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RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/12/2008 8:08:22 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maisyjayne
So do you find you take on everyones negativity? Must be so exhausting for you, do you worry about every homeless person you pass on the street, does every newspaper headline bring you out in a cold sweat?

Well what I said was that I would have to wash it off- so obviously, no I don't take it on. But I go into a kinky club expecting at worst a nuetral atmosphere and at best a happy positive people enjoying themselves sort of thing. To walk in immediately with a punishment dynamic right at the front door with no warning is rude and annoying- even if you don't believe in "energy."

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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Post #: 21

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/12/2008 9:58:45 PM

roughleather

Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
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With imagination, this can be fun.

Don't make your sub look down. Do the opposite. Dress her revealingly and insist she meet the eyes of anyone who looks her over. The other person will usually blink first. It's a fun game for an exhibitionist sub. She's not allowed shame.

(in reply to lilmissdefiant)

Post #: 22

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/13/2008 6:59:12 AM

CruelDesires

Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

The punishment was for both of them to kneel on all fours facing each other at the entrance to the club. Everyone who passed knew they were being punished and the humiliation of that was enough.

Ugh that would be so annoying to me, first thing I do when I walk into a club and I have to deal with someone else's negative downer punishment energy? I'm looking for a happy fun exciting time and now I've got to wash all that crap off. Yeah, thanks.

Welcome to playing out in a public venue or at a large party. Can't help but get "involved" with others scene energies and interactions even if it is just as an observer. You consented to that when you walked into the door. Mayhaps if you played more privately , you would not be "exposed" to that type of negative interaction? "Your words".

C-D

_____________________________

Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 23

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/13/2008 7:28:35 AM

Cuffkinks

Posts: 1780
Joined: 5/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

The punishment was for both of them to kneel on all fours facing each other at the entrance to the club. Everyone who passed knew they were being punished and the humiliation of that was enough.

Ugh that would be so annoying to me, first thing I do when I walk into a club and I have to deal with someone else's negative downer punishment energy? I'm looking for a happy fun exciting time and now I've got to wash all that crap off. Yeah, thanks.

As a positive person, I always look at the brighter side of things. If anything, I would feed off the energy of the power that put them there.
Not the "negative downer punishment energy."

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/13/2008 9:12:44 AM

allthatjaz

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Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: maisyjayne
So do you find you take on everyones negativity? Must be so exhausting for you, do you worry about every homeless person you pass on the street, does every newspaper headline bring you out in a cold sweat?

Well what I said was that I would have to wash it off- so obviously, no I don't take it on. But I go into a kinky club expecting at worst a nuetral atmosphere and at best a happy positive people enjoying themselves sort of thing. To walk in immediately with a punishment dynamic right at the front door with no warning is rude and annoying- even if you don't believe in "energy."

The clubs in London are very full on and maybe not for you LuckyAlbatross.
It was within the front door and not outside on the street. People know that they are walking into a BDSM club and in this particular place they know its going to have that raw underground feel to it. Everyone is happy and positive because they are able to share and do what they like without scorn or ridicule. It was a punishment within BDSM and not abuse and this club has more energy than possibly any other club I have been to. Thats why I chose to do it and thats why I knew it could work so beautifully

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 11/13/2008 9:14:22 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/13/2008 3:21:00 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Oh yes, because my sensitive sweet self can't handle "full on."

I never said you did anything wrong or inappropriate. But I try to be responsible with my energy as much as I am with my actions. And punishment energy is not something I think other people uninvolved should have to deal with. Just because people are polite enough not to tell you that it annoyed them doesn't mean it was all peachy-keen.

Just because it's your kink doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or that it's not going to be annoying and rude to others. Would people be ragging me if I'd said I found it annoying that someone splattered urine on the area? To me, energy is just as pervasive. So I'd get annoyed, I'd move on, wash it off, and then go on to have a good night.

But I'd still have to deal with the annoyance first. If you don't care about causing annoyance, that's up to you. But it's a very real and, to me, quite rational reaction to have in those circumstances.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 26

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/13/2008 11:58:18 PM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh yes, because my sensitive sweet self can't handle "full on."

I never said you did anything wrong or inappropriate. But I try to be responsible with my energy as much as I am with my actions. And punishment energy is not something I think other people uninvolved should have to deal with. Just because people are polite enough not to tell you that it annoyed them doesn't mean it was all peachy-keen.

Just because it's your kink doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or that it's not going to be annoying and rude to others. Would people be ragging me if I'd said I found it annoying that someone splattered urine on the area? To me, energy is just as pervasive. So I'd get annoyed, I'd move on, wash it off, and then go on to have a good night.

But I'd still have to deal with the annoyance first. If you don't care about causing annoyance, that's up to you. But it's a very real and, to me, quite rational reaction to have in those circumstances.

