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RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/14/2008 6:17:14 PM   
chasen


Posts: 7
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
  Just because this is a kink site, does that mean everything is acceptable?


I don't believe it is.  I've never been a firm believer in the train of thought that I should mindlessly accept what everybody else does just because I happen to take part in my own little niche.  There are things that people do that I don't necessarily approve of and there are even things that other people do that I condemn.  It's one of my rights as a human being.  I'm allowed to judge as I see fit.  Just as everybody else is.

DV's Fox

Good evening everyone

I have to agree with what was said here. I judge other people by my own set of standards. It matters very little to me how the 'general consensus' is flowing; I read, I listen, I judge. It's then my responsibility to decide if I can accept or discard what the other person does. Either way, I live with the result of my own decisions ; no one else.

(in reply to Shawn1066)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/14/2008 6:37:57 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline
quote:

quote:I am vanilla-challenged.  What do you prescribe? Take two episodes of The Brady Bunch and call me in the morning.


Isn't this just going to cause you to have sick fantasies about Marsha Brady? (If you are having sick fantasies about Cindy, you really are sick.)

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/14/2008 7:35:48 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am not fond of many governmental interferences in our sensual practices.  I do however, agree with some, like restrictions against adult/child sex for instance.  I am less fond of them butting into whether people are gathering in bdsm clubs.
But here, online in a public forum, we often get the negative label of being judgemental. <gasp, horrors!!>.. which amuses me to no end because we are not a governing party.  No one has to take what we say, negative or not, and change their life to suit.  Or, moan and cry in shock because people are judging them.  They act as if their rights have been trompled on because people do not agree with them.
Sheesh.
If people want to jump into odd quirks, twisted torment, or extreme behavior then they should accept that we don't have to like what they do, to comment.  When putting it out there for review, you take what you want and leave the rest.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I have no issue whatsoever with people deciding that something isn't their 'kink' and choosing not to participate. Where I -do- have an issue is when a person or group of people decide that, because -they- aren't comfortable with something, nobody should be allowed to do it.



< Message edited by Missokyst -- 7/14/2008 7:37:11 PM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/14/2008 8:22:59 PM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Still, at the same time, it is supposed that *everyone will be accepted*.  No matter how skewed there perceptions are, or what their kinks might be.  Let's really examine that.  How many are perfectly willing to say that YKINMY, but your kink is ok, when it starts talking about animals, or people who are not yet of proper age of consent, or a hundred other things?  Just because this is a kink site, does that mean everything is acceptable?


I am perfectly willing to say Your Kink Is Okay.  No kink is in and of itself bad or good - it just is.  The OK or Not-OK stuff is all about the way you act upon the kink.  For any activity or perversion you can name, there are okay and consensual ways to live it out and not-okay, nonconsesual ways to live it out.  I can kiss someone in a way that would be Not OK, but kidnap and rape them in a way that would be OK.  If I am kinked for a daddy/mommy role and live that out with partners who are legal adults with a complementary kink for behaving like babies or children, what's not okay?

Saying that anything consensual that other folks may do is okay with me doesn't mean that I accept anything they may choose to do.  It means that I accept that it's not up to me.  I figure that unless what folks are considering is so awful (like actual kidnapping or involving a child) that I'm going to intervene personally or call the authorities to prevent them from doing it, it's none of my business unless they're asking me for an opinion or inviting me to join in. 

I'm really rather dismayed at the number of folks here who seem to think that they are in a position to judge others.  It's pretty sad.  

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/14/2008 8:27:14 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Why yes, yes we are!!!!!!

Can we talk about the Hitler fetish I am thinking about in warm and fuzzy terms now?

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/14/2008 10:12:04 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am more likely to question why anyone who is secure in their kink would be offended when they are not universally accepted.  Being, and then relying on the affirmation of strangers on the net... now THAT is pretty sad.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

I'm really rather dismayed at the number of folks here who seem to think that they are in a position to judge others.  It's pretty sad.  

(in reply to MmeGigs)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 2:14:45 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't think PC (if such a thing ever existed, I personally think it's a made up strawman for neo-cons) was ever about being accepted.

It would have been about not limited people via the use of limiting language -- if sex, gender, race, age, etc truly isn't important then way use specific terms for them? Language not only reflects but shapes our perception of the world and our place in it.


When i was in outside industrial sales, i would always refer to my position as "salesman" and that would prompt people to remark "don't you mean saleswoman or salesperson?  To which i would reply, "It's just a name for a job, i should think my gender was both obvious and irrelevent."  i honestly feel the need to make everything gender neutral is silly. 

