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Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 12:47:24 AM   
DogGoneBad


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		I'm curious if people find guilt trips to be an acceptable or unacceptable dynamic in their D/s relationships.  I want to explore this topic because some people are into mental or emotional manipulation.


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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 12:50:53 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		In what context?

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 12:54:43 AM   
DogGoneBad


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Joined: 11/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
In what context?

in any context that involves mental or emotional manipulation.

< Message edited by DogGoneBad -- 11/27/2008 1:03:12 AM >

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 12:58:52 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I love a good mind fuck... but guilt trips... no.

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 1:26:00 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		attempts at guilting me just pisses me off

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 1:32:33 AM   
sexisubi


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I love a good mind fuck... but guilt trips... no.


i'm just gonna second lockit on this one, guilt trips aren't for me!

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 2:20:56 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Guilt is the worst form of self flagellation there is; it doesn't help anyone or anything anytime, ever!  I'd suggest in *any* form of personal relationship that you care about, you leave it buried in the toy box because going there isn't a "mind fuck", it's emotional cancer.
 
Focus.

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 3:29:48 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
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Status: offline 		definitely unacceptable

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 4:44:21 AM   
CNJDom


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline 		I don't feel that guilt trips are good things to inclued into your D/s dynamic.  This is a negative behavior that may be good in a religious sense, but not so much in this environment.  This form of emotional manipulation can be damaging and have life-long effects that is just not worth the troubles that come from it.  There's a saying:  Guilt was invented by the Jews and perfected by the Catholics.  I would say leave that up to the pros.

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 5:02:21 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		If you want to see just how resolute I can be, try to emotionally blackmail or manipulate me. It is one of the few times you'll see me seriously bitchy.  I am too quick to blame myself for almost anything, and it isn't good for me to do.  If I get the impression that is being used against me, you'll see one locked and loaded redhead.  Definitely not a good idea.

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 6:02:29 AM   
natasha66


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

I'm curious if people find guilt trips to be an acceptable or unacceptable dynamic in their D/s relationships.  I want to explore this topic because some people are into mental or emotional manipulation.



Completely unacceptable.  I have no room for that in my relationship or in my life.  If I do some thing wrong, I apologize and move on.  Being made to feel guilty about it merely pisses me off.  I beat myself up enough - don't need a head trip on top of it.

< Message edited by natasha66 -- 11/27/2008 6:43:49 AM >

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 6:08:58 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

I'm curious if people find guilt trips to be an acceptable or unacceptable dynamic in their D/s relationships.  I want to explore this topic because some people are into mental or emotional manipulation.





From who towards who, what circumstances and what *precisely* are we defining as a guilt trip? Sometimes a guilt trip is only called that because, surprise, the person feels guilty over something they should have done. Other times it's a cheap emotional trick.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/27/2008 7:04:45 AM >

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 6:39:43 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		A person without guilt has no conscience, and is capable of doing anything.  If a partner of mine does something intentionally unacceptable and doesn't feel guilty about it, that's a sure sign I don't want to have anything to do with them (though in truth, that fatal flaw would show itself long before becoming my partner). 
 
On the other hand, if they do something intentionally wrong and feel guilty about it... good!  And if they do something wrong, feel guilty about it, and I lecture them and it makes them feel more guilty (call it a guilt trip if you want)... tough!  I want to make sure I'm understood, that we have a common appreciation for what was wrong, why it was wrong, and how it's not going to happen again.
 
They did the crime, now do the time without whining about some guilt trip.
 
John

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:01:01 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Just so it is clear, I view a guilt trip as tying to make someone feel guilty even though they have done nothing wrong, they just have not done what you preferred.  I view it as emotional blackmail/manipulation.

A guilt trip outside of play has no place in our relationship.  If he has a preference on what choices I make then he will tell me what I am going to choose.  He doesn't need to manipulate me into doing what he wants, he just has to make his preferences clear.

For myself, I learned really early in my interactions with him that trying to manipulate him into doing what I want was going to make life really miserable for me.

So guilt trips are unacceptable outside of play in our relationship.  As the one who has the authority, he has more efficient ways of getting what he wants and he is going to do what he wants to do and not what I want to do, so it really is just a waste of energy for me.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:07:18 AM   
PurpleSockx


Posts: 63
Joined: 11/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DogGoneBad

I'm curious if people find guilt trips to be an acceptable or unacceptable dynamic in their D/s relationships.  I want to explore this topic because some people are into mental or emotional manipulation.



