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RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 4:57:18 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I know for me, as someone who entered the scene in San Franscisco, as "common sense" as this is it isn't well presented in the literature or much of the education.  Not only that, have you ever READ the forums here? 

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 6/21/2008 5:01:38 PM >

(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 5:44:22 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I know for me, as someone who entered the scene in San Franscisco, as "common sense" as this is it isn't well presented in the literature or much of the education.  Not only that, have you ever READ the forums here? 


Why SimpleMichael, is this addressed to little ol' moi?

Well I know for me, someone who entered this life at birth (I don't do scenes),
one either has common sense about all they do, regardless of the pharisaic (or
otherwise) documentation or teachings of those whom shout from the rooftops
or whisper from the darkest corners of the room, with or without the best intention.

Yes, I read, I listen, I learn, encompassing and processing as I see fit.

How else do you think I acquired the knowledge to get under their skin?

I linger in sloth to bestow pedestal status upon the God like creatures before me.

So often they crumble in utterly disappointing failure amid their festooned words.

Often I see an amazing Dominant within you Michael.

Other times I simply see a man.

It is there I am reminded of my own weakness.

Submissive to whom? Submissive to what?

Dominant to whom? Dominant to what?

Like it or not, both must exist.

However they exist.

Evolution not withstanding.

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 6:03:44 PM   
oblige


Posts: 38
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for responding to my post. I guess and perhaps I did not state that your OP statement below explains to me what  seems obvious (in context to me) when ever anyone observes any conversation between others:

"My partner gives that not because I order it or because I am "serious" or any of the other traps that newbies fall into but instead she loves that treatment from me because she has come to know and rely on the fact that it is tempered by how I protect/spoil/focus on her."

A key term to me here is: "...come to know and rely on the fact..."  Some people do not take time or energy to "come to know..." My guess is, as has been stated here in many forum topics, some new to lifestyle people or those who prefer black and white rules may have large or fed by fantasy concepts of bdsm, and or maybe some lack of common human relationship sense?

You said, "but if you read the forums, someone sure seems to be fucking something up. " I would say that both people in any relationship or group dynamic fuck things up.

It looks to me like sometimes some s-types are so in a state of desire, and/or some D-types are so gifted in thier (verbal or typed) skills at manipulation that the two meet and plunge in, perhaps ignoring much community wisdom and/or common sense-- thus issues arise? (and then some are only doing this online, not having seen/done it in action ,or done any research and or are just...trying to re-invent the D/s, M/s, bdsm wheel? )

What confused me when totally new here were the acronyms and jargon, but I just tend to look stuff up online, ask questions and read books a lot.

Michael, I think, if you are ever smart enough to facilitate a group again or teach, things will go however they are meant to go, and those who will integrate will integrate well. Some folks I have noticed  as a  teacher/facilitator myself are just not (often not at first) the "join in and get it" type.

I have no specific ways I have seen that any of you more experienced tend to confuse newbies here or in face time.

To me, it is each person's responsibility for  success or challenges, which was in the back of my mind when I posted earlier.

I have always enjoyed your input here.

Be well~ oblige






_____________________________

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go." (TS Elliot)

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/25/2008 2:03:54 PM   
BurntRose


Posts: 6
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		As someone relatively new to the scene, I think that initiating any relationship bdsm or othewise is down to common sense, if anything having read through various topics and discussions, I feel less likely just to jump into a situation or relationship...

It is obvious to me that many people here have long established relationships that have their own quirks and ways of working together and they have obviously had to work together to get there. As a newbie it is my responsibility to determine my limits in myself and through discussion with prospective partners. In my opinion anyone who jumps into the deepend because of what they see others doing without considering what they really want before hand are just asking for trouble.

(in reply to oblige)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/25/2008 4:20:57 PM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		We all just gotta' be who we are, where we are.
 
I've been to enough new meetings to know that when I go in and take a seat I need to shut up for a while and listen.  Some of what I hear is not going to make any sense and some is going to make perfect sense and alot in between.  I take what I can use and keep listening.  There are always going to be people there that know more than I do and less than I do.  Wall flowers, assholes and most that fall somewhere inbetween......When I walk in I take on the responsibility of diciphering that for myself.

