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RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/27/2008 10:01:48 AM

Honsoku

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Like BDSM, martial arts;

•Have a sense of mystique.

•Suffer from vast swathes of misinformation and misperception.

•Are rife with people who ascribe to "one true path" type behavior.

•Have lots of people claim/brag experience in something which is rarely tested because it sounds impressive.

•Have plenty of people who think that they are "all that" when a brief discussion with someone who knows his head from his ass shows that they are clueless.

(in reply to HebiDom)

Post #: 21

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/27/2008 10:08:39 AM

missturbation

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Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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I know a lot of people into BDSM who are also into martial arts. I have never pondered why to be honest. One of my relatives is a tenth grade dan and i have been to the class he teaches many times. The movements and positions in my opinion are beautiful and more often than not very graceful. Personally i see nothing scrappy, unorganised in the movements of martial arts. In my opinion 'good martial arts' is controlled, disciplined and beautiful to watch.
I would in the main feel very safe with a Dom who participates in martial arts. For the reasons i stated above, control, discipline. Of course there ARE those out there who go into martial arts to be hard and hurt people but in the main i would say most are not in it for those reasons.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 10/27/2008 10:09:48 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/27/2008 10:16:21 AM

colouredin

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Why i said scrappy :-

Katas are beautiful I agree, and choriographed pieces that are to entertain are beautiful too, however in its practical use (self defence) it would have to be illogical looking, if it looked like a routine or system it would be easier to pick holes in it and therefore make it a less useful defence mechnism. So stuff like blocks and disarmament have to become blurry.

I have to agree with you Missturbation i dont think the most people get into it to harm it involves far too much discipline and training to get to a level that you could anyways. Martail arts teach responsibility, reasnable force etc etc

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Post #: 23

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/27/2008 10:16:50 AM

JustDarkness

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I like the mystique point you mention....interesting

(in reply to Honsoku)

Post #: 24

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/27/2008 11:29:51 AM

missturbation

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Joined: 2/12/2006
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b

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Why i said scrappy :-

Katas are beautiful I agree, and choriographed pieces that are to entertain are beautiful too, however in its practical use (self defence) it would have to be illogical looking, if it looked like a routine or system it would be easier to pick holes in it and therefore make it a less useful defence mechnism. So stuff like blocks and disarmament have to become blurry.

I have to agree with you Missturbation i dont think the most people get into it to harm it involves far too much discipline and training to get to a level that you could anyways. Martail arts teach responsibility, reasnable force etc etc

Agreed lol. Im having visions of a street fight now between a chav and a dan *giggles*. The look on the chavs face would be hilarious.

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 25

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/27/2008 11:59:17 AM

LadyConstanze

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I've always been into martial arts, the beauty of the movement, the way you master your moves, for me it is quite similar to the discipline you have to put in to have a single tail fly accurately, it's a lot of practise, you repeat the same movements over and over again until it becomes 2nd nature, same as martial arts. I think there is also an "art" to BDSM if done right.

As a child my mom insisted on ballet, I used to hate it because I was more of a tom-boy, now I can see that it is similar to martial arts, it's about mastering your body, concentration, discipline, now how can you expect from a sub discipline if you don't have it yourself?

One thing that is a great benefit is simply that you do know a lot about the human body, where to hit and where not to hit as you don't want to cause lasting damage and it gives you excellent coordination.

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 26

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/29/2008 2:36:14 PM

masterkind78

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Joined: 2/18/2008
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as being experianced in many martial (arts) this is a timeless debate

I.E what use is martial (arts) in real life

know that this question has been fought over quite a bit

martial pros? : dicipline endurance control stanima physical coordination etc.

cons? it attracts alot of people that have many misconceptions and straight out lies that they confirm through the (practice) they conduct

lets look at the cons from a person that has had experiance in the martial community (most of it is embarrising ludicris and just plain dumb)

that it makes you stronger -- no you make yourself stronger

you follow the one true path and all others are doing it wrong---- taller the idiot the harder he hurts himself

you have people without training or experiance claiming they are a master-- the fox always gives the duck the pond

here are some experiances I have had (not in the bdsm world)

1. went to a seminar with a world class instructor here in the northwest. in the middle of this class I had to stop doing "katas" as I am taking a break I watch a struggling student hiding in the back row
I walk over and start working with him and getting his motions closer to what the class is practicing
this is a 8 year vertan police officer as well as a corrections officer
I sit as the class shifts from kata to application of the kata
again I have to hellp the officer (I am being assisted by another instructor of very well renown)
during this I am being used as a dummy for the learning man and am subjected to control and restraint tech. as any real dom will tell you if you cant hang there you cant ask someone else to play with you.
VERY Uncomfortable!
but for me no pain as most people know it
control yes
the officer learned enough that day to pass his exam and move beyond his current pay grade

