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Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 2:25:31 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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Ok ive been thinking, the Dominant I am with has always said he wouldnt refer to himself as Master because that word implies that there is nothing left to learn. Life is about learning therefore one would hope we never run out of things.

As he refers to me as slave people tend to assume that is what he calls himself which is fair enough I would too. Recently somone said to him "to be a Master you must first Master yourself" now within the prior context how easy is it for someone to be a Master. Can we ever truely Master ourselves? Surely that means knowledge of oneself but how much do we really know who we are? I am young so its obvious that I dont but I have known people far older that still admit to not knowing. For example my father is 55 and he always says "well I still dont know what I want to do with my life"

Really I guess this isnt a question about BDSM and it isnt a what does Master mean question I know that many people will disagree with the above definition the question really is how well do we ever know ourselves, does anyone here think that they truely do? Or more interestingly how many people think that they dont? I would be intrigued to see if anyone admits the latter.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

Post #: 1

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 2:58:39 AM

masterforRT

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
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From Websters:

Main Entry:
1mas·ter

Pronunciation:
\ˈmas-tər\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Old English magister & Anglo-French meistre, both from Latin magister; akin to Latin magnus large — more at much
Date:
before 12th century
1 a (1): a male teacher (2): a person holding an academic degree higher than a bachelor's but lower than a doctor's boften capitalized : a revered religious leader c: a worker or artisan qualified to teach apprentices d (1): an artist, performer, or player of consummate skill (2): a great figure of the past (as in science or art) whose work serves as a model or ideal2 a: one having authority over another : ruler , governor b: one that conquers or masters : victor , superior <in the new challenger the champion found his master> c: a person licensed to command a merchant ship d (1): one having control (2): an owner especially of a slave or animal e: the employer especially of a servant f (1)dialect : husband (2): the male head of a household3 a (1)archaic : mr. (2): a youth or boy too young to be called mister —used as a title b: the eldest son of a Scottish viscount or baron4 a: a presiding officer in an institution or society (as a college) b: any of several officers of court appointed to assist (as by hearing and reporting) a judge5 a: a master mechanism or device b: an original from which copies can be made ; especially : a master recording (as a magnetic tape)— mas·ter·ship

\-ˌship\ noun

Main Entry:
mas·tery

Pronunciation:
\ˈmas-t(ə-)rē\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English maistrie, from Anglo-French mestrie, maistrie, from meistre master
Date:
13th century
1 a: the authority of a master : dominion b: the upper hand in a contest or competition : superiority , ascendancy2 a: possession or display of great skill or technique b: skill or knowledge that makes one master of a subject : command I think your Dom has Mastery and Master confused. A Master can simply be an owner of a slave (or animal), or one that has authority or control of another, as seen in the definition of Master. Mastery, on the other hand is: "possession or display of a great skill or technique". THIS is what I think your Dom is speaking of. A Master does not have to have MASTERY of anything-he can be a moron who happens to own a slave.

< Message edited by masterforRT -- 10/9/2008 3:03:23 AM >

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 2

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 3:07:14 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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Ok well as my post said I wasnt really wanting to dispute the definition of the term, I am well aware what the dictionary definition says, however Sir comes at it from a martial arts perspective which is irrelevent anyways as I was mearly using it as a lead in to my question. But thats fine I dont expect everyone to actually read my post

< Message edited by colouredin -- 10/9/2008 3:10:01 AM >

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to masterforRT)

Post #: 3

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 3:35:19 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

the question really is how well do we ever know ourselves, does anyone here think that they truely do?

I really don't bother with too much introspection. I'm comfortable with who and what I am, and feel no need to delve any deeper. There's nothing I'm really searching for "in there".

quote:

Or more interestingly how many people think that they dont?

I know what I like, what I enjoy, what has meaning and value to me, what I respect, what I need, what I'm compatible with, etc. Call that "knowing myself" if you will. I kind of think of it as knowing *about* myself.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 4

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 3:41:32 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

So do you see a differance between knowing yourself and knowingabout yourself?

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 5

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 3:55:53 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

I think that I know myself as best as I can for who I am right here, right now in this space of time. But tomorrow is a new day and I'm going to be a different person then. Maybe not drastically different....depends on what the day brings....but the possibility exists.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 6

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 3:58:25 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

That is just the way I was thinking Erin, aswe are transiant and fluid animals its very hard to actually know us because what we are now isnt what we always have been or always will be.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 7

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 4:43:50 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

I would prefer to NOT fully know myself; I like thinking that there are a few surprises still left in me.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 8

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 5:13:22 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

I'm not so sure that knowing yourself can equate to being a Master of self.
Knowing is one thing, where as doing what is `right` (for lack of a better word) takes self discipline.
Not to mention that `what is right` is subjective to individual perception.
Seems to me this is another area where action is what counts.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 9

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 5:21:11 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

I thought I knew myself, my psychology and my feelings, but one moment in time changed that impression.
But if I stop being introspective and growing why am I here? I think the hardest person to know is the self.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 10

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 6:42:49 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

I think that there is "mastery" and "MASTERY". I will never see myself as having learned all that there is to learn -- about myself or about the world. With that said, I do my best to be honest with myself and to avoid deceiving myself or allowing the subtle deceits of the world to throw a veil over my eyes.

