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Doing what's in their best interest....even when they d... - 10/9/2008 11:13:45 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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How do you as an "s" type handle the challenge of taking care of your dominant and doing what is in his best interest....even when they don't necessarily want you to? Say your dominant has special dietary restrictions....low salt...or low fat, but they also have a love of potato chips and french fries? Or they have diabetes but don't like to take their insulin....or they don't want their diets restricted and have poor eating habits? What if they have a physical condition like a back problem that requires them to do specific or regular exercise but they don't really like to do it? If they are not supposed to have alcohol, but they really like a couple of beers in the evening? If they don't like doctors and refuse to get regular but necessary screenings?

It could be any one of a countless number of scenarios. Sometimes we tend to be most resistant to taking care of our health. No one really likes to be restricted in such ways. No one really likes doctor visits or exercise. No one really likes taking medications. Dominants are not immune. If it is your job to care for them, how do you get around their resistance on such matters?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

Post #: 1

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 11:21:42 AM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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I'll be totally honest, and I know that what I am going to say will not sit well with most here.

My late husband was a drinker, and a smoker, had been most his life. He also died from cancer and had diabetes. During his illness, neither the youngins or myself tried to get him to change his habits; we knew him too well. Pushing him to try and be heathier would have been like giving him not only a bomb, but also permission to set it off at our feet, of which he would have done.

So, despite the fact that I hated him killing himself in that way; I did nothing, I said nothing; I let him live as he had always lived, and how he wanted to live. I knew it was killing him; and I knew that it was killing him faster after he was diagnosed. Sometimes though, the right thing to do is do and say nothing at all.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 2

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 11:44:55 AM

MysticsLily

Posts: 79
Joined: 5/23/2008
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mistoferin

The Mistress is a smoker. Pack a day. And starting to get COPD. She has changed her smoking habits so that she doesn't affect our family including ums. She smokes only in the basement and not in the car. But (And like Irishmist, what I say here may not be the popular answer) it is her body, it is her choice. The more we nag, the more as human nature, the response is to resist. I do not own her, she owns me. I can try to cook foods that are better for her, I can try to help her quit by not nagging or causing undo stress when she chooses to quit. But the bottom line is that people who don't wish to change, will not change and any attempt at manipulation will only dig their heels in firmly.

I don't know the limits of your relationship mistoferin but here in my TPE situation I have no right to get around her resistance. I have no right to dictate what she does. However, a responsible dominant who doesn't care for their own health should make sure that every attempt is taken to care for their slave should their unhealthy habits be a danger to themselves. If an Owner is diabetic and unwilling to take medicine, a smoker with no intention of stopping, high cholesterol but no intention of dieting etc . . . then they need to prepare for their eventual early death. Living wills, life insurance with the submissive as the beneficiary, and a savings account with a monthly budget to get a slave through the first few months, as well as setting up someone trusted to help the slave work through the period after the owner's demise is absolutely necessary. It is the responsibility of the Owner to see to the future of the submissive/slave even when he or she isn't in it.

JUST MHO.

Lady Lily

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Lori Petty in Tank Girl

I share my life with she who has set me on fire, Mistress Mystic and we are HouseoftheMystic

