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How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:27:30 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I was making a post earlier and I ended it with "harsh" words about how I treat my woman. If you were new and had no perspective, you would read them and think "wow, that dude is harsh/serious/extreme (or a blowhard) but they would all be wrong (except perhaps for the blowhard comment) because they don't see that harshness in context. My partner gives that not because I order it or because I am "serious" or any of the other traps that newbies fall into but instead she loves that treatment from me because she has come to know and rely on the fact that it is tempered by how I protect/spoil/focus on her.

BSB and I were talking earlier about how idiot vanilla guys run ads saying "I am horny, call me babe" as if someone with no connection to them is going to be turned on by that. However, if I tell BSB "I am horny, call me" my phone is going to start ringing.

Newbies see that sort of extreme behavior from more experienced/lucky dominants with partners and emulate it but miss the context in which it occurs. I speak to and flirt with BSB now in ways that would have pissed her the fuck off if I had done them earlier prior to our relationship becoming solid and us having the time to learn to trust each other. They can't see the context between us and emulate the surface behavior instead of creating that context

Submissives do the same thing, they seek someone who acts all serious and intense without seeing that I and others have soft sides that we don't expose to the masses. So the newbie doms who chest thump get all sorts of newbie chicks, both wondering what the fuck happened when things don't work out. I mean they DID all that "serious" stuff the other couples did! They don't see the context in which it works.

So, does this resonate with anyone or am I up too late without enough air conditioning?

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 6/20/2008 10:31:15 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:31:54 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I'm not the sort of feller going to get terribly upset about shit like this.

6

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 2

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:36:49 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

i tend to hear the following sentence...."please dont mistake my respectful/common courtesy/honest human interaction...as weakness" from dominant men who are approaching me appropriately and from a position of 2 people meeting for the first few times in their new relationship. i laugh and assure them that this could never be misconstrued as weakness and that this is how 2 people meet and interact.
Makes me wonder why common decency is twisted into weakness in someones perception.
i mean really. when it comes down to it we're all just trying to make an honest connection with another. Why would members of this community think that being real could be weak?

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 3

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:40:12 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

What is your point exactly?

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 4

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:48:12 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I was making a post earlier and I ended it with "harsh" words about how I treat my woman. If you were new and had no perspective, you would read them and think "wow, that dude is harsh/serious/extreme (or a blowhard) but they would all be wrong (except perhaps for the blowhard comment) because they don't see that harshness in context. My partner gives that not because I order it or because I am "serious" or any of the other traps that newbies fall into but instead she loves that treatment from me because she has come to know and rely on the fact that it is tempered by how I protect/spoil/focus on her.

BSB and I were talking earlier about how idiot vanilla guys run ads saying "I am horny, call me babe" as if someone with no connection to them is going to be turned on by that. However, if I tell BSB "I am horny, call me" my phone is going to start ringing.

Newbies see that sort of extreme behavior from more experienced/lucky dominants with partners and emulate it but miss the context in which it occurs. I speak to and flirt with BSB now in ways that would have pissed her the fuck off if I had done them earlier prior to our relationship becoming solid and us having the time to learn to trust each other. They can't see the context between us and emulate the surface behavior instead of creating that context

Submissives do the same thing, they seek someone who acts all serious and intense without seeing that I and others have soft sides that we don't expose to the masses. So the newbie doms who chest thump get all sorts of newbie chicks, both wondering what the fuck happened when things don't work out. I mean they DID all that "serious" stuff the other couples did! They don't see the context in which it works.

So, does this resonate with anyone or am I up too late without enough air conditioning?

No A/C?

How completely f**king awful, Michael!

i was very fortunate.

i found a Mentor within the first couple of weeks i was on CM, the only D/s site i knew of at the time. He was very protective of me and an excellent teacher.

i also did not leave my 'bullsh*t meter at the door when i found D/s; it still works, lol.

So, i have never responded to 'LordMasteroftheUniverse' Doms.

That's not to say i haven't made many mistakes.

i've violated the safety rules my Mentor taught me and gotten myself into some very tight situations, though i've managed to avoid any serious harm.

i've 'fallen' for Doms i've never met because They were so good at IM and phone.