But PC has been elevated into a social taunting when a particular group uses descriptors that people outside the group cannot use on pain of some sort of punishment.  Barack Obama can refer to his grandmother as "A typical white woman."  but if McCain refered to Obama as "A typical mulatto" it would be the end of his run for President.

Back on topic.  i am entitled to not accept everything and everybody.  i may not be entitled to attack what i do not accept, but i do believe that there are some things that should not be accepted just because someone tries to include them under the umbrella of "kink". 

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(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 3:08:47 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Why yes, yes we are!!!!!!

Can we talk about the Hitler fetish I am thinking about in warm and fuzzy terms now?


okie... in warm fuzzy terms....

I'm thinking about a scene out of one of the Marx Brothers movies, where the guys are stow-a-ways on board a liner. They're being chased through the ship and somehow wind up in the on-board barber shop. They dress up like the barbers to hide. One of the officers of the ship comes in sporting a HUGE handlebar moustache and saying that he wants a shave.

Chico says "Oh no problem. You sit down here. We feex you right up."

And then, he and Harpo put a hot towl over  the guy's face and start shaving.

"oh, you cut that side a too short, You gotta take a leetle bit off thees side."
"Now, thees side jus right and that side ees-a too long, Take a leetle bit off that side."
"Now thes side just needs a leetle bit-a more trim "

and so on till the guy winds up sporting a Hitler moustache when he wakes up.

ok.. not fuzzy but funny.

juliet

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 4:56:23 AM   
Allondra


Posts: 68
Joined: 7/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

Take, for example, the term politically correct.  Sure, on the surface, this sounds like a wonderful idea.  That everyone will be accepted, no matter what their kinks are in the lifestyle.  How kumbiya of us.


In my experience, the term "politically correct" is usually used to "mock the idea that language that avoids offense can encourage, promote, or establish certain beneficial social outcomes and relationships", to quote the wiktionary definition.  It's a far cry from actual acceptance; it speaks more of how *unaccepting* we are behind our words. 

quote:

Still, at the same time, it is supposed that *everyone will be accepted*. 



Supposed by whom?  I didn't come here expecting to be accepted by everyone.  I'd be amazed (and suspect something's afoot) if I were.


quote:

No matter how skewed there perceptions are, or what their kinks might be.  Let's really examine that.  How many are perfectly willing to say that YKINMY, but your kink is ok, when it starts talking about animals, or people who are not yet of proper age of consent, or a hundred other things? 


How can someone's kink be any less ok than the colour of their eyes or the fact that they like the taste of raspberries?  If it's the same as my kink, cool, and if it's not, it's irrelevant to me.  It's a desire or way to look at the world, not an action.

quote:

Just because this is a kink site, does that mean everything is acceptable?


Should be*, but of course it isn't, because people are people here as they are elsewhere.  We're always sorting things into categories, and acceptable/unacceptable is a biggie. People who don't find acceptance for their kink here shouldn't be surprised.

*A "should" is my unenlightened way of expecting the world to suit me and only me.



(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 5:10:33 AM   
pinkwind


Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		Seems i have made myself unpopular around here with some that i have been straight and honest with, voicing my opinion.

i always look at forums like these as places where people go specifically to look for other opinions to their own, asking questions for others to answer. If such people then do not like certain opinions posted maybe they should have added in their original posts that they were either just looking for approbation for their own opinions, or say somewhere that they get pissy if folk think and voice things differently from them. At least then we who offer our opinions gladly would know to stay the hell away.

i already stay away from thread where it is obvious that folk only want a pat on the head, or a hug, no matter how they couch their OP. That's a given. Not for me to cosy up to strangers, that's what their friends are for. But when someone asks what looks like a decent and apposite question and touts for opinions they should expect as many differing ones as there are folk posting to their threads, and be happy that people took the time and trouble to think about someone else's situation, and come up with a decent enough response.

Nobody should expect that we all accept others kink, just because they themselves call it a kink, there are still things now that i fail to see as kink, so therefore the YKINMK correctness does not apply, and on a public board we all have a perfect right to be able to voice our own opinions, and not just post drivel because that's what we think is expected of us. Bugger that for a game of soldiers!

Ask questions on boards, expect answers you don't like.


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 6:57:48 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

I'm really rather dismayed at the number of folks here who seem to think that they are in a position to judge others.  It's pretty sad.  