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 3

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 11:47:49 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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Intriguing question, mist and not an easy one to answer. On the one hand, what you say makes perfect sense...when you love someone, you want to do your best to take care of them...make sure they are healthy, whether it be emotionally or physically or mentally. When you are an s-type, charged with taking care of your dominant, that task takes on a special layer of meaning. It could be argued that if the D-type has charged you with taking care of him, then he is setting you up for failure by not following through on your "requests". Another angle...we are all human and we are all adults. As adults, we are supposed to be rational and make intelligent decisions but as humans, we sometimes don't want to give up what we like and/or want NOR do we want to take what we know we need to take. Of course, there again one could argue at the dominant this way...if you are supposed to be in control of yourself so that you can control me, then doesn't that control include reasonable measures of responsibility for yourself?
Lastly comes the argument that is most difficult to answer and disagree with...yes, I am human and yes, I am dominant and able to control you and your actions as well as my own. I realize you are trying to take care of me but you are quickly approaching the "mothering-rather-than-partner" or the "I know you're the dominant and I really do respect you and care for you and I KNOW I should listen to you but in this case, I am right so I am going to make you do it MY way" guises. Now, before anyone thinks this is a manipulative answer on the dominant's part...stop. Think for a minute whether or not you have ever known a couple in your life in which you could see that the woman was almost "nag-mothering" her partner instead of being his partner. Think for a minute of the guy that you know who either told you or a friend of yours "I'm leaving you so that you can be free...I'm not good/the right one/ready for someone wonderful like you so even though you love me and want me and I love you, I am going to go away from you" and did so, not because he wanted to go off and fuck around but because he really felt that way...and so took YOUR choice of staying in the relationship away from you or your friend.

It's a hard row to hoe...dominant or submissive, we are still human. The best thing you can do in these instances is communicate your concern but then remember that, of all the things you can control or...in a s-type's case, take care of...there are those things you cannot control...a person's heart, their health...he could die of an unexpected heart attack..., etc.. Of course, once you have communicated your concerns and your worry and they still choose to do what you know to be wrong, then you have a decision to make: Can you live with their decision?

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 11:50:29 AM

Ialdabaoth

Posts: 1073
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From: Tempe, AZ
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D/s or no, I will always do what I think is right, regardless of anyone else's 'consent' in the matter. It just so happens that I value 'consent' as one of the factors used in determining what I think is right. But it's a calculus, and occasionally one of the other cells in the matrix overwhelms the determinant.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 5

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 11:54:43 AM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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Just to clarify...this isn't a post about my relationship. I guess that I am also not really talking about people who have no desire to change. I do know of dominants who expect their "s" types to take care of them. They tell their "s" types that doing so is part of their role. And yet, when it comes down to it they want to resist the efforts of their "s" type.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MysticsLily)

Post #: 6

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 12:00:35 PM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Just to clarify...this isn't a post about my relationship. I guess that I am also not really talking about people who have no desire to change. I do know of dominants who expect their "s" types to take care of them. They tell their "s" types that doing so is part of their role. And yet, when it comes down to it they want to resist the efforts of their "s" type.

Quite honestly, the stance that I have taken in the past, I would still take today. It's not my place to be a 'mother' to him...if he wants to be healthy, then it's up to him to take the steps to be healthy...to tell me that he is giving me permission to take care of him...sorry, but no thanks

I know that there are many who do this, and there is nothing wrong with it...it's just not in me to take on the role of caretaker in the sense that you are implying.

Food wise, yes, I can cook more healthier food...but going to the doctor, excercising...things of that nature...that's all on him..its not my responsibility. What's more, I don't want it to be.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 7

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 12:02:53 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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For my wife and I, this sort of question is much easier to resolve because we maintain multiple relationships simultaneously. She is my wife, my lover, my best friend, my confidant, and yes, my slave. But over-arching all of that she is my life partner... a human committed to sharing a wonderful and lifelong relationship with me. Issues in that arena automatically trump any other consideration. And yes, a part of our commitment to each other (not necessarily yours) is keeping ourselves healthy for our partners. We are not infallible at that, but it is absolutely with the scope of the other person to address.

We had a related issue come up just last night. My wife was disrespectful to me. And by that, I do not mean some sort of M/s disrespect... I mean personal and hurtful disrespect. The issue was addressed first at the life partner level. Only after the issue was discussed and a sincere and contrite apology received did we move onto discussing the same crime, but this time against our chosen roles as Master/slave. I confirmed that she understood the crime. I confirmed that it was still her choice to remain as my slave (she is always free to revert to being my wife or some more limited form of D/s). I made sure she understood that such actions were then harmful to her own goal. Then, just like before, when it was fully understood, I got a sincere and contrite apology from her. Problem solved.

