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Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 7:45:52 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I've been conversing with a Dom here in cm and recently we have been discussing 'extreme play / lifestyle' and how we / others see it. I had said that whilst i love extreme play i also like recieving aftercare and the gentler side of things along with the extreme. I'm talking cuddles, kisses, you know the kind of thing.
He replied saying he basically thought the kind of sub who wanted one minute to be beaten, bound and roughly treat one minute and then wanted to be cherished, gone down on, given flowers kind of alien to him. He said he would find this kind of sub inconsistent.

My reply was:-

I can see where you are coming from with this but would like to add a different perspective for you to peruse and consider. You use the word inconsistent to describe a sub who likes heavy beatings followed up by cuddles, attention, affection. Is it really inconsistent if that is how the relationship runs? Beatings followed by aftercare, beatings followed by aftercare. Inconsistent would be beatings followed by aftercare, beatings followed by cage time, beatings followed by being fucked off.
We often do not understand what we cannot comprehend. You do not understand the need a Dom /sub may have for cuddles, affection etc and therefore cannot comprehend how it fits into extreme play. I too struggle to understand / comprehend the emotional sides of bdsm relationships but i can do it better now than i used to.
On the other side of the coin too if i am serving a Dom who am i to say there will be no flowers, aftercare, going down on me if it his choice to do so? I serve to my Masters whim not my own. I myself am uncomfortable recieving much aftercare, flowers, hugs, holding hands but i would never tell my Master we can't do it because it is inconsistent to the heavy beatings i recieve.

Just curious as to what others think?


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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 7:50:04 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		There is a difference between inconsistency and balance.  What you are talking about is balance.  One can be pushed down an intense, extreme road for so long until one has no fuel with which to replenish.   Sure, you can take the stance that you don't have a right to ask for such things, but without proper care and feeding, a pet starves, doesn't it?  The same holds true when it comes to feeding emotional needs. 

So, do you want balance or do you want to starve?

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 7:51:55 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		It's not inconsistency. It's variety. 

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 7:55:05 AM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline 		I think that dom needs to subject himself to a good session of beatings and consequently experience his own "inconsistency" of aftercare need. 

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 7:56:36 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

So, do you want balance or do you want to starve?


Well truthfully this wasn't really a question about me per se but since you ask lol. I'm a bit of a freak in that i don't need the emotional side of things to be happy in my bdsm relationships. I don't starve without the emotional side and therefore i don't need the balance you speak of.

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Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:01:45 AM   
SassySarijane


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From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		Sounds more like a balance to me. I guess he'd call me inconsistant because I love beatings as well as some cuddles and laughter and loving and such. I'm greedy I suppose huh? I love it all. I'm not just a submissive, or just a masochist or just an anything. I am a mixture of many different things. I am a person.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:07:02 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

It's not inconsistency. It's variety. 

Exactly!  Saying that a sub is "inconsistent" for wanting extreme play and then at another time wanting snuggling or aftercare is like saying someone is inconsistent for wanting steak for dinner tonight and a big salad tomorrow night.  As Lynnxz said, it's called "variety."  Eating the same thing at every meal would be limiting your world and denying you lots of taste experiences.  Thus it is with only wanting one activity/type of activity day in and day out.  Variety is indeed the spice of life..............luci

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:11:04 AM   
slaveluci


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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
On the other side of the coin too if i am serving a Dom who am i to say there will be no flowers, aftercare, going down on me if it his choice to do so? I serve to my Masters whim not my own. I myself am uncomfortable recieving much aftercare, flowers, hugs, holding hands but i would never tell my Master we can't do it because it is inconsistent to the heavy beatings i recieve.

Agreed.  As is said around here so, so much......thus the importance of figuring out what each of you desire before committing to anything too seriously.  If he can't handle giving aftercare you need or you can't handle getting aftercare as he desires to give it, that needs to be worked out now rather than later to avoid problems.  I simply don't see why both can't be involved.  Nice, loving aftercare doesn't have to negate the hard-ass beating I just got.  As a matter of fact, for us, it complements it.....completes it.  Why can't a sub/slave have both and why can't a dom/master give both without it feeling somehow wrong, contradictory or hypocritical?  It sure feels great for us................luci

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:16:14 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
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Status: offline 		I'd say inconsistent is more obeying one day and then not the next, saying you get really horny when he flogs you then declaring you hate flogging the next, being able to get up and have breakfast ready one day then needing to be woken up and told to get it ready the next, that sort of thing.