And I don't see why that should dismay you.  People make judgments about others every single day, as has been noted by quite a few others.  I know I do...and I suspect if you took a good look at yourself, you would find that you do also...I do it professionally and I do it personally.  In the professional arena, it gives me insight and objectivity in determining whether or not I am going to be able to help a certain individual.  In the personal arena, it allows me to decide whether or not I will associate with someone, whether I will buy this car or that one, whether I will buy this watermelon or that one, etc., etc..  Every single person, vanilla or submissive, I have ever been involved with on a personal level made judgments regarding what type of man I was at the time, what type of dominant I was at the time, what type of human I was at the time.  It is those judgments, sometimes expressed and either agreed with/disagreed with, that has led to my own evolution.  Judgements, expressed as opinions or commentary by people I care about and by myself...for I do judge myself...continue to help me evolve.


(in reply to MmeGigs)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 7:36:44 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That's what I was trying to say, only you said it better.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 7:38:57 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That's what I was trying to say, only you said it better.


~bows to accept the richly-deserved accolades~ 

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 7:43:03 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Careful now, with that fat head you might get stuck that way. Head too heavy to lift and all.....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 7:50:26 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		~R.O.F.L.M.C.D.A.O.~

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 8:49:19 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		CDom, you actually did say it wonderfully.  (I just can't call you "CD".  It messes with My mind.)

I've said it before.  A person being kinky, doesn't mean their judgments are removed from their brain.  They ought to be using them, along with common sense.  Truth is, many times in life, you have to make a judgment call.

One part of this is, these really are message boards.  When someone brings a question or a comment to them, we don't get every detail of that person's life.  We get a quick window.  Ok, for some of us, it's a rather long-winded window, but it really is just a glimpse.  How it's seen through the eyes of the people catching that glimpse, and the way they respond, really is up to their own interpretation.  If you put it out there, you take what you get.  (Yes, I've had to do this Myself a few times.)

The other part of this is the "other side".  Just because the person on the other end of that screen is kinky, doesn't mean they necessarily want to be kinky with *you*.  They get to use any criteria that they want for not playing, or even talking to you.  That can mean age, height, weight, distance, moral code, color, poly, financial status, or even the idea that you remind them of their "creepy" uncle from when they were six.  I realize that some of these are entirely superficial, but it doesn't negate the fact that some people use these very things.  No one has to accept any offer that comes along.  (Yes, I get shot down, too.)

Being politically correct, and accepting everyone and everything, is never going to happen here.  Get used to it.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 9:04:07 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		This is, for me, at least, a rather difficult subject.
I try to make as few judgements as possible about things that are none of my business. By the make up of that sentence, if English is your first language, you should gather that I do make some.
I am offended by certain things. When I am offended, i try to look at it carefully and decide 'Why?' is it really any of my business.
I remember the most heart stopping two minutes of my life on this perspective. My son came out to me on his twenty-first birthday, at six in the morning, while i was driving him to work. As we got in the car, I said, 'Happy birthday, sweetie', and he said, 'Hey, yea, I'm twenty-one today. That's probably a good time to come out to your mom, don't you think.'
Now, I am well known for being disgustingly openminded. It's amazing my brain doesn't fall out of my left ear. (Okay, it does sometimes). So, he told me he was bi without blinking. After all, I'm out to him, and I'm bi - why would i have a problem with it?
Then he started hemming and hawing around. He said, 'I'm kind of scared to tell you the next part.' My heart stopped. considering my attitudes, what in the HELL could MY son want to tell me that he would be afraid to tell me. And the only thing I can think of - I'm thinking, Oh, God, He's going to tell me he's a pedophile. He's going to tell me that it's consensual - he's going to call himself a 'boy lover' or a 'girl lover' or something. Oh, God -
With a calm voice and a carefully arranged, calm face, I said, 'Darling, you know there is nothing you could ever tell me that would make me love you any less.' (That much, at any rate, was absolutely true.)
He said, 'Oh, I know that, Mom.' Then he tells me he is TV!
TV! Fucking TV!
I do not want my child's memories of coming out to me to be a bad memory, so I just smile at him and tell him i love him, and ignore the burning desire to smack him upside his head that is the exact same desire i had when he wandered off at the fair when he was eight! TV! Good God almighty, but who CARES what he WEARS? or who he marries? or who he fucks? I mean, as long as it's consensual, and he does EVENTUALLY get around to bringing me some grands ( if you are out there reading this, son, your mom wants to be a grandma. I know you didn't know that yet, so i thought I'd mention it here.)
He said, 'I was afraid of what your image would be of TVs, because of my Uncle.' I said, 'sweetie, I am deep enough in the alternative community to have several TG friends, none of whom are as crazy as your Uncle.' And he laughed and said, 'Oh, yea, of course you are - why didn't I think of that?' (Yea, BEFORE you stopped my heart)
It is true - as the survivor of childhood incest, i do have a judgement against those who use children for sexual gratification. Against those who use non-consenting partners. ( here is an issue - a LOT of different definitions of consent, in this big, wide world of ours...)
But MOST of the time, I do not have a judgement until it effects me. ('so you like <fill in the blank>? Oh, well, that's pretty cool? oh, you want ME to fill in your blank for you? Uh, I think i have some prejudices and judgements that are gonna kick in about now, about you and your blank...)
I will say, most of the rules in this world, social and attribute rules, have reasons - selfish reasons. Non-judgement, and PC, are just like any other social rule - you will be socially more successful with those attitudes. Otherwise, you will miss a few great friendships. But, as many have said, we all do. Lord knows how many intelligent, nice, creative pedophile i have missed the opportunity to be friends with, and i think i will just keep right on missing...