This is a BDSM club LA
This is a place where the depraved people go to do wicked things to each other!
This is a place where one is not judged for what they do. What you are doing is judging me.
I hate vanilla clubs because its all about being 'just so'. I celebrate this lifestyle and I do so with every bit of energy in me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 27

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/14/2008 8:05:20 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

This is a place where one is not judged for what they do. What you are doing is judging me.

Actually you enjoyed that people judge it to be a good thing. You just don't like that I judge it to be a less than good thing.

quote:

I hate vanilla clubs because its all about being 'just so'. I celebrate this lifestyle and I do so with every bit of energy in me.

And that's great. But don't pretend as if kinky clubs don't judge just as much as anywhere else. You can't say you want all the positive judgements and none of the negative and call that "not being judged."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 28

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/14/2008 8:08:48 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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I wouldn't accept being put on eye and voice restrictions with other people unless he told the other people about it. That's a set up for failure. Either I'm incredibly rude to everyone else or I'm disobedient. I'd hold the dominant accountable for this.

As far as not hearing someone if they can't look at you, what happens if they're really scared? You shut communication down entirely that way.

Thankfully he sees the dangers to keeping a long term relationship strong by imposing artificial restraints that will not work in all circumstances. Here it's used for fun and games solely.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 29

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/14/2008 8:34:12 AM

RainydayNE

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Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

This is a place where one is not judged for what they do. What you are doing is judging me.

Actually you enjoyed that people judge it to be a good thing. You just don't like that I judge it to be a less than good thing.

quote:

I hate vanilla clubs because its all about being 'just so'. I celebrate this lifestyle and I do so with every bit of energy in me.

And that's great. But don't pretend as if kinky clubs don't judge just as much as anywhere else. You can't say you want all the positive judgements and none of the negative and call that "not being judged."

honestly, i have to agree with luckyalbatross here
i've never BEEN to a kink club. but anywhere there are humans there will be judgement. you liked that other people thought it was a cool thing to do. that's a judgment. LA saying she thinks it's annoying is also a judgement.

and i'd probably think it was a bit annoying, too.
and saying something like "our clubs are probably just too much for you" to luckyalbatross, of all people. i haven't been here very long at all, but even i know that's just ... =p

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I wouldn't accept being put on eye and voice restrictions with other people unless he told the other people about it. That's a set up for failure. Either I'm incredibly rude to everyone else or I'm disobedient. I'd hold the dominant accountable for this.

that's also a really good point. were the other people told that the subs couldn't talk to them?

just strikes me as super intentional. i don't know any of you in real life, though, and i'm fairly new to D/s, so eh.

< Message edited by RainydayNE -- 11/14/2008 8:36:28 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 30

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/14/2008 4:18:14 PM

allthatjaz

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Joined: 8/20/2008
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Sorry but I fail to see what this has to do with the topic in question, the op asked:

I have always wondered how Eye and Speech restrictions work and how they are enforced, because I have no idea, can someone please help me out, any and all advice is appreciated?

I gave an example of an experience I had, had & how it had worked for me, this was then followed by a post from one of the subs involved in the scene, at no point did I ask to be judged-condemned-or congratulated for her scene.

Would it be too much to ask to stay on topic, so we may all benefit from others experiences & possibly learn from them?

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 11/14/2008 4:19:50 PM >

(in reply to RainydayNE)

Post #: 31

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/14/2008 11:10:52 PM

MaamJay

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Joined: 9/2/2005
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I like to look in a sub's eyes, so I never use the eyes down rule that is popular with some, in fact, I tend to enforce the eye contact. Especially at the times when the sub is a little embarrassed (perhaps because I am wanting them to articulate bluntly what's going on in their mind) and they are getting squirmy and trying to look away ... I will hold their chin with My hand to hold their gaze if I have to. My subs are far more likely to hear "Look at Me" than they are to hear "Eyes down".

Re speech restrictions ... lots of options there. I am very proactive with them for subs that have a bad habit of interrupting others. However, in a play sense, I have used them with My exhub at a party, mainly to curb his gadabout behaviour which was taking his focus away from being My sub. One night, I took him there and commanded him outside the door that he was not to talk at all that night. (Gags were a hard limit of his so I had to rely only on My say-so ... and his love of a challenge!). To say his eyes bugged out was an understatement LOL! However, then I hung a child's magic slate and stylus around his neck and on it, at the top I wrote "i am not allowed to speak tonight". This meant that others would know this was part of Our play and that he wasn't being rude. During the course of the evening I realised he was getting on far too well writing on the slate ... so I tied his main hand behind his back and only left the other one free. That slowed him down a bit ... and it was instructive for him as he didn't stray as much and had a bit more focus on where I was and what he could be doing for Me. he ended up actually enjoying the challenge!