Wanting a sort of ritual where post SM you get aftercare isn't inconsistent at all. In fact, I'd say it was normal and very, very common. Having that sort of routine then can be a way to gauge if something has gone wrong in SM. If post a beating you pull away or don't want to cuddle, to me that be a red light that we need to talk because something has happened.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:21:21 AM   
lusciouslips19


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Status: offline 		To me beatings followed by aftercare is very natural. But then again i do seek the Daddy/daughter style of Dominating. So its natural to get cared for after being diciplined.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:24:26 AM   
SteveAndJaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Having that sort of routine then can be a way to gauge if something has gone wrong in SM.


Jaz says

Oh absolutely agree with this. How can a Dominant communicate in a relaxed manner if he/she does not give the relaxed and loving aftercare. I also believe that its the combination of harsh and softly, softly that gives the wanted control to many a submissive.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:27:08 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		His style of thinking seems quite rigid.  You can't want soft afterwards if you want hard during?

That type of person would quickly be crossed off my list. 



Cali


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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:28:07 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbationI've been conversing with a Dom here in cm and recently we have been discussing 'extreme play / lifestyle' and how we / others see it. I had said that whilst i love extreme play i also like recieving aftercare and the gentler side of things along with the extreme. I'm talking cuddles, kisses, you know the kind of thing.
He replied saying he basically thought the kind of sub who wanted one minute to be beaten, bound and roughly treat one minute and then wanted to be cherished, gone down on, given flowers kind of alien to him. He said he would find this kind of sub inconsistent.

My reply was:-

I can see where you are coming from with this but would like to add a different perspective for you to peruse and consider. You use the word inconsistent to describe a sub who likes heavy beatings followed up by cuddles, attention, affection. Is it really inconsistent if that is how the relationship runs? Beatings followed by aftercare, beatings followed by aftercare. Inconsistent would be beatings followed by aftercare, beatings followed by cage time, beatings followed by being fucked off.
We often do not understand what we cannot comprehend. You do not understand the need a Dom /sub may have for cuddles, affection etc and therefore cannot comprehend how it fits into extreme play. I too struggle to understand / comprehend the emotional sides of bdsm relationships but i can do it better now than i used to.
On the other side of the coin too if i am serving a Dom who am i to say there will be no flowers, aftercare, going down on me if it his choice to do so? I serve to my Masters whim not my own. I myself am uncomfortable recieving much aftercare, flowers, hugs, holding hands but i would never tell my Master we can't do it because it is inconsistent to the heavy beatings i recieve.



I think you just fleshed out one of the biggest problems so many people end up encountering with D/s at some point—the how can she slap me and then hug me moments later bewilderment.

There is a lot of surface glamour to M/s and the like, derived from novels, cable shows and even the "lifestyle" itself that appeals to many, but the psychological realities of domination without romantic fluff or theatrical pretense doesn't necessarily sit well with them over time. This is why I feel far more than half of those looking for "slavery" or even submission really have no idea what they're asking for, and likewise for the would-be key holders. What you say regarding serving a Master or Mistress's whims is quite astute; past the critical fundamentals, authentic servitude does not bind the object of that servitude to a rigid format of expected behavior. I believe those who understand that math and live it consistently are rare birds. That's really where the subject of consistency is for me.






< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 12/11/2008 8:35:31 AM >

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 8:29:28 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Just curious as to what others think?

I think he belied the truth when he said it was alien to him.  It has nothing to do with inconsistancy and everything to do with what he was personally uncomfortable with.  Simple as that.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 9:07:16 AM   
SunNMoon


Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline 		I don't see it as inconsistent at all. Inconsistenet would be one day wanting the beating and then the next saying you hate beatings.

Personally for me beatings led to cuddles. I can't see having one without the over but most things led to cuddles for me.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 9:17:44 AM   
utopicus


Posts: 97
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I believe that your Dom misses the humanity in you and this is a shame. Even animals need to be caress from time to time.
However, there might be a difference, should your Dom perceive you like an object. I don't think it's the case though.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 9:32:01 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

ORIGINAL: utopicus

I believe that your Dom misses the humanity in you and this is a shame. Even animals need to be caress from time to time.
However, there might be a difference, should your Dom perceive you like an object. I don't think it's the case though.



Just for clarity HES NOT MY DOM. He is just someone i chat with on a friendly basis.


