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Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 6:32:24 PM   
SirLordspet


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline 		i recently read an article entitled, "Absolute Lifestyle D/s" by J. Mikae Togneri.  i found the article fascinating as he breaks D/s down into two worlds:  Absolute D/s and Mainstream D/s.  

Mainstream D/s takes place within the fabric of normal, day-to-day activities.  It maintains the right to choose between any one of a myriad of categories and intensities of dominance and submission but with neither the ability nor the desire to pursue them consistently or totally (Togneri).   It contains defined limits and generally occurs within a traditional couple's relationship during mutually agreed upon times with D/s just being one of many components.  Whereas, Absolute D/s is not one of many characteristics that defines the relationship, but, it is what the relationship is.  In an Absolute D/s relationship, the relationship resembles one of Owner/pet rather than person/person (Togneri).  This type of relationship is often times referred to as M/s or Master/slave. 

i enjoyed this article for several reasons with the primary reason being that it is the only description i have ever read that distinguishes between BDSM as a lifestyle and BDSM as play and/or as a sexual kink.  Since i do live a 24/7 M/s lifestyle, i found this especially informative reading that applies theory based upon experience and facts rather than baseless personal opinion passed off as expert analysis.   

Togneri, J. Mikael. "Absolute Lifestyle D/s." Leather and Roses. 2003. 13 Sep 2008 .<http://www.leathernroses.com/mikael/mikaelabsolute.htm>.

< Message edited by SirLordspet -- 9/13/2008 6:35:14 PM >

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 6:49:25 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
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From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Thank you for the very enjoyable post.  I would also fall into the absolute category based on these definitions.


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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 6:58:06 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Just looks like a sugar-coated version of the I'm doing this for real but others are just playing at it routine.  

I've highlighted the final paragraph of the article below.  This seems to encapsulate my point.


<<Absolute dominants and submissives are the only ones who truly do live D/s as a complete lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with playing at dominance and submission; nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by the fantasy of master/mistress and slave. But it is spectacularly unfair to both those who really are, and those who pretend to be, to place us in the same category.>>




< Message edited by marieToo -- 9/13/2008 7:13:37 PM >

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 8:49:07 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		I actually found it pretty interesting. I don't think putting it into quantitative terms really defines quality. I thought the author went out of his way to state that his opinion is that it is different not better. I understand his point and unquestionably know i fall into the 95% of others who do not or can not incorporate the lifestyle into all parts of my life

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 9:05:05 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how you wouldn't live within the fabric of day to day activities. You don't have to go to work, either of you? Nobody has to take out the garbage? Do the laundry? Neither of you ever sits down to read the paper? You don't ever visit friends or family? Play cards? Watch tv?

How do you live then and what is your day like?

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 9:37:15 PM   
JewAndCelt


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/23/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline 		I do have to question the necessity of all the, "this is how we real ones do it and this is how the not-real ones do it" articles and such.

I mean, really.

Do you really, honestly care if Domly Dan and sub sallie are doing it 24/7 or if they just play at it behind closed doors?

I know I don't.

_her



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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 9:48:58 PM   
SirLordspet


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Status: offline 		Specifically one way is not better than the other.  It is acknowledging that there is a difference is what is important.

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 9:51:33 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I am a fake, guppy, gazelle of a pretender, and I like it.  ^_^

quote:

But it is spectacularly unfair to both those who really are, and those who pretend to be, to place us in the same category


It's not 'unfair'

What is 'fair'?? Does he want to be placed on the  'all knowing BDSM HARDCORE' pedestal? Is he somehow being gimped out of something he should have otherwise gotten?

This is only another collar popping ego trip.

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 9:51:45 PM   
SirLordspet


Posts: 34
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Status: offline 		Yes, i agree. However i am not suggesting that one way is better than another.  What is important is to recognize that there is a difference which goes a long ways in identifying your wants over your needs and even in some cases, your future Dom or submissive.

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 9:55:47 PM   
SirLordspet


Posts: 34
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Status: offline 		i was only trying to make the point that there is a difference and not that one lifestyle is more important or more real than the other.  This is the first article i have ever came across an araticle that makes that distinguishment. 

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:01:27 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		What will offend some posters here is that the distinction seems so black and white.

Alot of folks see alot more gray.

Jeff

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:01:38 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Just looks like a sugar-coated version of the I'm doing this for real but others are just playing at it routine.  

I've highlighted the final paragraph of the article below.  This seems to encapsulate my point.


<<Absolute dominants and submissives are the only ones who truly do live D/s as a complete lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with playing at dominance and submission; nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by the fantasy of master/mistress and slave. But it is spectacularly unfair to both those who really are, and those who pretend to be, to place us in the same category.>>

Totally agreed, marie.  The part in red above really makes no sense.  I don't feel there's anything "unfair" about being placed in the "same category" as someone who "plays at D/s."  As long as I'm living my life the way it pleases Master and I, why the hell do I care what someone else does?  I certainly don't.  Comparing oneself to others and deciding who's "living" it and who's "playing" indicates to me a serious issue...............luci

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:09:03 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
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quote:

  <<Absolute dominants and submissives are the only ones who truly do live D/s as a complete lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with playing at dominance and submission; nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by the fantasy of master/mistress and slave. But it is spectacularly unfair to both those who really are, and those who pretend to be, to place us in the same category.>> 

And that paragraph concerns me as well.  I find the words “pretend to be” to smack of elitism. And I can’t take seriously anyone who cries “its not fair!”  as an argument. 

