Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 7:51:15 AM)

Obama's economic team are not waiting. Obama plans to reveal more details at a news conference today, but word is that several hundred million dollars will be spent to create more jobs.

" Though he does not take office until Jan. 20, Obama's team of economic advisors are already working out the details of a two-year package to save or create 2.5 million jobs that could cost several hundred million dollars. "

Full Story click here



meatcleaver -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 7:55:33 AM)

The world has turned upside down, it looks like the US will have a five year plan. [sm=jaw.gif]



Termyn8or -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 8:15:00 AM)

Where's the beef ? I mean the article is fine but I want details.

The other thing is, even at best, if the government pours money into these businesses they better oversee what they're doing with it. I smell another beaurocracy coming.

T



variation30 -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 12:52:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Obama's economic team are not waiting. Obama plans to reveal more details at a news conference today, but word is that several hundred million dollars will be spent to create more jobs.

" Though he does not take office until Jan. 20, Obama's team of economic advisors are already working out the details of a two-year package to save or create 2.5 million jobs that could cost several hundred million dollars. "

Full Story click here


how does one create a job that does not exist? could you also tell me why that job didn't exist in the first place? and I'm also curious what benefit 'creating' a job that does not have a market would pose? where is this several hundred million dollars coming from and what is not being paid for to fund this?



popeye1250 -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 1:05:08 PM)

From what I'm hearing there's going to be a lot of work on our infrastructure over the next 6-8 years.
Jim Cramer on "Mad Money" likes that, the stock market likes that and it'll be good for people and companies.
I've heard on CNBC that there are 600-800 bridges in the country that need to be replaced.
P.E. Obama so far seems to be a "hands-on" type of CEO who will get things moving in a hurry.
They said on the News that his administration "wants to hit the ground running" on Jan 20th.
That's good and that's what the markets want to see!



Vendaval -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 3:22:12 PM)

I read about this plan a while ago and am very pleased.  Remember the public works projects during the Great Depression?  This is the same type of situation. Put people to work on roads, bridges and public building like schools and hospitals, rebuilding our infrastructure.  It is a straight-forward practical plan.  I like it.  [:)]
 
Here are some examples of the Public Works Projects from that era -


"What were some of the biggest construction projects of the Thirties?"

The 1930s witnessed major construction projects from coast to coast. The Triborough Bridge, Lincoln Tunnel, and La Guardia Airport transformed the transportation network in New York City, and that city's Empire State Building reigned as the world's tallest building from 1931 to 1973.

But the South and the West, regions that had not already experienced development of their infrastructure as had the Northeast, were the principal beneficiaries of 1930s development. In the South, the Overseas Highway linked the Florida Keys, and the dams of the Tennessee Valley Authority brought electricity and flood control to the Valley. Major projects in the West included Shasta Dam in California, Hoover Dam on the Colorado River, the nation's first freeway in Los Angeles, and both the Golden Gate Bridge and the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge."

About the person being interviewed for this story -

"Andrew J. Dunar teaches history at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. He is the co-author of Building Hoover Dam: An Oral History of the Great Depression. He answers a few questions about major building projects of the Thirties, including the Golden Gate Bridge."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/goldengate/sfeature/sf_30s.html





Sanity -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 4:07:12 PM)

More has to be better. Why not have the government hire everybody, and really fix this mess once and for all.



Owner59 -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 4:11:19 PM)

More building and investment at home.

Less building and investment in Iraq.

I think that`s the plan.Sorry,but your Iraqi buddys need to find another teat to suckle from.

Why are we there again?



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 4:32:44 PM)

I hope it does turn into another CCC/WPA type setup. America needs a common purpose again, and rebuilding infrastructure is a good place to start. Good infrastructure draws other business as well. Ta-da



TheUtopian -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 6:27:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

From what I'm hearing there's going to be a lot of work on our infrastructure over the next 6-8 years.
Jim Cramer on "Mad Money" likes that, the stock market likes that and it'll be good for people and companies.
I've heard on CNBC that there are 600-800 bridges in the country that need to be replaced.
P.E. Obama so far seems to be a "hands-on" type of CEO who will get things moving in a hurry.
They said on the News that his administration "wants to hit the ground running" on Jan 20th.
That's good and that's what the markets want to see!




But what Cramer is not mentioning is the wholesale privatization of that infrastructure. Essentially what would happen, is the US government would finance the sale of the infrastructure to various global/trans-global corporations, and they in turn would hire American workers to repair and update the infrastructure. Then they would enact a new program of tolls and user fees to travel on the roads and over the bridges.