LESSON 1 Even the strongest man has things to learn. when you stop learning or experiancing you stop being the real person you are
and you start building a fake personality around yourself

experiance 2
world class instructors top student comes into my area to teach
I show up to check him out
not wanting to be disrespectful I sit out class (I have studdied with the instructors teacher I know the syllibus as well as he should)
he is teaching knife work
the students are doing the drills that he has mistaught
he do9sent have control or respect of his students
he is teaching probibly one of the last weapons and violence sets to beginners
and they are butchering themselves (if they only had real knives I shudder to think)
he asks me after class to sign up I ask him what he did wrong
he gets defensive and hostile
so he challanges me onto the mat to show him what he did wrong
(he is set on a knife dueling idea, he wants both of us to spar with training knives)
not wanting to tell him who and what I am I agree
first and last movement he made was using the same drill that he didnt learn to start
I disabled him by cutting off most of the fingers on his hand (too bad for training knives, no blood)
disarmed and retained the training knife
locked and controled him with his own weapon
lethaly should I have wished so even with the trainiing knife
my motion? little to nothing he did all the work and virtualy all of the movements himself

as a result I got a letter of appology from both the instructor and the teacher
the instructor moved back to continue training the teacher and I still corrispond and trade ideas back and forth

lesson 2 Never think your training makes you better than the next person.

experiance 3

I show up to meet a old friend I known this guy for over 10 years
this guy is amazing and a top level professor in the filipino system of his familys
as I walk over to meet him I am humbled and awed at actualy being able to spend hours of this mans time actualy one on one
as I walk up to a crowd I realize I nbever seen a pic of him in the 10 years of being friends and chatting nearly everyday if not more than that
so I look at the crowd differently and just feel them out who is the dominate one of the group who really holds the power
I just walked straight up to the right guy the first time
as I reach out and shake this guys hands I notice them
this guy has calusus all over his knuckles more than i have ever seen anyother guy
after 6 hours of training (18,000$ worth to him anyother day and anyother person would be required to pay that) I have seen and and worked with some amazing things that I will forever remember.

this man is regarded to be one of the top martialists in the world
his size isnt large
his ego isnt even there
when he walks its not with a swagger or crowing about his accomplishments
its with simple steps that insures that he wont fall even should he be on ice

lesson 3 the most powerful people never make a claim to what they are
if anything they are embarrassed about it and modest about thier abilitys

always becareful of those who brag about thier accomplishments

the ability to defend yoruself is hardwired directly to your brain
50,000 years of evoloution is on your side

you dont need to commit to a "Master" or "Sensiesi" to learn and a true master dosent require the title or insist upon it

however a true master will show you and walk with you making you feel the experiance

so far I have had 20 + years of experiance and tell others that if they seek control over others that you should learn how to be controlled
my experiances in being dom were never known even to myself until someone that I cared for spent the time to convince me that I am this way for a reason
I was born as a warrior
to fight and impose my will upon others when called upon to do so
some of the martial systems I have worked with are Aikido (most of the police and corrections/security are baised upon 1/4 of the aikido system), Russian Systema, FMA Kali escrima and arnis, indoneasian silat, european systems such as the german itialian and spanish sword, irish stickfighting! (props to the Bataitsas of the world hit hit and bleed!), and native american fighting systems. these are not the only arts I have worked with just the ones I curently work with

I would hesitate to call what I and others do as an ART
there is an art and science about what we do
I would rather call it math if you solve the question you beat the other guy

the unlearned will choose violance as thier first resort
the professional will select violence as thier last option

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 27

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/29/2008 5:39:37 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Perhaps people who are into both are into it for the endorphin release? Just a suppose, since I'm not a martial arts practitioner.

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RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/29/2008 5:47:09 PM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
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Mind ~Body~Spirit ~ harmony ~The journey .I feel both Martial arts and BDSM hold commonalities .I also have used things like holds and pressure points in my own exchanges with bdsm . If your into pure primal and or take downs its also of use .

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 29

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/29/2008 7:40:37 PM

faithbunny

Posts: 99
Joined: 10/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I did judo, muay thay and kyokushin karate, The last 2 I did full contact. Believe me..no one does it because he worships the clouds and the holy spirit. It is pushing yourself by destroying others. Ofcourse I can tell a nice story behind it how I came closer to nature...but honestly..I was glad when for once I didn't get an elbow in my face.
Even if it is to shape your own body and mind..it still is about hurting the other. (and yes I know...many say selfdefense...but full contact is not done for that)

ps2 One of the martial arts I like recently is systema. A russian system used by the spetsnaz. It has movements close to Aikido...redirecting your oponents energy or bring them out of balance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systema

I agree completely. My beloved has practiced martial arts for 21 years, and it was absolutely undertaken at age 12 for the purposes of self defense, self control, and the love of power. He's studied many styles but Brazilian jiu jitsu and Systema have been his passions for as long as I've known him. As for me, I have no particular interest in practicing martial arts, but I love mixed martial arts and watch all the UFC and WEC I can find. (Saw my first live event this month, yay! : )

~faith, who adores Urijah Faber more than her beloved would like her to

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 30

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/29/2008 8:31:32 PM

AquaticSub

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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I enjoy martial arts for several reasons - for one it's something that I truly do very well in. It's also good excerise, gets my blood moving, sparring is awesome and I enjoy the respect of the dojo. For me, I don't think it flips submissive switches though. I also taught classes and it never felt strange to receive the same amount of respect as I gave my teachers.