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:10:19 PM   
JewAndCelt


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/23/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordspet

Specifically one way is not better than the other.  It is acknowledging that there is a difference is what is important.


I would not presume to speak for everyone. importance really is in the eye of the beholder.

Also the term "absolute" implies a concrete definition. I would say that what we do is anything but set in stone. There are as many variations of style and level as there are people who participate in them.

_her

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:16:44 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordspet

Specifically one way is not better than the other.  It is acknowledging that there is a difference is what is important.

To whom is it important to make that distinction?  Why is it important? 

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:24:22 PM   
JewAndCelt


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/23/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline 		In my experience - here and otherwise - folk who bring up the 'importance' of such matters do so in order to validate their own points of view.

There's nothing inherently wrong with such behaviour; however, it's faulty logic (and quite self-centered) to assume that such matters are as important to the intended audience.

Do any of the rest of us hinge our lifestyle on such matters as these? To me, these arguments amount to little more than splitting hairs or denominationalism. BDSM is BDSM is BDSM, no matter if you're 24/7, a weekend warrior or just strictly playing online.

After all, what interaction do 99% of us have other than here on CM, and does any of what's being said truly affect the rest of us once we've logged out and gone off to bed?

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/13/2008 10:47:41 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5175
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordspet

i was only trying to make the point that there is a difference and not that one lifestyle is more important or more real than the other.  This is the first article i have ever came across an araticle that makes that distinguishment. 


Remember....every relationship involves 2 people who are very different from another 2 people in another relationship.  So...as a result....the relationships are totally different....each completely unique from another.  So 1 thousand couples would have 1 thousand different relationships.   

The author describes what he feels HIS relationship is....and even though he says one type is not better than another....secretly i feel he thinks his is superior....as MORE D/s than the other D/s(hence the term absolute).  Otherwise, what would be the point of his article besides saying his relationship was different than most...or so he believes and tries to make me believe?

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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/14/2008 2:03:14 AM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
To whom is it important to make that distinction?  Why is it important? 

Those who's sense of social identity/social status is heavily tied up in their practise of BDSM.

The whole argument about "authenticity" is so common in subcultural politics I have trouble mustering up the energy to be offended.  Apart from anything else, being seen as a 'true BDSMer' is obviously far more important to the author of that article than it is to me.  So it would seem churlish to deny him that validation.

It makes me vaguely nostalgic for the days when I used to sit round endlessly arguing about whether The Cure were "proper goth" or not.




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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/14/2008 3:41:50 AM   
seababy


Posts: 845
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Just looks like a sugar-coated version of the I'm doing this for real but others are just playing at it routine.  

I've highlighted the final paragraph of the article below.  This seems to encapsulate my point.


<<Absolute dominants and submissives are the only ones who truly do live D/s as a complete lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with playing at dominance and submission; nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by the fantasy of master/mistress and slave. But it is spectacularly unfair to both those who really are, and those who pretend to be, to place us in the same category.>>





Its not like you have a referee in the bedroom or in your day to day life giving you score cards as to how truly you live the D/s as a lifestyle.
(Imagine a license penalty system. Lose so many points and your "Truly living the lifestyle card" is revoked)

The only thing I think is relevant is if the acting parties in the relationship are on the same page.

Spectacularly unfair? (I LOL picturing some leather clad Dom having a hissy fit because his superior real and true-ness was unrecognized.)
Who cares how other categorize themselves or you? Unless its penalizes you or impacts on your relationship in some way.

Positives of the article for me.
In broad terms putting sticky labels on things can help identify where a individuals journey is at or heading too.
It certainly has helped me to define what I want in my own life. Its an imperfect system because language as communication is imperfect. So these articles, I think are helpful.

However separating those who "pretend" is a judgment that is bound to raise a few hackles.

Human sexuality and psychology is so complex made more so by drift as a personality evolves in time.
We can try and attach labels, but human beings are slippery suckers.

The whole I'm  real and your not argument always reminds me of the "splitter" Monty Python sketch from The life of Brian.


Sea

(from the BDSM People's Front)








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RE: Mainstream verse Absolute D/s - 9/14/2008 4:43:14 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Just looks like a sugar-coated version of the I'm doing this for real but others are just playing at it routine.  

I've highlighted the final paragraph of the article below.  This seems to encapsulate my point.


<<Absolute dominants and submissives are the only ones who truly do live D/s as a complete lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with playing at dominance and submission; nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by the fantasy of master/mistress and slave. But it is spectacularly unfair to both those who really are, and those who pretend to be, to place us in the same category.>>





Ditto. 

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