I do think that it is necessary to be able to know oneself thoroughly before one takes on the role of guiding others, however, I also think that it is possible and viable to manage others without having obtained complete mastery of oneself, as long as one is as -aware- as possible of one's particular areas of challenge and willing to accept and adapt when a new area of challenge presents itself.

If nothing else, I believe that I am the ultimate master of my own fate. I believe that that cannot be discarded, even when we yield up control to another, because in that decision, as in a million others, we are shaping the nature of our fate.

I am constantly learning things about myself that I did not know. Each new experience is an opportunity to learn something more about myself, and to evaluate the canalization of concepts that have become ingrained through exposure to the culture in which I have been raised. At the point at which awareness comes, it becomes -my- role to determine whether to remain within the same framework, or to re-shape myself to something better suited to my internal compass. On the day that I am fully self-aware and have fully self-explored, I believe it will be time to discorporate, for there will be no more purpose to obtaining experience when there is no more to learn. Fortunately, I suspect I could obtain millenia of experiences before that could even be a possibility.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/9/2008 6:44:02 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 11

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 7:14:30 AM

JumpingJax

Posts: 155
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Over the past few years I have been able to look back at my life, the things I said, the things I did - and get some serious insight in to who I am and who I have become. I wouldn't say I don't know myself, I'm pretty sure I know who I am, the good, and the bad. That being said, I also know that the person I believed myself to be at 20 is not the same person I really turned out to be now at 34. Although frankly I'm not so sure it is all that much different, I just think now I'm more honest with myself about who that is.

Life in itself can change who you are. Experiences have a way of educating you. When I was growing up homosexuals for example where what jokes were made out of. They were to say the least wierd, and I know my religious views were much stronger then that. When I left home and entered the workforce I found myself working in a very gay friendly company. Turned out I become close friends with several gays. Oh and I dumped the religion as well. Course I guess my transformation there over the last 25 years wasn't much different then countless others growing up in a similar age.

More immediate - a couple nights ago I had a D/s session that I'm sure by most of you guys standards was pretty tame. But for me it was one of the first times I had really dealt out pain just because and that wasn't tied to punishment. I took control sexually in a way that I had not done before and pushed my sub beyond what she expected, wanted, or thought she could handle. It was a great learning experience for me, as well as the sub who woke up happier then ever. For me, well I liked it... Strange feeling not so much like as in my love for ice cream, but more I felt power and confidence from it. It will take more experimenting in to the new water for me to get a clearer picture of my true feelings, but this makes me really wonder about some of the close minded views I have had of bdsm in the past.

So see even when I thought I knew myself - turns out I didn't know everything.

< Message edited by JumpingJax -- 10/9/2008 7:15:56 AM >

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 12

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 7:38:58 AM

SrchngCpl73112

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/21/2008
Status: offline

I am realizing i didnt know myself as well as i thought i did since becoming involved with my wonderful Dom. Now, i am learning more and more about myself everyday and its wonderful. I am finding out who i am inside but i think everyday is a new day and new things come up that i will continue to learn from and explore. I am definitely not the same person i was at 20 or 30 or even at 35. I am evolving and its a really great feeling. I am looking forward to this new future i have and learning more and more about myself everyday. I think we are in a constant state of flux in a way because one never knows what will happen by the end of today or tomorrow or next week that might change something we always thought we knew or believed about ourselves. Life would be dull and boring if we didnt evolve and learn all the time.

(in reply to JumpingJax)

Post #: 13

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 7:53:18 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

To me, mastering myself means control over myself...actions, words, emotions, my thinking, etc.. That doesn't meant that I stilt any of those things...it just means that I retain control of the direction they head in AND have a clue as to when they are headed in a wrong direction.

Knowing what's inside myself? I do like introspection...believe in it for myself and any submissive that becomes or wants to become close to me. However, I've seen too many people get so caught up in introspection that it turns from a critical analysis of one's actions/thoughts/words/emotions into rumination...you get stuck chewing an analytical "cud". Knowing myself means knowing what I like/don't like, want/don't want, what things make me angry/sad/happy/hurt. It also means knowing the why of these...for me and retaining the "whys" of others in my world. Will I ever know myself fully? No...thank God.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 14

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 7:56:52 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline

quote:

"to be a Master you must first Master yourself"

As the person who said this to your Sir i can state that my reference to it had nothing to do with knowing oneself really.

quote:

Knowing is one thing, where as doing what is `right` (for lack of a better word) takes self discipline.