S'times i've heard references to a fetish or kink for the first time and reacted badly, annoying some P/pl.

i'm still learning -- i think that will never stop, not even after i'm collared.

But i managed to get through the earliest stages of submission relatively unscathed -- and i know i was lucky.

pinksugarsub

P.S. If i can help You with the 'no A/C' thing in any way, please feel free to email me on the side.

_____________________________

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 5

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:55:55 PM

WhisperSupremacy

Posts: 74
Joined: 4/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

What is your point exactly?

I think he's trying to say the newbies suck. heh heh.

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 6

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 10:58:30 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Yes, you're right. Newbies see things through newbie eyes and tend to misinterpret.

Oh well, that's their loss. Either they learn or they run away or they pronounce everyone they don't understand as bad and evil.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 7

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 11:01:14 PM

NeedingMore220

Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

I just turned on the A/C - it's too hot to get to sleep, so I thought I'd treat myself...

That being said, I think newbies often put on behavior and acts which seem to be what they are 'supposed' to do which other newbies can't see through, so they wind up together, and as you said, wonder why it didn't work out. It's a relationship, with both sides showing weaknesses to one another over time. I wouldn't want a Dominant who was always chest-thumping. And the Dominant I am with wouldn't want a submissive who was always on her knees ... everything in balance.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 8

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 11:37:13 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

The OP did a great job of saying if your in a LTR and say call me and getting a call. If you just said to someone you just met prolly not so likely. Most ppl just entering a "anything"don't need the obvious explained to them like there a two year old. Typically ppl starting any new adventure keep their mouth shut and eyes open.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to NeedingMore220)

Post #: 9

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/20/2008 11:59:55 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

I can see where you are coming from. I tend to hold back a LOT at first and then gradually get more and more....uh...."intense". You have to let people loosen up boundaries with you first. Some things I have held back and not explored, because of a lack of the deepness of connection that I felt was approrpriate that unfortanely, ultimately, never formed.

But I thought all that was....uh....."common sense"?

You know....don't drag her up the stairs by her hair, rip her clothes off, piss in her mouth, and rape her on the second date....

Edited to Add : Maybe on the third if they ask you inside for coffeee...

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/21/2008 12:01:11 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 10

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 12:02:22 AM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

So, does this resonate with anyone or am I up too late without enough air conditioning?

First off, I'm in North County San Diego with zero A/C, so I feel your pain on that!

On topic, you are quite correct, but it is not the fault of the experienced posters nor the newcomers. I can see this from both sides, as I am a newcomer to this lifestyle but an old hand at dedicated communities in areas that have a substantial "learning curve" to them. While much is posted/ said about the intermediate steps involved in getting a spectacular result, many newbs are so anxious to dive right in and make something "perfect" that they skip over the information about setting the foundation, earning trust, potential problems, etc. Someone new may see posts by couples like you and BSB or Merc and Beth, and think all they need to do is imitate the actions to get a relationship like that for themselves. The fact is that such newbs have come in late in the movie, and missed the background. They will learn soon enough that there are no shortcuts finding the perfect relationship. The ones who are sincere will learn, the ones who aren't willing to put forth the effort to create something real, won't.

This is really just human nature and the limitations of an online forum.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 11

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 12:06:36 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

More thoughts....

I have this mental image of some guy out on his first meeting with a potential submissive, sitting across from her over a cup of coffee....

He thinks to himself "Hmm...well....it works for SimplyMichael..."

Then reaches across the table, calls her a dumb cunt, and slaps her...

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 12

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 12:11:26 AM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

He thinks to himself "Hmm...well....it works for SimplyMichael..."
Then reaches across the table, calls her a dumb cunt, and slaps her...

Fast forward to the ER where her spike heel is surgically removed from his ass... lesson learned.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 6/21/2008 12:12:40 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 13

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 12:38:02 AM

adrian28

Posts: 833
Joined: 3/8/2008
Status: offline

I have a friend who ran into me a few nights ago and asked where my girl was. I told him that she was at home tied up and he thought that he should try it with his gf. The next morning he had to explain to the girl's father why she got tied up in her sleep.

Common sense is such a rare commodity.....