I also used eye restrictions on him at a party one evening. We had a dog who had gone completely blind, and he had bravely continued to run around freely, teaching himself commands like right, left, forward, go back, stop, turn around etc. Exhub wasn't always very sympathetic to the dog though, which bothered Me. So another party night, I blindfolded him outside the party ... and made him stay that way the whole night. With the crowd there (a regular group so they knew Us well ... and most had met the dog!), they entered into the spirit of it and were perfectly happy to yell out such instructions to the hub! That wasn't a challenge he enjoyed, he was downright pissy in the car going home (still blindfolded) ... until We got home, the dog came running and greeted Us enthusiastically and I took the blindfold off and just pointed down at the dog and said "Now you know what it's like for him". he looked gutted for a minute, as the import of the lesson hit home. he was so much kinder and more patient with the dog after that.

Just a couple of examples of how I've chosen to use them and why.
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 32

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 12:20:40 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
I gave an example of an experience I had, had & how it had worked for me, this was then followed by a post from one of the subs involved in the scene, at no point did I ask to be judged-condemned-or congratulated for her scene.

Would it be too much to ask to stay on topic, so we may all benefit from others experiences & possibly learn from them?

It's a bit difficult to whinge about staying on topic after you've enthusiastically replied twice to the offshoot.

Are you saying now that the scene does quite often judge- you just don't ask for it or like when people judge you to be less than good?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 33

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 6:01:30 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Just because it's your kink doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or that it's not going to be annoying and rude to others. Would people be ragging me if I'd said I found it annoying that someone splattered urine on the area? To me, energy is just as pervasive. So I'd get annoyed, I'd move on, wash it off, and then go on to have a good night.

I'm the same way, although not everyone feels this way, and, in fact, I've even been mocked for being energy sensitive. What people don't get is negative energy can be just as assautling to one person as a punch is to another. Because they don't get that, they *gasp* judge and insult.

As to the OP, yes my former owner imposed eye and speech restrictions at times. When kneeling, I was to keep my head up and straight forward, aligned with my posture, but my eyes cast down. No speaking unless spoken to. No looking up until he either tipped my face up with my chin or yanked me by the hair.

The Dom I am seeing now prefers me to look directly at him, eyes open and wide. He does enjoy me blindfolded, though, so we switch between when playing.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 34

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 10:16:13 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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Actually back in the very beginning when I was still pretty insecure after the stuff the ex had done, he did have me talk to one stranger a day looking them in the eye.

I must have held the door for every elderly person in town while commenting on the weather. And if I didn't have the strength to interact with anyone that day, he understood.

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(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 35

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 2:24:56 PM

CruelDesires

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I personally enjoy clubs and private Dungeons for both the negative AND positive energies. That to me is part of the overall experience. If... you allow the negative energies to annoy you and affect you in a way that will ruin or taint your evening, then mayhap's you should stay away from those type of environments.

As to the clubs in the UK or in europe, I have yet to experience one first hand... but I am looking forward to being able to.

As to the eye and speech restriction part in a public venue. If someone is punishing their submissives and it happens that I witness it, ohhh well. If I am punishing my submissive and do not allow her to look at or speak to others, again, Ohh well. Deal with it.

And move on. :-)

C-D

_____________________________

Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 36

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 3:29:42 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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CD, it isn't so much that you're punishing her, as it is that when her friend walks up she isn't allowed to say that she's being punished and can't talk, so the friend decides she's really a snooty bitch and gets mad at her for something that isn't your sub's fault. So unless you're going someplace far from home so she won't know anyone who she would normally talk to, you're causing possible long lasting aftereffects. Put a sign on her back.

This is like those people who assume that everyone else conforms to their protocols and knows what they are, and get upset when they don't. We're not mind readers. If she's not allowed to talk to anyone, then it is your responsibility to tell others. But don't cause her to lose friends because you won't think ahead.

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Post #: 37

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 6:00:56 PM

sirslittleredass

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/2/2008
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Funny, this thread seems to address speech and eye contact restrictions mostly as punishment.When my Dom tells me to look down or away or to be quiet, they're all very much a turn-on as demonstrations of power.

Another thing about this - I love speech restrictions. Not just for their erotic value, but in some way they are almost a gift. It's a gift to be relieved of the obligation to communicate. I can just listen and observe, two of my favorite things.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 38

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 8:10:03 PM

CruelDesires

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If a submissive is properly heeling her D with her/his eyes lowered and is following strict protocol in a punishment or in a strict protocol format, people usually pick up on it. If they do not, it is up to the D to set them straight. I have no problems with educating them at the time and do not see an issue with it. If.. the D is doing that in a public situation, I would see it as their responsabilty to indicate it to people who approach them. Again, all common behavior in a play party or D club type setting if they so choose to do that type of play. If people have issues with it, then they should stay home and not venture forth in a public play setting. *Shrugs*

C-D

_____________________________

Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 39

RE: Eye and Speech Restrictions - 11/15/2008 8:16:35 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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CD, that's what I was referring to, that it is the dominant's responsibility to inform others of the restrictions. If you look up to post 3, the dominant clearly states that she was busy chatting with her friends and not informing others of the restrictions. In other words she deliberately put them in a position where they couldn't do the right thing.

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to CruelDesires)

Post #: 40

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