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RE: Critical Mass - 7/28/2008 9:01:50 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Ken,

I agree with the notion that vast majority of the people involved in the over 300 cities that have Critical Mass rides are just out having fun, and enjoying the ride.

However, most of the videos available are shot by and posted by members of Critical Mass and could be argued that they wouldn't show anything incriminating.

Just think about the Chicago rides they begin between 5pm and 6pm on a Friday evening, what effects do you think they have on the masses?  There's a CM 101 video floating around someplace, that talks openly about neglecting traffic laws like traffic lights "for the safety of the ride", what about the safety of the folks not in the ride?

I'm not entirely in favor of Critical Mass but the bashing on this thread is getting ridiculous.

I do very little riding on streets anymore, even in bike lanes, because it's so dangerous due to car drivers not having any concern for the bicyclist.

Of course Alum will continue trying to make stuff up and twist everything as you've already learned but I will always have scars from 3 summers working a perfectly legal job. As a matter of fact I got injured more in those 9 months than I did in 6 years in the USN.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Critical Mass - 7/28/2008 9:06:37 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Of course Alum will continue trying to make stuff up and twist everything as you've already learned but I will always have scars from 3 summers working a perfectly legal job. As a matter of fact I got injured more in those 9 months than I did in 6 years in the USN.


Alumbrado isn't making anything up Ken.  I watched those videos, and it's very clear what happened.  The San Francisco Chronicle had several stories on the incident, and the Critical Mass morons were determined to be at fault. 

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Critical Mass - 7/28/2008 9:11:44 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm not entirely in favor of Critical Mass but the bashing on this thread is getting ridiculous.

I do very little riding on streets anymore, even in bike lanes, because it's so dangerous due to car drivers not having any concern for the bicyclist.

Of course Alum will continue trying to make stuff up and twist everything as you've already learned but I will always have scars from 3 summers working a perfectly legal job. As a matter of fact I got injured more in those 9 months than I did in 6 years in the USN.


If by 'make stuff up, and twist everything' you mean 'will post a direct link proving that someone else made that claim about the lack of charges' ....here you go...

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2035736

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Not in that video you didn't. No windshield damage although a windshield wiper did get lifted off the windshield. No. the bikes were not thrown under the van. The scene begins with people scrambling to get off their bikes before the minivan rolled over the bike and biker instead of just the bikes.

You might want to watch it again.


I've watched it a couple of times, and I've seen other videos of the same incident.  The bikers did bash the window in.  Guess what?  The elderly couple didn't get charged with anything.  LOL. 

Here's another video of one of these assholes pretending to have his foot run over.  The woman with her child just drive off and run over a couple of bikes.  LOL.  It's exactly what I would have done, and again the cops didn't charge the driver with any crime. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7uY9ydMYc&feature=related


If it doesn't bother you in the least to keep posting fabrications, it certainly doesn't bother me to show them up for what they are.

It is however a waste of my time to keep doing it over and over for the same handful of serial trollers.




< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/28/2008 9:16:45 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 6:15:50 AM   
badprofessor


Posts: 515
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		This thread seems to be degenerating into an asinine cars versus bike debate with an awful lot of ignorance and speculation re: Critical Mass (or the naked version Critical Ass). For the record, this is now an international demonstration for cyclist rights carried on in most major cities on the planet. For a good overview, check the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass

We're not blocking traffic. We are traffic!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 6:34:03 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: badprofessor


We're not blocking traffic. We are traffic!



I am all for the cyclist awareness and safety being put forth, I even applaud the concept.  However, if you are traffic, shouldn't traffic laws apply?  Or is it perfectly okay in your mind to block intersections until the entire ride is through it, completely disregarding traffic laws?

Oh and to the side issue of automobile traffic being stopped, what about all of that extra fuel being burned just to idle while waiting?