This is more along the lines of my thinking to be honest for the discussion that your Sir, yourself and myself were having.

Moving on to your questions.

quote:

the question really is how well do we ever know ourselves, does anyone here think that they truely do?

I know myself on a basic level pretty well. Do i truly know myself? No way.

quote:

Or more interestingly how many people think that they dont?

On a deeper level i don't think i know myself very well at all. The person i know myself to be is very strong, independent and takes no shit. The person i don't know very well has a tendency to be weak and believes in people and things she shouldn't. Interestingly i always refer to this side of me in the third person. I guess its probably just that i don't see that part of me as me and i don't understand it very well.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 15

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 8:01:10 AM

Subductrssss

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline

In answer to the main question.

Yes I do know myself, I know my likes/dislikes, I know what I am good at and what I fail at.

I know the good, the bad and the ugly and embrace the good, work on the bad and try to get advice and follow it on the ugly (not looks ugly but the deep dark part of me that is not good and not the beast that needs to be fed either (grin).

I know my shortcomings and I know my achievements.

I know me and I love me, although sometimes I don't "like" me, or rather my actions.

My heart rules my head and I have someone helping me with that to work on my ability to establish good relationships, not rush in where angels fear to tread and to not get blindsided with things because I am a pleasure and service oriented person (I live to give pleasure and serve another although right now I do not have "Another" in my life right now to do so with... although in some ways I do as I help my friends and they help me).

I don't put on airs, I don't pretend to be what I am not and I am simply and unapologetically .............. me.

And I know Marsha very well and embrace her in all of her facets of being.

< Message edited by Subductrssss -- 10/9/2008 8:06:44 AM >

_____________________________

Subductrssss

The reality of the other person lies not in what he reveals to you but in what he cannot reveal to you. Therefore, if you would understand him, listen not to what he says but rather to what he does not say.
Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 16

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 8:01:19 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
the question really is how well do we ever know ourselves, does anyone here think that they truely do? Or more interestingly how many people think that they dont? I would be intrigued to see if anyone admits the latter.

It is the absoluted embedded in this that make it sound like a difficult question. I know myself fairly well, including most of the dark corners. Humans in general are too complex to ever understand completely, even ourselves. And in case one day I do actually get to understand myself completely, it is a given that'll change tomorrow.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 17

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 8:17:39 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

To me, mastering myself means control over myself...actions, words, emotions, my thinking, etc.. That doesn't meant that I stilt any of those things...it just means that I retain control of the direction they head in AND have a clue as to when they are headed in a wrong direction.

Knowing what's inside myself? I do like introspection...believe in it for myself and any submissive that becomes or wants to become close to me. However, I've seen too many people get so caught up in introspection that it turns from a critical analysis of one's actions/thoughts/words/emotions into rumination...you get stuck chewing an analytical "cud". Knowing myself means knowing what I like/don't like, want/don't want, what things make me angry/sad/happy/hurt. It also means knowing the why of these...for me and retaining the "whys" of others in my world. Will I ever know myself fully? No...thank God.

I think describes my feelings quite well. I also think that the idea you've mastered yourself could, and should, be applied to everyone regardless of whether you identify as dominant, slave, or submissive.

As for giving myself a title of Master, even if I was a man, I wouldn't. I am not a title type of person, in that regard. To ME it is egotistical, narcissitc and vain. Qualities I need to avoid to feel I've mastered myself in a manner I can live with. What others do, and think, is their business.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 18

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 8:21:28 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Hello colouredin,

In answer to your question,

No, I don't *know* myself fully.......and have no expectations to do so. I know what I know *to date* . There are things that have remained fairly static over the years and a lot MORE that has altered as I've got older.

I'm the same person I was when I was younger in many ways and NOTHING like the same person in others. ie. The same person witrh handy and helpful experience.

There are aspects about myself that I'm fairly confident won't change hugely, having reached the age of almost 51yrs old.

I often think * Master of what?* .......and *slave to what?*...........I'm not a *slave* to the EXACTLY the same person I first knew and He's not the Owner of EXACTLY the same person he took on.

There's a certain amount of introspection that I can't avoid because of the person I am, but as Rover put it.....I know a fair bit *about* myself and that is adequate.

agirl

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 19

RE: Do you know you? - 10/9/2008 8:34:05 AM

sailorfrank

Posts: 127
Joined: 6/18/2008
Status: offline

   Great post by the way!   I always love to look inwards as much as possible.

Learning only ends in the Grave! We should always strive to learn for it keeps our mind alive and healthy.   I am a Master with a new slave and I am learning new things already and liking it!

   I have been trying to Master myself for over 40 years and havent done it yet. But I am able to Master my slave and train her. There is much I wish to pass down to her. things I have learned from many others.

And all will improve a person if learned.   Keep learning and be happy both in mind and body!

"To Thine own self be True"

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 20

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