That infrastructure belongs to the American people - Your pappy, my pappy, their pappy's before them, and so on and so on, paid for that infrastructure with generations of blood sweat and tears. Now a handful of crooks from Wall Street, cloaked in white robes will re-emerge purporting to have this '' New Deal '' like solution for all our economic woes.

What we'll end up with is neo-feudalism in disguise---where the trans-global corporation replaces that of the medieval nobleman standing at the foot-bridge with his minions collecting your ''toll'' in order to pass.


In the case mentioned above - Obama wouldn't be taking on the roll of FDR.....but instead more like one closer to Herbert Hoover.







- R











rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 7:10:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheUtopian

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

From what I'm hearing there's going to be a lot of work on our infrastructure over the next 6-8 years.
Jim Cramer on "Mad Money" likes that, the stock market likes that and it'll be good for people and companies.
I've heard on CNBC that there are 600-800 bridges in the country that need to be replaced.
P.E. Obama so far seems to be a "hands-on" type of CEO who will get things moving in a hurry.
They said on the News that his administration "wants to hit the ground running" on Jan 20th.
That's good and that's what the markets want to see!




But what Cramer is not mentioning is the wholesale privatization of that infrastructure. Essentially what would happen, is the US government would finance the sale of the infrastructure to various global/trans-global corporations, and they in turn would hire American workers to repair and update the infrastructure. Then they would enact a new program of tolls and user fees to travel on the roads and over the bridges.

That infrastructure belongs to the American people - Your pappy, my pappy, their pappy's before them, and so on and so on, paid that infrastructure with generations of blood sweat and tears. Now a handful of crooks from Wall Street, cloaked in white robes will re-emerge purporting to have this '' New Deal '' like solution for all our economic woes.

What we'll end up with is neo-feudalism in disguise---where the trans-global corporation replaces that of the medieval nobleman standing at the foot-bridge with his minions collecting your ''toll'' in order to pass.


In the case mentioned above - Obama wouldn't be taking on the roll of FDR.....but instead more like one closer to Herbert Hoover.







- R












well...damn. Thats no good.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 7:26:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheUtopian
But what Cramer is not mentioning is the wholesale privatization of that infrastructure. Essentially what would happen, is the US government would finance the sale of the infrastructure to various global/trans-global corporations, and they in turn would hire American workers to repair and update the infrastructure. Then they would enact a new program of tolls and user fees to travel on the roads and over the bridges.
I missed where the article said that. Must be invisible text or something.



quote:

What we'll end up with is neo-feudalism in disguise---where the trans-global corporation replaces that of the medieval nobleman standing at the foot-bridge with his minions collecting your ''toll'' in order to pass.
Neo-feudalism, anarcho-capitalism, Libertarianism, pick your label.






MzMia -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/25/2008 7:58:15 PM)

Thank you for a wonderful topic.
I am looking forward to the creation of many jobs and
new opportunities!
I hope some of these jobs are in agriculture, farming and crop development.
I would love to see the USA get to the point, that the MAJORITY of our
food is grown here in our country.
I have always felt that we should support and encourage our farmers more.

We need to become a country of producers not just consumers!!!



SummerWind -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 3:26:14 AM)

.....unfortunately it's for 500,000 people.......The government in NJ "creates" jobs every day.  In fact many of our county and state officials have multipe jobs with multiple pensions and free 100% health care for life.  When we rely on the government to create our jobs it then means they also have the power to take them away.  We become bitches to a bloated, corrupt beauracratic system of patronage.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:  
‘A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.'  
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'  
'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'   
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'   
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:  
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;  
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;  
3. From courage to liberty;  
4. From liberty to abundance;  
5. From abundance to complacency;  
6. From complacency to apathy;  
7. From apathy to dependence;  
8. From dependence back into bondage'  
 
 



awmslave -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 3:30:59 AM)

There seems to be hope that the new Obama led administration will turn things around. I see absolutely no sign of it. We are still living the "hope" slogan.
The probability of real progress is slim as Obama has already taken the position as a consensus builder smooth president. The last will only serve status quo meaning the system rotting. The less jobs government creates the better. The purpose of the government is not job creation.



Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 5:27:03 AM)

quote:

Obama wouldn't be taking on the roll of FDR.....but instead more like one closer to Herbert Hoover.


Hardly.

Hoover insisted on trying to balance the budget as the economy spiraled downward. Just before Oct. 1929, 1000 economists sent him a petition explaining why he should not sign the tariff legislation he was chasing. Hoover refused, contributing substantially to the mess.

FDR came later---and at first didn't do so well...the New Deal took time to create.