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 9:47:44 AM   
Coupleofwhats


Posts: 280
Joined: 6/4/2008
Status: offline 		Of course people are going to make judgements.

I think that submissives who are all grovel-y and "I am subhuman!" are ridiculous.

I find it weird and mildly offensive when people want to serve me just because I'm black.

Does that stop race play and groveling submission from going on? No.
At some point, you have to grow up and own what you like, and avoid the rest. If you're waiting for a 100% approval rating on your kinks, you'll die a disappointed person.

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 10:16:22 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

When i was in outside industrial sales, i would always refer to my position as "salesman" and that would prompt people to remark "don't you mean saleswoman or salesperson? To which i would reply, "It's just a name for a job, i should think my gender was both obvious and irrelevent." i honestly feel the need to make everything gender neutral is silly.

But PC has been elevated into a social taunting when a particular group uses descriptors that people outside the group cannot use on pain of some sort of punishment. Barack Obama can refer to his grandmother as "A typical white woman." but if McCain refered to Obama as "A typical mulatto" it would be the end of his run for President.

Back on topic. i am entitled to not accept everything and everybody. i may not be entitled to attack what i do not accept, but i do believe that there are some things that should not be accepted just because someone tries to include them under the umbrella of "kink".



Really?

I recall Obama had to have a few conferences after he said that about his grandmother.

PC isn't about one group using terms to talk about themselves verses another... PC is a political strawman that has been elevated to pseudo-fact.

As I told my nephew when he was using a certain word in public and got the crap beaten out of him -- "They weren't right to beat you up but you need to take responsibility when you use language that offends people. Rather than crying about it, think about the words you are using."

I think too many folks love the idea of being able say whatever they want without any consequences but I don't think that reflects human reality, not now, not ever.

If the fictional PC was an attempt to get people to think about the language they use, then cool, we all could do with a bit more thinking before acting I fear.

As for the people who asked you why you called yourself a salesman... unless they work with you or especially above you, why was it any of their business and what real authority could they have over you? If they were customers I supposed telling them to buzz off would have negative consequences but unless someone in authority was forcing you to call yourself something you didn't want to... why is it a real issue? Did it make you feel bad or less than when asked? Did it make you feel angry or tired? Feelings are consequences but their questions to you may have range in motivation from curiosity to sadism but i doubt it was any real attempt to promote anything called "being PC" because they probably don't have a clue about that entire cultural war BS that they heard bandied about in the mass media.

Umbrella of kink and this fictional PC, as my original attempted to point out, are two very different things. I think we collectively do ourselves a disservice when when try to lump them together.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Nowhere in BDSM will you find PC - 7/15/2008 10:17:30 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't think PC (if such a thing ever existed, I personally think it's a made up strawman for neo-cons) was ever about being accepted.

It would have been about not limited people via the use of limiting language -- if sex, gender, race, age, etc truly isn't important then way use specific terms for them? Language not only reflects but shapes our perception of the world and our place in it.


This is my thought, as well.

As for being accepted and being judgmental, it is my opinion that there is a difference between judging someone and what they do, and being an asshole about judging someone and what they do.  "I can't wrap my mind around, or accept that particular situation as being OK" versus "Anyone who does that is a mentally ill idiot."

As for what I personally can accept or not - if no one is being harmed, go for it.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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