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Equality - 11/1/2008 6:43:42 PM

missturbation

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quote:

Equality - the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.

From dictionary.com.

In another thread there was several mentions of equality in relationships. I am struggling to understand how this works in a BDSM relationship. I believe i have the equal right to say 'this relationship is not working' and walk away but anything else i do not want or feel i have equal rights. I do not want equal rights to decide what we will do, where we will go, what play we will do etc etc.

So where and how does equality fit in for you?
Do you believe there are times you have equal rights and a time when you do not?
If so how do you decide when you do and when you don't?
Do you want equality? If so why? If not why not?

< Message edited by missturbation -- 11/1/2008 6:44:54 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

Post #: 1

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 6:53:36 PM

kyraofMists

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The three of us are equally important for the relationship that we have to continue.

The three of us are equally valuable in what we bring to the relationship.

The three of us are not equal in authority. He has it all and Alandra and I only have what he wants us to have.

The three of us are not equal in our abilities. We each have our strengths and weaknesses and he uses them in a way the enhances our relationship.

Time is not a factor in that this is the way it is all the time in our relationship. The only 'right' that we share is to be free from harm and free to leave the relationship if we choose.

I wouldn't want it any other way.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 2

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 6:55:06 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

So where and how does equality fit in for you?

It doesn't

quote:

Do you believe there are times you have equal rights and a time when you do not?

Yes on both counts... however, more often our rights are not equal.

quote:

If so how do you decide when you do and when you don't?

Within society, circumstances dictate this... within a relationship, being dominant, I do.

quote:

Do you want equality? If so why? If not why not?

I do not. I believe equality is a myth, an ideal created to feed some very base and popular desires. None of us is equal.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 3

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 6:55:27 PM

Rover

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I require equality in my relationships. But equal does not mean identical. I require equal effort, a submission equal to my dominance, equal responsibility, equal creativity, equal contributions to the relationship itself... much in terms of equality as a measure of value, but different as a measure of substance.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 4

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 6:56:40 PM

catize

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quote:

Equality - the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.

If I take part of your definition, i.e. correspondence in value or ability, then, yes, I am my dominants’ equal.
My value in the relationship is the same as his (theirs), we are of equal worth.
My abilities, although different, are just as important as theirs; we are equally able to participate in the relationship in the agreed way.

I’m not sure that ‘equal rights’ is the same as equality.
And yes, I want to be able to do my part, as well as to be valued.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 5

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:00:46 PM

missturbation

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edited because i cant get my question out right lol

< Message edited by missturbation -- 11/1/2008 7:05:28 PM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 6

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:01:56 PM

celticlord2112

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In matters of law, government, and politics, every man is equal.

Beyond that narrow realm, the notion of equality is a quaint and curious fiction.

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RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:04:32 PM

missturbation

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quote:

I’m not sure that ‘equal rights’ is the same as equality.

No its probably not but there is equality in having equal rights.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 8

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:05:36 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Out of pure curiosity a simple thing like a discussion about where to dine out. Do you think by allowing you to discuss where you will go KoM is giving you a status of your opinion on the subject being equal to his?

I know you didn't ask this of me, and that I'm not KoM (he's better looking). But I can't keep my yap shut when I see a good question.

In my relationships, my girl's opinion is every bit the equal of mine. If she didn't have sufficient intelligence to warrant a valuable opinion, she would not be mine in the first place.

But opinion is not a decision, nor a course of action. And in that regard, her decision is not the equal of mine... in point of fact, it does not count at all. She's entitled to her opinion, but I am entitled to decide what will come of it.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 9

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:08:28 PM

missturbation

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So her opinion may well not be of equal value as yours?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 10

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:18:27 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Out of pure curiosity a simple thing like a discussion about where to dine out. Do you think by allowing you to discuss where you will go KoM is giving you a status of your opinion on the subject being equal to his?

