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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 6:55:35 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

b. forward personalities 
c. Smart ass sense of humor
d. Enjoyment of "the fight" as you call it.


Owner, ever watch the 1930's movies called "The Thin Man" ....EXACTLY that dynamic! 

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 7:36:58 AM   
SleepyDom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Sleepydom

quote:

Really, I want to say there's no power dynamics at all but sadomasochistic dynamics because neither one has power over the other at any time.  Because that would mean submission.


Stop thinking in such black and white terms, roles are not that rigid in most relationships, things ebb and flow. 


You're completely missing my point.  Sigh.  By power dynamics I mean one giving the other power or control.  As I understand it and as Owner has confirmed, this does not exist in that relationship he's talking about, no ebb and flow at all, simply no power exchange period.  Yes, black and white if you want to put it that way.  It IS black and white in that regard, so why shouldn't I think black and white?

Owner:

No domination but a kind of domination game, ok, I understand that.  Anyway, I know I have zero masochistic tendencies, so that's not appealing to me but it does sound interesting.  I think I'd enjoy playing the domination game almost as much as domination (in the way resistance or even play resistance from a submissive is often fun) but obviously what's not appealing is the domination game being played on me--I would simply get offended and tell her to fuck off.  Probably.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 8:25:03 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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I do have to totally agree with SimpleMicheal on this one.  "Stop thinking in such black and white terms, roles are not that rigid in most relationships"

BDSM is full of general labels, and concepts.  Actually the only thing really rigid are the things you want/desire/need for it to be.

It's ok, if you want to step outside the box of what many other people do.  Easy to do when you think in terms of what you want, desire or need.   Everything is not about one wayisms.  Everything is not always black and white.

The things I have expressed on this thread, may or may apply to others peoples lives, mindsets or match up with their own experiences.

For instance, I'm certain there are other variations on DOM couples relationships.  If I had to honestly use labels to define my couple relationship.  It would be something such as  "Smart Ass Sadomaso Dom Couples".   That would be a more accurate picture.   However, we were not always Smart Asses with each other and other people all the time, all our play did not evol around SadoMaso play.  At times we both had Dom spin down.   Sure we might have trashed the kitchen, living room and bathroom having fun.  Amazing thing happens, when you've burned off a lot of engery.   You just want to Chill out, relax, do absolutely nothing, nice to lounge around, even moments of enjoying the sounds of a rainy day.

We have laughed at the messes we created around the house, we even have regretted some of the messes, and yes even the things that got broken by accident. But things like that happen when you do a lot of rough housing.  Thing being broken by accident, in itself was part of the relationship dynamic.  This was our choice to live life like this.  Some people find rough housing totally unacceptable, they would fucking have a heart attack if something got broke by accident.

Since, this was part of our dynamic, we figured out quicky, where not to place nicknacks and things like that.  Perhaps us using up all the shampoo, conditioner, shaving cream and whatever else in the bathroom was a waste of money.  We had to replace things.  But it was our money, our life and our choice.   In many regards, you could consider some of the things we did to be a form of age playing.  Because we were not acting like adults, we behaved more like KIDS at times.   So anybody that said, you guys act worse then a pair of Kids, Well... hahahah.. you know something you are right.  Hell, we'd go out of our way to Act like kids in front of them.  Trust me the last thing you want to do, is tell a DOM couple how they should or should not being living life.

Now, when her and I first got together, we did not sit down and plan everything out, and have it all black and white.  In many ways the things that we did, just evoled over time.   The stupid coin tossing protocol, that was not there right from the get go.  Basically her and I were figuring things out for ourselves, and making things up as needed.

In terms of Love, well it's love when you both can hurt each other (pretty badly at times), bandage each other up in the bathroom, or sitting on the edge of the bed, or kitchen chair.  Feel their warm and affection.   Ok, this might sound stupid again, just taking care of each others Boo Boo's brought us close together.   First Aid, itself being a topping and bottoming activitity.  Let me digress here for a moment.   The bottom recieving attention like they were a kid that got hurt and had boo boo's that needed to be taken care of.   For the top role it felt more like being a parent taking care of a child.   First Aid, actually gave us both a warm and fuzzy sensation.   We took turns and did mutual aftercare.   What a concept? Aftercare turning into a top/bottom activitity, with a spin and twist of AGE Play on it!   