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(in reply to badprofessor)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 6:53:02 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		It sounds a lot more like an ecoterrorist group than a bicycle awareness group. Why mob handicapped old people otherwise? With tactics like those a lot more bicyclists will suffer because they'll become hated. Note the guy who went out of his way to crush a couple of their bicycles - who didn't laugh when they saw that video...






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(in reply to badprofessor)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 6:54:00 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Needless to say, I dont Bike to work ... it's 50 miles or more. 
But .... I see them, oh wait ... that's avoid them daily, yes even on the interstate !
In their favor I will say that most stay to the right, use the bike paths and obey `most` of the law for traffic. 
It's those few bad apples that make the name like as in most things. 

ALTHOUGH... the little phuckers piss me off reguardless. 
When they license their bikes and pay taxes like the rest of us do for our modes of transportation I will be kinder. 



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(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:21:05 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2008/290708Cop.htm

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:29:40 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

This thread seems to be degenerating into an asinine cars versus bike debate with an awful lot of ignorance and speculation re: Critical Mass (or the naked version Critical Ass). For the record, this is now an international demonstration for cyclist rights carried on in most major cities on the planet. For a good overview, check the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass

We're not blocking traffic. We are traffic!


You're really living up to your handle there "badprofessor" by giving us a Wikipedia entry.  What's really funny is that a large section in the entry concerns Critical Mass riders' altercations with motorists and law enforcement in cities all over the world. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/29/2008 7:30:21 AM >

(in reply to badprofessor)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:45:49 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I used to ride in London's Critical Mass in the early Nineties.  I ran a car but also enjoyed cycling for fun.  I simply got tired of the way some motorists assumed that the roads were solely for their benefit and so justified their reckless driving.

It was great fun and we were always escorted by a couple of police on motorbikes.  Many drivers jumped out and tried to assault riders - usually small, female riders - and I remember fondly holding up the whole of Piccadilly with my bike over my head and a red-faced cabbie screaming racist insults in my ear.  The police intervened before he got hurt.  It was hugely enjoyable to take part in what is an entirely legitimate protest at the tyranny of the car and I'd recommend it to all those who could stand to lose a few pounds and cut down on smoking.

Anarchy in the UK.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 6:39:06 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		In the same manner that I can't help but feeling a weeeeee bit cynical about the motives of those who claim to be 'fighting the power' by throwing red paint on little old ladies in fur coats, but never on a bunch of bikers wearing leathers, I would love to see some video footage of what happened when these Critical Mass 'heros of the revolution' went with the courage of their convictions, and staged one of their 'actions' against noisy polluting gas burners at say, Sturgis, or Daytona, hell, even at the nearest NASCAR event parking lot... surely someone has such a record...

DomKen?  Badproffessor? Anybody? Bueller?  Bueller?

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 6:51:45 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Well, they're certainly getting some press tonight... seems a cop deliberately body checked a rider from CM, and then charged him with "resisting arrest." Only, there seems to be a few problems... after the cop submitted his report, (claiming the rider tried to run him down) phone cam video showed up showing the cop took the rider down without being provoked...(purgury)

More problems... the rider is a retired cop himself... and the son of some high muckity muck in federal counter terrorisim... Of course, it doesn't help that the video shows the rider is a smaller guy than the cop, and that the cop repeatedly nightsticks the rider after he's already down...

Again... when will these dopes realize that the old "DNC in Chicago" rules don't apply like they used to? You can't harass protesters, or "find an excuse to arrest someone" without someone catching it on video...

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:05:15 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Well, they're certainly getting some press tonight... seems a cop deliberately body checked a rider from CM, and then charged him with "resisting arrest." Only, there seems to be a few problems... after the cop submitted his report, (claiming the rider tried to run him down) phone cam video showed up showing the cop took the rider down without being provoked...(purgury)

More problems... the rider is a retired cop himself... and the son of some high muckity muck in federal counter terrorisim... Of course, it doesn't help that the video shows the rider is a smaller guy than the cop, and that the cop repeatedly nightsticks the rider after he's already down...