The next part is the interesting part. I was absolutely certain that she understood that such issues went both ways. Where I to treat her in that way, I made it very clear that it's no more acceptable than her treating me that way. I stressed that it was critical for the sake of our life-partner relationship that such things be addressed promptly and directly... independent of which side of the kneel the crime was perpetrated. Back to the OP's question.... we'd address the health problem the same as we handled the respect problem. As a situation transcending Master/slave roles and definitely included within each of our rights as a life-partner.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 8

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 12:08:44 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Of course, once you have communicated your concerns and your worry and they still choose to do what you know to be wrong, then you have a decision to make: Can you live with their decision?

Thank you CD, that really is where it all boils down to isn't it?
One other thing to consider...
If you decide you can live with it, look the other way, keep your opinions to yourself.....would it make a difference if you were expected to sit idly by...or actually be a participant?

If your dominant was an alcholic....would you bring him drinks, drink with him....participate?
If his cholesterol was 400, would you cook all the fried food that he wanted, knowing it would kill him?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 9

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 12:16:19 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I simply give him the choice, every single time.
He has a tendency to drink way too much caffeine. So if it's late at night and he asks for yet another cup of tea, I ask him if he wants decaf or regular. Reminding him that it's ten and the caffeine probably won't allow him to get to sleep until nearly four. Usually he says "Oh right, decaf" with a sigh. But sometimes he says he has a lot of work to do and wants the regular.

If it's potato chips though with a sandwich, I just put a handful on the plate, like I do with mine. Because if the bag's there, we'll both eat them. By putting a small portion on the plate, that is healthier than otherwise.

I wouldn't be with a diabetic who wouldn't check his sugar and take his insulin though. I don't want to walk in and find him in a coma. The choice there is to undergo counseling with a nurse who specializes in helping diabetics deal with their condition or having me walk. I'll find him the help, even make him the first appointment, but after that it's up to him. But I draw my line clearly ie this I can handle and this I can't, you choose but you don't get both. Same as he can look for others or he can be with me, he can't do both.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 10

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 12:17:41 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Of course, once you have communicated your concerns and your worry and they still choose to do what you know to be wrong, then you have a decision to make: Can you live with their decision?

Thank you CD, that really is where it all boils down to isn't it?
One other thing to consider...
If you decide you can live with it, look the other way, keep your opinions to yourself.....would it make a difference if you were expected to sit idly by...or actually be a participant?

If your dominant was an alcholic....would you bring him drinks, drink with him....participate?
If his cholesterol was 400, would you cook all the fried food that he wanted, knowing it would kill him?

No...I would not be an active participant in my partner's self-destruction. This is part of that choice, mist...deciding whether or not living with it means that you are going to actively participate. For an s-type, this would be a very difficult decision...if she decides that she can live with it AND be his submissive, then that means she also follows his orders or she suddenly makes him asking her to do unhealthy things for him a hard limit. But at that point, she is starting to control the dynamic that much more, isn't she? Is that the way it the dynamic was set up, with the s-type in control?. AND, it could be argued that she is NOT living with it but rather, is trying to control him through other means.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 10/9/2008 12:41:49 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 11

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 2:00:56 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

How do you as an "s" type handle the challenge of taking care of your dominant and doing what is in his best interest....even when they don't necessarily want you to? Say your dominant has special dietary restrictions....low salt...or low fat, but they also have a love of potato chips and french fries? Or they have diabetes but don't like to take their insulin....or they don't want their diets restricted and have poor eating habits? What if they have a physical condition like a back problem that requires them to do specific or regular exercise but they don't really like to do it? If they are not supposed to have alcohol, but they really like a couple of beers in the evening? If they don't like doctors and refuse to get regular but necessary screenings?

It could be any one of a countless number of scenarios. Sometimes we tend to be most resistant to taking care of our health. No one really likes to be restricted in such ways. No one really likes doctor visits or exercise. No one really likes taking medications. Dominants are not immune. If it is your job to care for them, how do you get around their resistance on such matters?