Wow, I can't I've expressed this much detail.  I hope this gives you a somewhat deeper understanding for some of the dynamics, things that perhaps can be hard to understand.  

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 8:31:57 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

b. forward personalities 
c. Smart ass sense of humor
d. Enjoyment of "the fight" as you call it.


Owner, ever watch the 1930's movies called "The Thin Man" ....EXACTLY that dynamic! 

No... I can't say that I ever recall seeing it before.  I'll have to make it a point to check it out. thank you.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 8:44:47 AM   
SleepyDom


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I do understand it.  I don't know why you and michael keep accusing me of thinking in black and white.  I don't.  Unless it IS black and white.  And it is in that regard where there is no power exchange.  (Or are you saying there IS?  In whatever non-black-and-white way?)  This is what helped to understand it, that you're playing domination and the top/bottom roles, but no actual domination/submission/power exchange.  I'm saying it's non-D/s, non-powerexchange, not because there's something wrong with it or because it shouldn't be that way, but because it is.  No need to get defensive about that.  If this doesn't make sense, then I'll just shut up and leave the thread and stop wasting my time or yours.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 8:57:48 AM   
subexploring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

b. forward personalities 
c. Smart ass sense of humor
d. Enjoyment of "the fight" as you call it.


Owner, ever watch the 1930's movies called "The Thin Man" ....EXACTLY that dynamic! 


Plus functional alcoholism...try counting up the number of cocktails they drink in those movies. I'd be lying on the couch drooling after just the stuff they put away before noon. Our ancestors, tougher than you think!

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 9:07:34 AM   
RedMagic1


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I've seen quite a few Dommes say, "There isn't a submissive bone in my body," and I can understand why.  They get hit with 75 million guys figuring it's a domly-cool challenge to try to get them to submit.  My current fave is the guy who offered to dominate one of the regular posters on the down-low so she could "preserve her reputation" as a Domme.

But on the other hand, I have to ask: Really?  You've never wanted someone you trust tell you not to worry, just get dressed and look sexy while they make the business decisions and pay all the bills?  You've never wanted to do something for your partner just to see their face or hear their adorable noises?  I sure have.  Me be untwue yet again, I suppose.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 9:24:25 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleepyDom

I do understand it.  I don't know why you and michael keep accusing me of thinking in black and white.  I don't.  Unless it IS black and white.  And it is in that regard where there is no power exchange.  (Or are you saying there IS?  In whatever non-black-and-white way?)  This is what helped to understand it, that you're playing domination and the top/bottom roles, but no actual domination/submission/power exchange.  I'm saying it's non-D/s, non-powerexchange, not because there's something wrong with it or because it shouldn't be that way, but because it is.  No need to get defensive about that.  If this doesn't make sense, then I'll just shut up and leave the thread and stop wasting my time or yours.


Best way to describe the Power Exchange involved!  She gives me part of her power, and I give her part of my Power.  Think of two circles drawn side by side.  Move the circles towards one another, then overlap them, overlap it some more as time progresses.  The Power Exchange Overlaps is what I'm trying to express here.  Combined Power Acting as One Force.  Our relationship was built on the engery of combined power that was exchanged equally between us.

Here's another deep thought way of looking at it.   Think of it like equal D/s.  In as much as she submits to me, I submit to her, as much control I take, I give to her the same.   Let's attempt to illustrate the idea;

We did things that we might not else done or experienced with a submissive partner.   Such as taking back and forth turns smacking each others asses, it getting more and more intense. 

Basically, I submitted my ass for her to smack, and she submiited hers.  I wacked her ass, and She wacked my Ass.   Do you see the overlap of exchanged power.   Why it's like two circles that over-lap.   The overlap between two circles is always Equal.   This is the general idea.   

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 9:44:23 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Sleepy, if you need labels try this...

BSB and I are both dominant although she submits to me.  When she has been particularly good or I just want to spoil her, I bottom to her a bit.  An example:

We were fucking one time after a party and she was looking all hot in those hi-heel boots and she was all turned on but I wanted to blow her mind...so I started sucking on the heels of her boots while staring her in the eyes as I fucked the shit out of her, it turned her on so much I let her dig those heels into my nipples enough that she could see the pain in my eyes....her orgasms were rather nice I recall.

I LET her do that, so I was in control but she was hurting me and I was doing submissive acts for her, she was turned on by the thought of dominating me but at the same time excited that I was granting permission to my slave to do something hot, and she felt all taken care of and loved for every part of her being.

