but more of a yin/yang thing.

_____________________________

"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 3

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:15:48 PM

lucyNEEDSaDaddy

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/25/2008
Status: offline

there is a relationships theory that states that the person with the least amount of interest in the relationship holds all the power... i think this is true. i think people may or may not love eachother the same... i think love is more like the ocean. waves that ebb and flow. as long as each person is committed to a relationship and strive to do the right thing for each other then it should not matter. too many times ive seen the power play...

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 4

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:19:05 PM

sleeper798

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Joined: 9/10/2008
Status: offline

In the process of explaining why I wanted I divorce, I admitted to my husband that he had always loved me more than I loved him. It never felt like it should have been that way, and I never admitted it to him before. But it was always there, even if it was not acknowledged. It definitely did not enhance our relationship. I don't think it ended it, either.

_____________________________

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B. Banzai

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 5

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:22:11 PM

yourMissTress

Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
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I think that there are no two people who can love each other exactly the same. They are going to love each other a little differently. Maybe that difference is quantifiable, maybe it isn't.

I don't think it's a BDSM thing, I would tend to think it's a co-dependency thing.

I don't think it has anything to do with orientation, however, I've read here on the boards that the one with the most control in a relationship is the one who is the least worried about the relationship ending. That is a point that has always bothered me every time I've read it, as I see that attitude as emotional abuse.

I think that one partner being drastically more in love than the other can be detrimental to the relationship if that other uses it against them, holds it over them, or in some other way abuses that fact or uses it to their advantage. OR, if the one who is more in love becomes insecure by the knowledge that their partner does not love them as much.

I think that if both partners treat each other with love and respect the relationship is enhanced by their mutual love and respect, not the inequality.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 6

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:32:12 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

I studied this stuff in college and a google search brought back up what I was thinking of when I read this post.

There is something in interpersonal relationship studies known as "principle of least interest" which state that "the partner that contributes the least resources (but controls the resources) has more power." In this context, love and need are considered resources, as well as sex and I'm sure lots of other things. The quotes I've taken here are from the book Understanding Research in Personal Relationships By William Dragon and Steve Duck.

So no, it's not a bdsm thing at all.

As for the other questions:

In most cases does one person love / need the other person more?

I think in most cases yes, but not always by a huge or even significant margin. Relationship seem happiest when EACH partner simultaneously believes that he or she is the one who loves more.

Is it a BDSM related thing?
Not at all

Is it more likely for the sub / slave to be the one loving and needing their partner more?
Depends on the situation. You'd think so, but I've seen cases where it's not. If a dom needs/wants the sub more than vice versa then he or she may start changing and bending rules in order to appease the sub in which case it's obvious the power balance is tilting in the wrong direction but then again ours are just human relationships like any other.

If it is a known quantity to both partners that one loves or needs the other more is it harmful to the relationship?
I don't think so inherently, though it can be. When we designate someone as our primary partner vs. additional partners or submissives, we're putting value on one person over another and sometimes people thrive off knowing they are "less valued" if it happens to be their kink or relationship dynamic of choice.

Can it enhance a relationship?
Yes, as above.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to lighthearted)

Post #: 7

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 6:38:36 PM

aravain

Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline

This issue is something that is, quite seriously, stifling the relationship with my ex.

When I fall in love I have a tendency to go head-over-heels down a well with smooth walls, about 20,000,000 feet deep that has a cover that can't ever be removed. This is in romantic and platonic love, unfortunately... and there are currently two people who I experience this. One is a darling friend, and the most wonderful person I have ever met. The other is my ex.

The problem with my ex stems from a deep-seated *need* for him, a need to be liked by him, a need to still talk to him, a need to make him happier, a need to do anything he asks of me. This was an issue in our relationship as he got in pretty much the same way and we were so mutually needy on the other's happiness and other X factors that it became destructive. After exploring kink and the ideas a bit more he's determined that he's a submissive as well.

I don't know if it has any bearing on 'vanilla' people, but I do know that our basest desires in the relationship being to please and (essentially) serve the other in whatever way possible caused it to implode.

Now, of course, he doesn't feel that way toward me at all... which leaves me down a well without a lifeline :P The problem for him is that he has experienced that need and now can't get rid of it (that is, the need to make someone happy, to be there for someone, etc.)... or at least, that's my evaluation of his situation.