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(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 31

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/30/2008 1:48:41 AM

Motionflipotion

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/24/2008
From: City of depression
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I just want to manipulate other peoples bodies.
That and being able to graple someone to submission.
That's 80% of the BD/SM sexual to MMA connection for me.

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Post #: 32

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/30/2008 3:07:32 AM

darkfootsteps

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It resonates with me as well and I agree, simple as that

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 33

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/30/2008 12:53:44 PM

Rumtiger

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
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related?

huh, and here I thought it was because I got hooked on seeing Michelle Phiefer in skintight vynil at like 6 and because I grew up fighting with my bro and cusions as a game.

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(in reply to darkfootsteps)

Post #: 34

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/30/2008 3:53:24 PM

tweedydaddy

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Joined: 9/1/2008
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I can't speak for anyone else, certainly any other Dom, but I am very very aggressive, and it either comes out as humour, spanking or knocking seven bells out of an opponent. All strictly consensual you understand. Unless some fool starts on me when I'm out, then it's Christmas.
I do some boxing, having worked my way through every martial art since leaving the Marines, though at 48, I'm easing off. Martial arts are all about control, a side benefit is that they are a great way to meet girls who are into pain.... hehehehehe

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 35

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/30/2008 8:24:53 PM

rook42

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Agree with each of Honsoku's points as to similarities more than I should: I'm getting overly cynical of human behavior lately.

I believe that someone is nothing without etiquette and respect, it's something that necessitated in ALL activities. Personally, I don't see the discipline/beauty/respect/protocol aspect as a comparison between the two activities. It doesnt HAVE to be the motive- and I don't think it was, with me. You can make the discipline/respect argument from ANY organized activity, from tea to football. (I'm waiting for the "Football, BDSM, and You" thread- the tea thread has already been done, I dont doubt)

Something I do see(And this is for me, personally), is the existence of "flow". Any type of activity with a skillbase(And unfortunately, this is also true from tea to football) has a growth process, and eventually has a smoothness/dynamicism and a little subconscious "click" that sets in. When you're in the middle of the same activity, and you're getting better at it, there's a moment every once in a while where you feel like you've touched perfection. Even if it takes a couple years before it actually sets in hard.

Your intention in the martial arts might be dominance of an opponent. But often, that is not the case- ukemi is not directly a method of assuring control, and some arts(I'll leave the "martial" debate out of it) are very noncombative. The flow, and the getting better were really the prime motivators for me.

A major difference, however, is in the preparation. In the martial arts, you go whether you "feel" like it or not. You don't necessarily WANT to train on every given day(especially if you didnt sleep the night before), you continue through because you have a commitment to your own growth. In my own experience, an opportunity to play does not typically require the same intake of motivation to get a bag packed and a foot out the door. Quite the opposite, restraint is normally better in the long run.

Disclaimer: This is from my own standpoint, with a knowledge of my own motivations.Obviously, I make no claims as to others, and your mileage may vary.

(in reply to tweedydaddy)

Post #: 36

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/30/2008 11:48:53 PM

darkfootsteps

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Joined: 3/8/2008
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you say it better than I can, every now and then I do a kick just right, the feelings sublime, I try not to get to worried on the sparing who's best or what style is, everyone thats into it for personal growth I admire...and if your not it for that "shrug" why bother

(in reply to rook42)

Post #: 37

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 10/31/2008 3:48:36 AM

Housemaster96

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Joined: 5/21/2006
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There is a correlation between martial arts and BDSM apart from the discipline and control aspects. I studied in Japan and China various martial arts and adopted their philosophies into my own. (knowing Chinese philosophy requires several lifetimes to fully appreciate it).
Of course also Shibaru comes directly from Japanese martial training. The Japanese would capture prisoners and tie them up to torture them for information. Nothing new here as almost every nation has done that. But the Japanese took it a stage further. They saw art in bondage and so initially underground photos were taken of women bound to please. These eventually got noticed and as BDSM themes they took on new significance. It takes approximately 8 years to become a Master but most people can do basics in about three years study. This has also lead to the art of clothing a sub/slave purely with cordage.

< Message edited by Housemaster96 -- 10/31/2008 3:50:20 AM >

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 38

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 11/3/2008 6:47:07 PM

AStudyInScarlet

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Joined: 10/20/2008
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i'm a bodan in tkd. i love love love martial arts. my pet was turned on by it and was floored by my demonstrations. so. yeah i can see a plausible connection. i dropped him to the floor and it was the first time he felt completely submissive to me. it took a while before he recovered.

(in reply to myotherself)

Post #: 39

RE: Martial Arts and BDSM - 11/3/2008 7:10:33 PM

RedMagic1

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Joined: 5/10/2007
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Knowing how to hurt people bad can help when being creative about hurting people good.

Beyond that, I don't see any relationship between my martial arts interest and my WIITWD interest.

Regarding the pissing contest in the thread, I suggest people study the art of Tae Kwon Leep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Y6231uAmo&NR=1

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 40

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