Having not read any of the replies I can tell you... twice handles it beautifully. Not that Scooter or I are hard headed or stubborn or anything like that. Well... we're not... really. Anyway... A perfect example.

She was fixing my lunch the other day and she asked if I wanted green beans, peas or spinach. I said "None of the above". She asked if I wanted a salad instead. I said "Nope". I really didn't feel like having a green veggie... you know???? She said "Well, you're gonna have one of them so pick". I relented and had green beans. See, I have no choice, not really anyway, if I want to live the way I like to live. I have to have veggies. I get by with it a lot, I really do. I'll eat the way I want to for a while but I know when it's time to go back to the restricted diet. I don't cheat, mind you! You cannot make me eat sugar!! But I do let some of the other stuff, like the veggies thing, slide when I can get by with it. And that's generally when she is busy and I'm doing my own thing for meals... lol.

And Scooter? Hell, he's worse then me. He has a shoulder that's messed up right now... getting better, we talked him into going to an Orthopedic Doctor finally!!! Only with the threat that the loss of motion he's suffered would only get worse until he could no longer use his right arm!! See... I'm not that bad. Anyway... he was taking anti-inflamatories for it.... long before he knew he was taking them. Twice is good that way.

She cares for us both even when we aren't so good at doing it ourselves. She has no issue with putting on her "mom hat" and informing us that it's time to save the game and go to bed, it's a "school night"!! We tend to forget about time occasionally.

We've had this conversation before and was told that some considered what she does as "topping from the bottom". It took me a long time to really understand it but now I do. Twice is the way she is due to many things in her life... but the main one is because that's how we need her to be. In the last three years she is who she is to us because in a round-a-bout way (and some directly!) that's how we "built" her. So, how can that be topping from the bottom if she is doing exactly what we need her to do?

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 12

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 2:33:58 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

While I care for Him very much and want the best for him and will do my best to take care of him, he's still and adult and he knows the impacts of and consequences of anything he does. I can only do so much and if he doesn't want to take care of himself then I can't force that and I then have to make a choice...stay or leave. Can I live with the fact that he's never going to do what he should to be healthy?

How do I get around the resistance? I just remind him from time to time in a respectful manner by giving him suggestions and after that I let it drop and leave it to him to decide. He's a big boy.

But I personally would never be with someone that has self destructive habits and refuses to deal with the consequences.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 10/9/2008 2:35:37 PM >

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 13

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 3:54:43 PM

silkncarol

Posts: 318
Status: offline

My ex husband was diagnosed as diabetic....i educated myself about the disease, changed the way i cooked, and tried to be supportive....but he would not take any responsibility for his treatment and life became one big ole fight, nag-fest,..where i was becoming his Mother and Food Police...I finally had to say "i'm done...you make your own choices and live with the consquences".

It's different if someone makes a choice and commitment and then follows thru...i can support an encourage their endeavor..but i wont pull a kicking and screaming adult along who is acting like a child. That's not part of a dynamic i want to be involved in......

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Of course, once you have communicated your concerns and your worry and they still choose to do what you know to be wrong, then you have a decision to make: Can you live with their decision?

Thank you CD, that really is where it all boils down to isn't it?
One other thing to consider...
If you decide you can live with it, look the other way, keep your opinions to yourself.....would it make a difference if you were expected to sit idly by...or actually be a participant?

If your dominant was an alcholic....would you bring him drinks, drink with him....participate?
If his cholesterol was 400, would you cook all the fried food that he wanted, knowing it would kill him?

_____________________________

We attract hearts by the qualities we display. We retain them by the qualities we possess.

Shoes can change your life................. Cinderella

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 14

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 4:21:42 PM

bound4more

Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

How do you as an "s" type handle the challenge of taking care of your dominant and doing what is in his best interest....even when they don't necessarily want you to? Say your dominant has special dietary restrictions....low salt...or low fat, but they also have a love of potato chips and french fries? Or they have diabetes but don't like to take their insulin....or they don't want their diets restricted and have poor eating habits? What if they have a physical condition like a back problem that requires them to do specific or regular exercise but they don't really like to do it? If they are not supposed to have alcohol, but they really like a couple of beers in the evening? If they don't like doctors and refuse to get regular but necessary screenings?