Currently, we need infrastructure improvements. We have for a while. Fixing that is indeed new jobs, and government spending ALSO goes into GDP, as does the multiplier effects of the money those workers in turn spend. Consumers and businesses aren't spending, so giving them more money doesn't (in the short run) help much (as they are saving instead).

Also--printing money is not automatically hyperinflation. We are at or near the liquidity trap---interest rates are already low, can only be lowered so much, and so lowering them further loses effectiveness. Additionally, we are at the door of deflation. So, short term, it's a reasonable approach, coupled with the Fed again withdrawing that currency bit by bit when the economy recovers (and they can then raise interest rates).

The argument that "more is better" some have introduced is silly. No one is saying forever, and we've been in and out of this in the past. It's equally silly to say tax cuts are always good, the more the better. Right now, yes. But in good times people argue for this too, when in fact we should be pushing for tax increases during those times---unless you want to argue that eliminating all taxes will leave us flush with cash. However each of you sees it, the government does play important roles, and those roles need funding.

The deficit is also a serious problem. But Obama is correct--first things first. Get on our feet again, over the next two years, and then start to address the deficit.

Starting to chip away at health care will also help. The U.S. spends more per capita on health care than any other nation--but we don't have universal health care. Why? Instead of preventing problems, we send people to the emergency room for angioplasties and other costly emergency procedures. This has always been foolish, and needs to change.

Bush is doing essentially nothing about the economy. Obama needs to continue to step forward and address the problem.





Aneirin -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 7:30:04 AM)

Let's hope you have an administration that actually does create real jobs, jobs where the employees can again take pride in their work, for here the jobs that will be created for the benefit scrounger will be meaningless, mind bending non entity jobs, like litter picking, verge cleaning, street sweeping, graffiti cleaners and chewing gum pickers. Anything else of interest will be thwarted  by health and safety requirements and / or the need for expensive special training and  qualifications. So no mass public works of the past, no monuments to tribute man's abilities in hard times.



bestbabync -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 7:50:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SummerWind

.....unfortunately it's for 500,000 people.......The government in NJ "creates" jobs every day.  In fact many of our county and state officials have multipe jobs with multiple pensions and free 100% health care for life.  When we rely on the government to create our jobs it then means they also have the power to take them away.  We become bitches to a bloated, corrupt beauracratic system of patronage.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:  
‘A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.'  
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'  
'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.'   
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'   
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:  
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;  
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;  
3. From courage to liberty;  
4. From liberty to abundance;  
5. From abundance to complacency;  
6. From complacency to apathy;  
7. From apathy to dependence;  
8. From dependence back into bondage'  
 
 


[sm=agree.gif][sm=yourock.gif]



Lorr47 -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 7:59:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Obama's economic team are not waiting. Obama plans to reveal more details at a news conference today, but word is that several hundred million dollars will be spent to create more jobs.

" Though he does not take office until Jan. 20, Obama's team of economic advisors are already working out the details of a two-year package to save or create 2.5 million jobs that could cost several hundred million dollars. "

Full Story click here


But will there be anything to save come January 20.  Watch Yellow/Roadway the largest LTL truck company in the US.  It will be asking the Teamsters for a 15% reduction in wages.  The odds are a refusal or a reduction of 7%.  Look at history.  When this happened to CF and the like they closed up in 1 to 2 months.  The largest LTL carrier in the U.S.!!!!!!



Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Plan to create 2.5 Million Jobs (11/26/2008 8:58:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Let's hope you have an administration that actually does create real jobs, jobs where the employees can again take pride in their work, for here the jobs that will be created for the benefit scrounger will be meaningless, mind bending non entity jobs, like litter picking, verge cleaning, street sweeping, graffiti cleaners and chewing gum pickers. Anything else of interest will be thwarted  by health and safety requirements and / or the need for expensive special training and  qualifications. So no mass public works of the past, no monuments to tribute man's abilities in hard times.


Thanks for completely ignoring the context.

The U.S. has a deteriorating infrastructure. It needs repair/replacement.

How are these not real jobs? Real construction companies will get real contracts which they'll spend on real projects that have real meaning, for which they'll have to hire real people who will spend real money.

Your characterization is gilb, unsupported, and unrealistic.

GDP = G + I + C + X. Freshman stuff. Government spending, business investment, consumer spending, and net exports.

The largest? Consumer spending--2/3 of the economy! But consumers aren't spending. Businesses aren't investing. The U.S. has a huge trade deficit. Short run? Government spending, which puts real money in the hands of real money who spend it in the real economy.

Yes, that's not a good long run strategy---as the Obama team has already indicated. But it's an excellent and necessary short term strategy.

It has nothing to do with your silly gum portrayal.





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