Definitely unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. I think putting up a guilt trip on another person is one of the cheapest way to attempt at getting another being to do or be anything. Just flat out lame, in my opinion.

I find it interesting that you used the word manipulation here... because for me, dominance and manipulation are 2 very very different things. In a D/s dynamic, dominating for me is having authority on another person who wants to be dominated. Manipulating, on the other hand, is just a way to force yourself on another person psychologically (and I mean force in a negative way here).

But that being said, it's just my opinion and how I personally define manipulation.

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:10:18 AM   
trealeon


Posts: 180
Joined: 4/7/2007
Status: offline 		When I am training my slaves I definitely use tactics that work on their mindset and encourage and bring out their submissive and slave qualities. I want them to have the mindset of a slave. I will shame them if they do something wrong and I do that both mentally and with physical punishments.

However I consider a "guilt-trip" to be something different than lecturing a slave for doing something wrong. To me, "laying a guilt trip" is when someone uses their influence over the other to make them feel guilty about something they would normally do to satisfy the needs or desires of the first.

For instance, if my slave wanted to spend time with her family... I would lay a "guilt trip on her" to convince her that she was not being a good slave by going and spending time with her and say things like "obviously you don't love me or care about being my slave if you're just going to run off and be with your family." or something along those lines. Then she feels guilty and stays. I have to admit, I've done this a few times in the past but I realized how unhealthy it was and don't now.

< Message edited by trealeon -- 11/27/2008 7:12:38 AM >

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:13:54 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		They have their time and place. It can be used to remind the slave that it's not all about her and she's being selfish. It can help to make her think of her actions if the Master starts to feel as if she's starting to think of herself too much and not of him.

Now if it was used each and everytime for every single incident, after awhile she's going to stop taking him seriously and the relationship is going to be in trouble.

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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:16:49 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon
For instance, if my slave wanted to spend time with her family... I would lay a "guilt trip on her" to convince her that she was not being a good slave by going and spending time with her and say things like "obviously you don't love me or care about being my slave if you're just going to run off and be with your family." or something along those lines. Then she feels guilty and stays. I have to admit, I've done this a few times in the past but I realized how unhealthy it was and don't now.


That's what I call a guilt trip as well.  It is a passive-aggressive tactic that is completely unacceptable to me.  To use this example (and good for you for seeing it), the direct approach would be to say, "I want you to stay with me" or "You're not going". 

Not that trying to keep her from going is the right thing to do, but if you're going to "go there", then there is a way to get what you want without being passive-aggressive about it.

One of the classic guilt-tripping, passive-aggressive lines is, "If you love me, you would..."

Cali


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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:19:09 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Hmmmm, I feel guilty about things that I KNOW were wrong according to ME. No-one can STOP me feeling guilty about things I feel it for.........but by the same token, nor can they induce it.

Being manipulated emotionally and mentally is exciting in the right circumstances for me in a D/s context; new places to experience, different states to try.....but nothing that negates the basic security and foundation already present. I look forward to them and am very open to them.

The type of mental and emotional manipulation that is done for the satisfaction of ONE person in the dynamic, without thought for the other, or with less than noble intention, is often a huge disaster.

It depends what perspective and experience you have. I like having my mind bent by M.

Guilt has a direct link to your core....I see it as a very different thing to *mental and emotional manipulation*. At root, it boils down to who's benefitting in my opinion and why.

agirl







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RE: Guilt trips - 11/27/2008 7:22:29 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trealeon

For instance, if my slave wanted to spend time with her family... I would lay a "guilt trip on her" to convince her that she was not being a good slave by going and spending time with her and say things like "obviously you don't love me or care about being my slave if you're just going to run off and be with your family." or something along those lines. Then she feels guilty and stays.


Well hell's bells... that's just someone unwilling to make a decision (as in, "no, you're not going to visit your family, you're staying right here with me").  I just don't identify that as a "guilt trip" so much as I do someone hoping to manipulate another into making a decision for them (because I assure you, it's happening at other times as well without the guilt). 
 
John

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