_____________________________

Dragon of Lust- Adrian
True to my own sense of integrity - Adrian Hayes

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 14

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 5:18:38 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Yes, that is confusing to newbies. I remember it was one of the things that confused me. I would read on the one hand that submission was about absolute obedience and then read that a sub had to communicate limits. huh? Well it took a while but I figured out what was going on, and yes, it is a matter of context. Most of the discussion of extreme activities and the expectation of absolute obedience were from Dom/mes in long term relationships who had spent time growing the trust and communication.

But then the whole thing is pretty confusing if you think about it. People are tied up and beaten, humiliated, called names, degraded and generally abused, and they like it! What could be more confusing than that?

(in reply to adrian28)

Post #: 15

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 6:17:17 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

I don't know whether this is a newbie thing or not. My guess is that some people are never going to get "it" no matter how much experience they have.

I was involved with someone for a while who wasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, a newbie at least judging by how he weilded a flogger (I know, its a skill a reasonably coordinated monkey can learn, but it still takes some time to figure out). I overheard him making the off-hand comment to a friend of his that I was gullible, apparantly having made the fatal mistake that my willingness to suspend disbelief in the interests of furthering a D/s dynamic was nothing more than simple gullibility. (Of course, I made the fatal mistake of suspending disbelief when I obviously shouldn't have.) His disrespect manifested itself not just in his tendency to talk behind my back, but in the fact that he didn't even bother to lower his voice on that occasion. It was as if I wasn't even in the room.

As you say, context is key. The sort of disrespect that manifested itself in the above example could have a positive imact in a greater context of mutual respect and shared understanding. That sort of objectification in a secure, established relationship has its place. But, it's not a starting point and its not something that can be assumed or taken for granted. In the wrong context, it becomes simple mysogny.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 16

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 6:23:42 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

I think that newbies often believe that a Dom/me cannot make a mistake, or be human. They may also feel that the exact same statement or action will always bring about the same results. Saying something as simple as. "I miss you", might one day be greeted by, "It always makes me happy to hear my sub/slave misses me" and another day with, "I know you're there and I will contact you when I am ready". Both are dominant things to say; the top just has different things going on in their own life at the different times.

Another misconception in newcomers is that some feel they need to kneel to every Dom/me - not so, only to your own unless your own has instructed you to act that way. "On your knees, bitch" will get a very different response from me depending upon who is saying it. Coming from a vanilla man I'd probably smile and ask if I should also get out my magnifying glass so that I could see him. : )

_____________________________

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 17

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 6:24:57 AM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

Sunny day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street

Today, the letter "D"

Soooo, Dominants aren't angry, egotistical, authority hungry smartasses then?

I for one am soooo relieved, thank you Michael, thank you so much.

Burt, Ernie, come here, you're never going to believe what I just learned.

Come and play
Everythings A-okay
Friendly neighbors there
That's where we meet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street

tickle me chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 18

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 6:47:57 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

I think Michael makes a good point ... often people simulate what they see on the outside without even a thought to what groundwrok went into getting there .. and this is most common from newbies

but it extends further ... people with experience take a look at surface behaviour - think how it would go for them - and then judge the original behaviour based on their context rather than the original context. The path Couple A travelled to get to Activity Z will have been very different to the path travelled by Couple B. Couple A may have found or created skills/experiences/equipment that mean Activity X is a wonderful enriching experience, Couple B might be terrified of it.

Unless you interact first hand with a couple, it is almost impossible to understand or empathise with the dynamic at work, and as such often "getting" what is going on just wont happen. When I try first hand to explain my relationship with DV .. it never works people just dont get it, because they were not party to all the steps it took to get us to here, all the decisions we made and agreements we came to. Therefore imitaing our behavour once we are here is more likely than not .. just going to end in mayhem.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to chiaThePet)

Post #: 19

RE: How we confuse newbies - 6/21/2008 6:58:38 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

But then the whole thing is pretty confusing if you think about it. People are tied up and beaten, humiliated, called names, degraded and generally abused, and they like it! What could be more confusing than that?

Yadda. That's why I think assuming its a newbie thing is a mistake. Objectively, its confusing and I don't think experience alone will reduce the confusion.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 20

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