I share what I have and of who I am.  It's all I expect of anyone else sitting there .
 
I personally wouldn't want anyone catering to the needs of any particular group, newbie or not.  That filter may very well be robbing me, or someone around me, of some vital info that needed to be heard and needed to be said.
 
 
 
 

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/25/2008 4:35:12 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I haven't been confused. It wasn't all serious at first or all the time. It ended when its all said and done  because it was a LDR. It was no mystery. I also did not see a newbie Dom, but I'm pretty sure that any number of crap problems could have come up at any given time regardless of experience.

I was born in the day but not today.

I will tell you what just confused the crap out of me. Reading through a post and trying to figure out if the two words that I have been accostomed to seeing as different definitions are being used interchangeably at the moment.  It took two read throughs and when I figured it out it made sense. No, its not about a one true way, its merely how the world was categorized in my mind and for my benefit. Nor at any given time did I say.........they aren't saying it right. I can't believe that I actually had to add that.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/25/2008 10:27:13 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
Fast Reply:
 
A jerk is a jerk is a jerk, whether it's a guy, meeting a girl for a benign first date at a coffee shop or something more serious.  If a man (or a woman) doesn't have the social skills to be able to communicate appropriately and effectively with someone he/she has just met or barely knows, then he/she is likely to end up going home alone and never having another date with that person.
 
Every relationship is different and unique and when two (or more) people enter into an intimate relationship they develop a communication style that is unique to them and that they understand and appreciate and works for them, even though it wouldn't likely work for any other couple.  Some couples, who have been together for many years, seem to have their own language, that others don't even understand.  Some couples communicate with each other in a way that sounds, (to outsiders), like they are fighting with each other but, that's just how their communication style has developed and, for them, it works.
 
Maybe, because i have never been "in the scene" and have only been in relationships, i have never actually met a "newbie" and have only met people and we got to know each other first and learned enough about the other to have a feel for how best to communicate with the other, both playfully and seriously.  In fact, the only "newbies" i have ever known were wearing a diaper, sucking milk from my nipple and didn't have much hair.  Oh, and they weighed less than 9 pounds.  It makes me wonder if the "newbies" in "the scene" have some special marking that make them standout, so as to be easily identified, as such.
 
But, really, don't the adults who enter into "the scene" already know how to be in a relationship with another person and how to communicate with someone they are interested in having a relationship with?  Just because a relationship has BD/SM as an element, even a prime element, shouldn't cause a person to forget how to communicate and relate to another person in an intimate way.
 
For someone to try to copy the way they see another relationship operating or the way someone else treats or talks to their intimate partner is stupid and not likely to result in a positive outcome.  Being themself and speaking in their own voice, in my opinion, works much better, in the long run.
 
Just my thoughts on all this "newbie" weirdness............
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

_____________________________

Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. ~Dr. Howard Thurman

(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 1:27:46 AM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		The newbie term is becoming passe'.  I think you need to call  a spade a spade.  Clueless is what some people should be called.   Some people want to remain innocent;  Trying to be intentionally clueless. 

I think alot of people, the majority on here, have solid points.  Alot of good reading.  People have a different way of going about things.  Just because one relationship decides to do things X way, doesn't make it the only or correct way of doing things.  There are many paths up the mountain.  Some harder than others, but they all get to the top.

My brother had a solid relationship and we were talking about double dating.  He brought up the topic of doing inane things; the only point being to annoy me and my date.   Like touching pinkies and staring into each other's eyes, etc.  The point wasn't that they had this level of commitment, it was they were smug about it and the point was to annoy.  It makes me wonder how much of this is with the BDSM also.  Sure you can call her bitch and she gets hot hearing the words, but its said within earshot of me intentionally?  I think voyeurism is definitely a possibility with alot of people that want to flaunt their relationships.  Or they are actively looking to add more people to ::spice:: things up.  How many people are enough?