So I think this is very likely and probably happens a lot (the OP, not necessarily my situation). Lord knows it will happen to me for every man I fall in love with :P

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 8

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 7:03:41 PM

faithbunny

Posts: 99
Joined: 10/28/2007
Status: offline

I think it's a fluid thing--it changes over time, depending on personal growth, what's going on in our lives, etc. For a time I may have needed him more than he needed me; for a time he needed me more than I needed him. For a time I was much more open about the depth of my feelings than he was, but I don't think he loved me any less than I loved him--he just wasn't ready to say it out loud. After 8 years, we've been through the highest highs and the lowest lows, tried to break up and found out that we can't love anyone else the way we love one another, and I'm confident that, at this stage, the playing field is pretty darn level.

~faith

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 9

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 7:04:17 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

One thing that I had notices in my past marriage, there were times he loved and need me more, and other times that switched to me loving and needing him more. Sometimes we both were equal in loving and needing each other.

Sir and I have only been together for 2 and a half years, and I feel that I love and need him more, but I have occassionally seen this switch as well.

I do not know if anyone else has seen this.
oceanwynds

(in reply to aravain)

Post #: 10

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 8:47:39 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

I'd like to know just exactly how a person might go about measuring love...

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 11

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 9:35:37 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

For me, the key is "We love and need each other more ... for different things". As His sub, i need His physical strength for some things, and i need His wonderful capacity to control me with a look or a word. i love Him for His thoughtfulness and for all the ways He cares for me when i'm physically below par. He needs me for the mental stimulation i bring, for the ways i make Him laugh several times a day, and for the service i provide whenever i am able. He loves me for my warmth and acceptance of Him, and for how much control i have given Him. That's what makes it work for Us.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 12

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 10:49:02 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I can only speak for mine, and no it's not equal, he gives far more than I do, and there's a bigger weight on his shoulders than mine, since he's the go to guy for everything.

For me it's absolutely not a bdsm thing, it's a relationship thing. I will always expect the man to contribute with the financial end of things like buying groceries all the time, doing all the driving, * since I don't drive* Paying for the meals out. Since Daddy has a job, and any man after Daddy will have a job too, they make far more money than I do, being payed more than once a month, so it just makes sense to me they shoulder the huge finacial issues like groceries.

IT can inhance and it can dehance, depends on the relationship. But I can't tell you if it's more a sub thing or a D Thing, since I don't know the workings of EVERY relationship. Just mine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

In a relationship are all things equal?

When it comes to loving / needing someone i cannot imagine that we love / need our partners equally? Maybe he needs me more than i need him, maybe i love him more than he loves me.

More than once here in cm i have seen subs / slaves stating that they know they love / need their partners more than their partners need them. I have never seen a Dom state the same thing. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but i just haven't seen it. I also never heard it when i was dating in the nilla world either.

It leads me to wonder........
In most cases does one person love / need the other person more?
Is it a BDSM related thing?
Is it more likely for the sub / slave to be the one loving and needing their partner more?
If it is a known quantity to both partners that one loves or needs the other more is it harmful to the relationship?
Can it enhance a relationship?

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 13

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 10:58:49 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

In my experience, many romantic/sexual relationships of any sort have a partner(s) who are more dependent emotionally than the other parties.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 14

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 11:43:06 PM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

Wow, you jogged my memory all the way back to high school and The Bridge of San Luis Rey. Here's one of the most famous quotes from that great book:

Now [Esteban] discovered that secret from which one never quite recovers, that even in the most perfect love one person loves less profoundly than the other. There may be two equally good, equally gifted, equally beautiful, but there may never be two that love one another equally well (pp. 45-46).

In this moment, Esteban learns one of the painful lessons all who love must learn: that no perfect human love exists in the world. This admission, however, does not negate the importance of loving-i.e., the imperfection of human love does not give us license not to love.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 15

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/15/2009 11:46:25 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I think what's harmful is to equate love with need. I love several people. I am blessed to have them in my life. I would miss them terribly if they were gone and would mourn their absence. But, I don't need them. Needing a person turns love, in my experience, into negative attachment where it then becomes codependent. It becomes a way to define our sense of self worth based on how much the other person loves/needs us. This has never led to anything healthy in my observations. Basing our self worth on the feelings and actions of others is a doomsday device, for, eventually (even if just for a short while), they will not love or need us as much as we love or need them and then we start to question why we're not good enough.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 16

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/16/2009 4:23:45 AM

CNJDom

Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline

Love and relationships are hand and hand. BDSM and relationships can and do go together. BDSM can have relationships with love. People can have relationships without love...BDSM has them, FWB is a form of relationship without love supposedly. This is a part of nature and the human animal. Quantizing love in relationships can sometimes be very easily seen. In others, the level of love is to deep that you would think they were cut from the same mold. Generally speaking most do but will or can't admit that they love less or more in their relationship. This would define that relationship and limit as well as bring the substructure of the relationship under scrutiny. Love grows and lessens...this happens in the course of relationships.