I am not sure that status is that appropriate word in relation to opinions. He does not rank our opinions based on who gives it but on the opinion itself. If he thinks an opinion on where to eat is a good one, then it doesn't matter who expressed it, it will get higher consideration than the opinions that are not as good.

I do not see him allowing me to express opinions as having impact on my status in making decisions. Expressing my opinion does not change that it is ultimately him that will make the decision on where we eat. He asks for our opinions because he likes to have as much information as possible so that he can make the most effective decision.

He is quite capable of making a decision that is in complete contrast to an opinion that either Alandra or I give and neither of us have a problem with that. A former submissive of his did have problems with that; she thought that if he asked for her opinion and she gave it, that he should follow it. She had an expectation that if she expressed an opinion that he should do it. Alandra and I do not have that expectation.

I think I should also mention, that being asked for my opinion or not being asked does not have an impact on my value to the relationship. I am valuable for who I am and not what I do.... but that might be another topic all together.

Knight's Kyra

~ just saw your edit and I think it was a really good question. There are so many nuances to it... at least in regards to my relationship.

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 11/1/2008 7:20:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 11

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:23:22 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

So her opinion may well not be of equal value as yours?

Her opinion was certainly the equal of mine, and equally valuable. But opinion is not fact. It is not a matter of one opinion being right, and another being wrong. Two opinions may be of equal value, but only only one person can determine what decision is made. And that person is me, and the decision is mine.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 12

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:23:43 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

I’m not sure that ‘equal rights’ is the same as equality.

No its probably not but there is equality in having equal rights.

Equal rights is a legal issue. Every person is treated the same under the law; at least that’s the goal.

Equality is, as others have pointed out, a myth. I have no equals, because I am unique in my abilities as well as my disabilities.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 13

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:24:02 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
and that I'm not KoM (he's better looking).

Oh sure, just inflate the man's ego even more. I am beginning to see how your sadistic nature likes to show itself *eg*

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 14

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:25:01 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
and that I'm not KoM (he's better looking).

Oh sure, just inflate the man's ego even more. I am beginning to see how your sadistic nature likes to show itself *eg*

Knight's Kyra

Hey, I owe the man money.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 15

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:47:31 PM

worshippingyou

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/3/2004
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Such an interesting discussion...

I think if I am asked to provide my opinion it is then my duty to do so. If it became apparent early in the relationship that my opinion was not welcome unless asked for, then fine... and if my opinion were never asked of me, then I might not like that, in the long run, but I'm sure there are others who would.

In the end, I think we're all equals in one way: a bdsm relationship is mutual and consensual. But the boundaries that both parties agree to set within the relationship can imply equality or inequality: but then again, those boundaries were set consensually, no?

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 16

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 7:51:19 PM

NuevaVida

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What kyra said is exactly the way I think about equality. I'm not sure it could have been said better than that.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

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Post #: 17

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 8:18:38 PM

AcademyForSlaves

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Joined: 2/24/2006
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Hi.

It appears what you want is human rights, to be respected as a human being, and have the right to choose your partner, and the right to leave if you choose to. But when doing bdsm play as a submissive you of course willingly choose to give up certain rights (only at those times) to obey who you want to obey. Makes total sense.

_____________________________

Academy Mistresses
http://www.academyforslaves.com/home.html

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 18

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 8:18:56 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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I see equality in a relationship that works for me, more along the lines of every action having an opposite and equal reaction. Equal but different.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 19

RE: Equality - 11/1/2008 10:07:19 PM

krikket

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Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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When i danced with my partner, i thought my part was as important as His. My focus was on Him, where i was guided me, how he wantsed me to move, to willingly follow his directions ..to compliment Him, only doing it back wards and in heels..lol. We might have appeared "equal" to others -- and in some ways we were, but without his direction and control, my involvement and movement would have meant nothing.

regards,
jiminie

< Message edited by krikket -- 11/1/2008 10:12:37 PM >

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

Post #: 20

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