A guy might fantasize about having a slave harem.  Actually having one though, with all the women headaches that goes along with having one, is more of a nightmare.
Call me sick and perverted, but one woman is enough for me.  ;0

::puts on the innocent look::

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 2:00:59 AM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline 		It is interesting indeed, the expectations / concerns of newbies.  My very first real-life exposure (outside my bedroom)  to all this stuff was going to a munch in northern California.  Now, I can't quite say what I expected, but I remember standing outside the restaurant, looking in through the window trying to figure out which group was the once full of dangerous sadomasochists and fetish freaks.  When I went inside and met the group, I was shocked by how normal, blue collar, and basically .... harmless they all were.

These days, when I meet a submissive new to the lifestyle, I find she's often taken aback by how polite, normal, considerate, and patient I am.  Once or twice I've even had a woman comment later that I couldn't possibly be a sadist, since I was nice during dinner, it must all be an act. 

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 2:19:43 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Yes, you're right.  Newbies see things through newbie eyes and tend to misinterpret.


I don't find it a newbie exclusive trait.  Some new peeps have their hed screwed on ok whilst some old timers tend to generalise and misinterpret.

quote:

Oh well, that's their loss.  Either they learn or they run away or they pronounce everyone they don't understand as bad and evil.


Absolutely their loss.  I'm not into pandering to everyone or anyone personally.  And again, newbies are't the only minority to do that.
It's a people thing, not exclusive to a minority.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 2:50:06 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		T'is a very good point Michael makes. Often when asked a direct question about one single aspect of what We do, especialy those of Us in higher level Dynamics such as M/s, the straight answer can sound harsh or extreme, yet in practice, in the context of the overall relationship it is anything but.

Sure I can be playing with My girl, lean over with My lips next to her ear, lower My voice and "I made you bleed bitch!".... wham.. instant puddle. But that is because of the trust, chemistry and Dynamic that is there between us. Sure I can play HARD (People seem to think I play hard in public... that ain't half as hard as We play in private) and she isn't allowed to safeword simply because she maybe feel she has had enough... it isn't her choise! But I've taken months learning My girls reactions, becoming able to read her body and also her learning to trust in that, trust that I can read her... to the point she now has more faith in My judgement about what she can take than her own, which maybe warped in either direction by fear or her maso streak.

The straight answer to something as simple as how much privacy she is 'allowed' from Me... None... that leaves out the security she draws from the fact that Not only did I agree to take up every part of her life... but that I activly involve Myself and am interested in EVERY bit. Doing exactly what I said I would do!

The straight answer to what her limits are... she has none... That doesn't mean there are no limits within the relationship, she lives (and plays) within My limits and does so comfortably because she trusts in My limits to keep her safe.

All too often the newbie just sees the out of context, base answer and thinks that is the way things should be... no, that is the way things CAN be, but there are no short cuts, You have to put the work in to set the context whereby these things have their place.

As with so much, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 10:03:38 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

Once or twice I've even had a woman comment later that I couldn't possibly be a sadist, since I was nice during dinner, it must all be an act. 



ok .. I will vouch for this .... even I fall for it on ocassion.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 12:42:43 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Ahhhhhhhhhhh, but it isn't always a newbie thing, Michael.  Look how many people on a couple of threads similar to this one are confused over things like submission because you agreed to it and not because the dominant is doing it "your" way, on the difference between a dominant taking charge and being abusive, between dominants being lazy or the submissive being in a frenzy, etc..  We all have our thoughts and opinions and sometimes, people can read something that a person posts and they don't stop to think back to other posts that this person has written before and put it into context, they focus on that post thus resulting in a need to clarify further. 

It IS all about context sometimes.  What I might say to the woman who was my first submissive is certainly not what I would say to a submissive I was meeting for the first time.  Nor is what I would do with either one.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 12:52:11 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
funniest thing I ever heard was 'Am I dominant enough for you?"....The best Dominants I know don't take themselves too seriously...but make no mistake that they can put a s.a.m. in their place with just a look...


_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/26/2008 3:36:20 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		~fast reply~
Simply because a person is new to the community or to the "lifestyle"....doesnt make them new to life. When i see a post from a 40 year old woman crying because she is penniless and stranded hundreds of miles from her home, betrayed and "abandoned" and wondering how it all happened...i shake my head.
Fantasy and reality.....

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)
Profile   Post #: 55
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