It could be any one of a countless number of scenarios. Sometimes we tend to be most resistant to taking care of our health. No one really likes to be restricted in such ways. No one really likes doctor visits or exercise. No one really likes taking medications. Dominants are not immune. If it is your job to care for them, how do you get around their resistance on such matters?

I've found example to be the best incentive. If taking good care of myself is not an example and doesn't inspire another to do the same, well . . . . it's literally out of my hands. I am not going to attempt to coerce another into taking care of themself. If my Dom tells me he wishes me to support him in taking care of his health, and than refuses to participate. . . . . what am I a magician? Personally that would drive me nuts. I am the submissive half of our relationship; he is the Dominant. Neither position, in my opinion, means make me do what I don't want to do.

_____________________________

You can tell who someone really is by how they act

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 15

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 4:37:42 PM

MrHarsh

Posts: 56
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline

This boils down to a quality of life issue. Is life really worth living if you can't each french fries? For some, the answer is no. Forcing them to not eat french fries will just make them miserable, even if it's for they're own good.

Ultimately - even in a D/s relationship - nobody is anyone's keeper. You cannot "take care" of anyone who doesn't want to be taken care of. You cannot "make" anyone do something that they really don't want to do.

(Even when we make a sub do something, the sub is really weighing the advantages of pleasing the Dom(me) against any negative benefit for the sub ... it's a cost-benefit analysis).

Discuss, debate, get on your knees a beg them to change their ways if you have to...

(in reply to bound4more)

Post #: 16

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 5:13:58 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

How do you as an "s" type handle the challenge of taking care of your dominant and doing what is in his best interest....even when they don't necessarily want you to?

(With the presumption that, despite the wording, the question is being posed to s and D types...)

You don't. The Dom could have possibly explained a desire to fix a certain habit and told the sub to feel free to be a kind of watchdog for him, but if the Dom does not wish for change it's not the place of the sub to undermine his choices (or lack thereof).

Although I do think trying to bring up sensible points to the attention to the Dom and trying to be gently convincing are acceptable expressions of concern.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/9/2008 5:14:09 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 17

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 5:27:53 PM

DavanKael

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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I would express potential concerns and willingness to assist with healthier decisions but acknowledge, ultimately, that they are possessed of free will. The caveat being something that it so blatantly destructive that it tips the scales toward being overtly self-damaging or potentially damaging toward me/mine; the more extreme end of the self-destructiveness continuum would be where I'd absent myself from participation/enabling.
Davan

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 18

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 5:42:29 PM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

Quick reply:

When appropriate I'd express my concern but have no authority to demand he do anything and he'd never stand for it if I tried too.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 19

RE: Doing what's in their best interest....even when th... - 10/9/2008 5:43:08 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

How do you as an "s" type handle the challenge of taking care of your dominant and doing what is in his best interest....even when they don't necessarily want you to? Say your dominant has special dietary restrictions....low salt...or low fat, but they also have a love of potato chips and french fries? Or they have diabetes but don't like to take their insulin....or they don't want their diets restricted and have poor eating habits? What if they have a physical condition like a back problem that requires them to do specific or regular exercise but they don't really like to do it? If they are not supposed to have alcohol, but they really like a couple of beers in the evening? If they don't like doctors and refuse to get regular but necessary screenings?

It could be any one of a countless number of scenarios. Sometimes we tend to be most resistant to taking care of our health. No one really likes to be restricted in such ways. No one really likes doctor visits or exercise. No one really likes taking medications. Dominants are not immune. If it is your job to care for them, how do you get around their resistance on such matters?

I don't think you can. Perhaps some are able to convince a Master or sub that it's important to them that they take care of themselves but ultimately the decision with any one about their health has to be a choice they themselves make.

scarlet

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 20

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