Again... when will these dopes realize that the old "DNC in Chicago" rules don't apply like they used to? You can't harass protesters, or "find an excuse to arrest someone" without someone catching it on video...


It certainly looks like the cop sped up to hit the cyclist who was steering around him....
At what time point did you see this repeated nightsticking?  And where did you get the information that the 29 year old cyclist was retired cop himself?

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:23:41 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		If this is the incident that happened in NYC, I saw the video.  In fact, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dFgPjRd34

Yeah, I'd say the cop was out of line.  But he doesn't beat on him with a nightstick, and I haven't heard anything in the news about him being an ex-cop. 

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:43:56 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		That video has been out for at least one day....

I got the feeling that the cop saw the cyclist do something pretty seriously wrong, or he was radioed a heads up about the guy - but still, it looked like the cop used excessive force. He could have ordered the guy to stop, I think, unless he thought the guy was holding a weapon. If he thought the cyclist had a weapon it wasn't excessive. 

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(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:52:08 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Knowing full well that these CriticalMass rides are heavily videotaped by police, media, and participants, I would have to wonder what apparently over-rode the cop's common sense.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 7:57:40 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 
The cop has lied in an official report .His ass is cooked.He`s no doubt called his union delegate and the PBA lawyers.

The cyclist? A veteran and average joe,who could have been seriously hurt by what the cop did.People have been paralyzed or had permanent neck/head injuries from bike falls,let alone being tackled.

Looks like a fun group.Men,women,families and old folks.

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President Obama

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 8:14:18 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Knowing full well that these CriticalMass rides are heavily videotaped by police, media, and participants, I would have to wonder what apparently over-rode the cop's common sense.


I have to agree with you on this one... I think there might have been something that occured off camera... especially if you watch the cops (both of them) actions.  Something drew them to this particular rider.

Just my opinion,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Critical Mass - 7/29/2008 10:51:17 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		The problems with the Critical Mass folks is the same problem way to many others have. They may have a legitimate message (in this case: please keep alert to, and be respectful of, cyclists) but they fail to understand that deliberately mistreating people is the worst way to get your message across. Your victim doesn’t focus on your message. They focus on the fact that you are mistreating them and your message becomes ancillary to that. In fact, your message becomes the trigger (because of the remembered mistreatment) for negative feeling toward the group with the message. It’s a complete backfire.

Given the obvious deficiency of the Deliver the Message via Mistreatment Method, why then do so many people (and I make no claims of innocence for myself) employ it so often? Alas, I believe, that it is human nature to enjoy inflicting fear and pain on our enemies (real or perceived). For some there is the added bonus of getting to play the victim – a sort of low level Munchausen Syndrom. The Critical Mass folks in the videos certainly seem to be afflicted with it.

As for the cop who pushed the bicyclist over, well it doesn’t look good for him. Sanity has a good point that there may be something we didn’t see. I’m always leery of short video clips. A short video clip can make an attacker who is losing look like the victim of a defender who is winning. I’m not saying that’s the case here, I’m just saying that – as a rule – the shorter a video clip, the more skeptical you should be about what you think you see. Not knowing the full details on this case, I am going to withhold judgment except to say (and by no means excusing the cop for any wrongdoing) that this is the kind of thing that happens when you promote antagonism. That which you sew...

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(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Critical Mass - 7/30/2008 3:40:59 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Knowing full well that these CriticalMass rides are heavily videotaped by police, media, and participants, I would have to wonder what apparently over-rode the cop's common sense.


I have to agree with you on this one... I think there might have been something that occured off camera... especially if you watch the cops (both of them) actions.  Something drew them to this particular rider.

Just my opinion,
Thadius



He was alone and not part of a larger group -- therefore vulnerable.

Standard NYPD tactic. Nothing new here -- except the videotape evidence of course...

on another issue: It's so hard to keep the real critical mass participants distinct from the Agent Provocateurs

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 60
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