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 10:08:23 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		It sounds like you are each of separate mindframes.  I'm supposing that to him he views your need to be his object, then your need to be cared for as incongruent, or as he put it "inconsistant" with what you are to him, or what you claim you want to be to him. (or to the hypothetical dom you are discussing)

On one hand it sounds like you want to be viewed by him as an object of use with no concern for your own needs when you say this:

I serve to my Masters whim not my own.
 

But then you go on to state that you would like to receive aftercare when you say this:  

i love extreme play i also like recieving aftercare and the gentler side of things along with the extreme. I'm talking cuddles, kisses, you know the kind of thing.
 
I'm not criticizing that, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it could seem contradictory in a sense, when you come off as if you are all about being this piece of meat object there for your Sir's whims, then you start talking about your wants and needs. You say that you don't need the emotional aspects and the care, but then you say you do...or so that's how it seems, if I'm interpreting you correctly.

From my own standpoint, I think the whole "I'm your object and this is so fuckin cool" stuff eventually boils off, then you're left with a nice reduction of " I'm still human and I don't feel fulfilled because I'm not cared for by the person I'm devoted to".  No matter how much we may crave the objectification thing, I've come to think it's more a fetish than a realistic foundation for a long lasting relationship.  A lot of people go through phases where that type of relationship is desired for whatever reason, and then we evolve, and it's no longer our ideal. I don't believe we can ever really remove the human condition; the need for care from the person we are commited to.  You can't dehumanize a human being, no matter how glamourous all the slave lingo looks on paper.

And to him, maybe being cared for means having a chick suck his cock.  To you maybe it means being held after a whipping, to someone else maybe it means whatever, but either way, people need to receive something that they perceive as care in order to thrive in the long term.  

And there's nothing wrong with being put through the wringer and then being held and having your tears wiped away afterwards.  I kind of like the emotional roller coaster and the spectrum of different emotions...I think that's what really makes it all so intense.

There's no shame in directly admitting that you have needs and expectations of a potential Dom.  It doesn't make us less submissive, it just separates us from the sides of beef hanging in the cooler.

< Message edited by marie2 -- 12/11/2008 10:09:46 AM >

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 10:09:24 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		FR
It's your comment that you wouldn't tell your Master that you find stuff uncomfortable that puzzles me. Shouldn't these things have been discussed prior to getting involved in the relationship? Beyond that, if he had agreed and then changed, shouldn't you tell him if you find things uncomfortable, if you find what he does is making it difficult for you to be happy in the relationship? Because if the things he is doing he thinks is bringing you closer while in actuality these things are distancing you - then isn't that tantamount to lying? Because eventually you will be too unhappy to remain in the relationship whereas if you had been open, then the two of you could have found a win/win solution instead.

But if the dom feels that any caring is wrong he needs to communicate this early so that the sub knows she isn't compatible with him. Personally, calling this inconsistent doesn't hold water for me because if it happens every time, then as you said, it is consistent. What it is to me is a red flag that this man is afraid of emotional intimacy.

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RE: Inconsistent ? - 12/11/2008 10:16:30 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

....Inconsistent would be beatings followed by aftercare, beatings followed by cage time, beatings followed by being fucked off.



I see it as variety, too, rather than inconsistency.
Variety is like drawing with all the crayons in the box, or using all the tools in the toolbox, etc., in that, while it can be overdone, it can also be a lot of fun.
(~One may prefer to work monochromatically, which is fine as long as that is one's preference.)

Likewise, it's (usually... or at least sometimes) fun to explore and dink around with the depth and range of your humanity (if you will).

Similarly, I like aftercare sometimes, but not all the time.
I want to be *somewhat* consistent - but not entirely predictable, necessarily.

quote:

... On the other side of the coin too if i am serving a Dom who am i to say there will be no flowers, aftercare, going down on me if it his choice to do so?

Zackly.
Just because someone's a dominant, should they then not like puppies or ice cream cones, walks on the beach or eating pussy?
Are you going to tell them that they can't enjoy those things, at least on some occasion?

Now, I can see the problem if someone is lapping up all the schmaltzy and cheesy sentimentality that consumer-driven pop culture poops out on a regular basis. There has to be *some* discernment. But that doesn't mean that one has to become one dimensional in response. That would be to be manipulated in a similar way, but in a different direction.

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 12/11/2008 10:23:57 AM >

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