We all want it to grow, but sometimes it doesn't...then it wasn't meant to be. This applies to any relationship really. Sometimes love is like trust, in that you have to let them in and open yourself up to that other person (or persons if you are poly...for our poly people out there). But there in BDSM, there is a certain amount of love or devotion that comes from the relationship dynamic. Submissives sometimes bare themselves more than skin-deep emotionally and this will lead to feelingslove. This is natural and sometimes viewed as a pitfall of emotion. The sub is building trust and gives of him or herself completely sometimes, and this is what relationship building does. The bond between Dominant and submissive can progress into love, and at other times become a hardship for the submissive when they feel that all that they gave out wasn't enough. Sometimes the Dominant is not looking for love, and is just looking for the BDSM relationship. If the Dominant is not basing him or herself as the relationhip being in love with their subs...this can appear shallow and uncaring, and in somecases which depends on the individual, it can range from No-love, maybe-love, love-happened, growing love, to in-love. Some fall into love, others fall out. Same holds true for cetain submissives. Not all are looking for love, some are just looking for the kink aspect. Dominants will pour into this relationship more than the first instance and find that their submiissives are just not willing to go further than playtime. It happens then that one is into the other more than their partner is, and shows that it is people are the variable as always....again the nature of the human animal being what it is. ..Love is so simple yet so complicated.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 17

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/16/2009 6:28:12 AM

MsFlutter

Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

I don't think it's a BDSM thing, I would tend to think it's a co-dependency thing.

I get nervous around co-dependent people - I've never been equipped to handle the 'suck the oxygen right out of the room' type of needy. Sets off alarms in my head and I get this vision of one of those Garfield car window dolls - the kind that hang on by suction cups and stare at you.

_____________________________

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"The right data, filtered through an idiot, can yield a bad answer." einstien5201

(in reply to yourMissTress)

Post #: 18

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/16/2009 7:10:00 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

IMHO, love and need are subjective terms regarding personal perceptions that can be argued till someone is blue in the face--to do so IMHO is a waste of time and energy--My sub needs Me, he loves Me, I don't question how much or if its more than My level, Im not in this race for oneupmanship.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 19

RE: I love you / need you more. - 1/16/2009 8:00:14 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

In a relationship are all things equal?

It depends on how you look at things and how you measure their worth to the people involved. From the outside, it can look like one person is doing all the giving because he/she does all the calling, all the worrying, all the getting up-going to work, all the child-rearing. But is it so? Only the two (or more) people can tell us whether or not the burdens/joys are equal.

quote:

When it comes to loving / needing someone i cannot imagine that we love / need our partners equally? Maybe he needs me more than i need him, maybe i love him more than he loves me.
Tis funny...I've discussed the subject of need with many people through the years and have read a lot of books on the subject of need. There is good need emotionally...someone to help balance us, love us, etc....and there is bad need...I can't make it without you, my world is over without you in it, etc.. I know that I want someone who can look at me and say "I want you...I want you so badly and love you enough that I won't intentionally hurt you OR carelessly neglect you...I need you because you feel like the best fit I've ever had..." and yet I would still know this about them; if I walked away, they would go on and not turn into a pool of ineffective humanity.
I think that we love each other differently...whether or not that equates to equality is measured by how well the relationship moves along its' course and the satisfaction levels of the parties involved.

More than once here in cm i have seen subs / slaves stating that they know they love / need their partners more than their partners need them. I have never seen a Dom state the same thing. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but i just haven't seen it. I also never heard it when i was dating in the nilla world either. But is the fact that they state it necessarily make it true? In general, men are notorious for not expressing their feelings in the same manner that women do. I've been called a "wuss" for doing so...by other men, yes but also by women. So I know that in MY case, at least, I do not express myself quite as openly as I used to. If I say it now to someone, they can bet I mean it. If I say it out loud about someone to others, it is because I trust those people and because I cannot help what I feel and don't wish to always keep it in.

quote:

It leads me to wonder........
In most cases does one person love / need the other person more?

Not always. See the above and other answers here.

quote:

Is it a BDSM related thing?
Is it more likely for the sub / slave to be the one loving and needing their partner more?

No and no.
quote:

If it is a known quantity to both partners that one loves or needs the other more is it harmful to the relationship?
It can be. Knowing that the other person loves you more than you love him/her...if you even do...allows for manipulation of the one doing the loving. My best example of that is my experience with the DID submissive, although my first wife comes in a close second to her. ~wry smile~

quote:

Can it enhance a relationship?

Simples answer since I have to get to work...yes, it can.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 20

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