I could care less what labels you want to tack on to the above, all I give a shit about is that we have the best time ever with each other.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 9:49:17 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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There's a bit of confusion.  There's D/s as the relationship structure itself.  Not to be confused with Topping and being the Bottom in an activitity engaged in.

For instance, let's say, I own a slave, and I make her take a flogger to my back.  Does this somehow make not own the slave that is flogging my back?  Remember, I have a Maso streak, this actually gives me a sense of release and I find pleasure in it.   I am clearly the bottom of physical activity.   However does this some how poof magical not make me the DOM in the relationship itself?   Now, I have not give the slave free reign over my body.  The slave is following a specific order, for a specific action to do.  By no means are they allowed to take control over me.  They simply obey.

Now when it comes to activities between two Doms, regardless of who's on top or not at the time.  OK, let say, she massages my back for an hour.  Now, her turn for something she wants done to her.  Let's say wants me to flog her body for an hour.  Ok, we're all done.  Nice even exchange of things.   Mind you I know full damn well, how she likes to be flogged, Just as much as she knows how I enjoy my back massage. 

Ok, So we act like a pair of service tops!

Now let's break out of the service top mentality for a moment.   We can exchange kinks, like people exchange trading cards.  I'll let you do this to me, if you let me do this to you?  We are talking about the mutal exchange of being on the bottom for activities that we are not all the crazy about.  So we made a deal.

OK, here's one for you!
Just plain feel like doing something because we know the other person will enjoy it.  Generally, they end up returning the favor some time as well.

The thing is that we Maintain our relationship as a DOM couple.   OK, our activities are somewhat Switchy at times.  For the most part we keep things on Equal footing. Even if it might not seem like it. 

Hence why I say this is the closest I've been in a True 50/50 relationship.... 

< Message edited by Owner4SexSlave -- 5/17/2008 9:53:39 AM >

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 10:04:29 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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One more thought.  Everything I'm tossing out are Generalization of how things worked....   this is how it was most of time but not all the time....

Even moments such as birthdays... Holidays and stuff like that...

Everything was not always exactly 50/50... but it was close.. or it would even out..



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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 2:57:56 PM   
slavegirljoy


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Fast (not brief) Reply to OP:  i'm not much into generalizations, where intimate relationships are concerned, so, i will simply respond to what you have written by sharing some of what i have experienced in my relationships.
 
First, i have been in several relationships, over the years, in which Bondage & Discipline and Sadomasochism was essential and, in most of them there was very little Domination and submission.  In fact, about the only time i was dominated was during sexual activity (and, i consider all of my BD/SM activities to be sexual).  That wasn't because i was only a 'bedroom submissive'.  i wanted to be dominated completely.  But, as it turned out, i was with 'bedroom Dominants', although i didn't realize it at the time, especially since i didn't know of those terms or ideas back then.  Those men just had no interest in dominating me in any area of my life or our relationship, outside of getting their kink (and mine) fulfilled.  This was very frustrating for me because i have always had a deep need to be totally dominated in every way.  And, since i would never tell a man to dominate me or to dominate me more, because that's a total turn-off for me, i had to give up each of those relationships and keep looking for a man who would take control of me and my life completely and, by his own initiative and desire.
 
Second, i have been in relationships with some non-kinky (vanilla, in my view) guys who were more dominant with me than any of those 'bedroom Doms' were with me.  Unfortunately, i love BD/SM very much and vanilla sex bores me to tears.  i would rather go six months without any sex and then get a good beating and such, than to "make love" 6 times a day, with no rough stuff.  And, again, because i can't stand the thought of telling a man what i would like him to do to me, i ended those relationships so that i could search for a man who would take me hard, take me to the edge, take me over the edge, take me anyway he wants and, take complete control of me.
 
Third, from what i have seen, many relationships (whether vanilla or kinky) have some sort of power structure inherent to them.  And, from my experience and observation, many people in vanilla relationships never discuss the power structure of their relationship with each other and, instead they just allow things to develop, as they will.  Sometimes, one person might take the leadership position and the other simply accepts it.  But, others might have regular power struggles and they go back and forth between one being in charge, and then the other taking the upper hand, maybe by using bribes of giving the other something they want or by threats of withholding something that the other wants.  This kind of thing drives me nuts and i have always refused to be a part of this sort of relationship. 
 
Luckily for me, i got a good tip about this site and i was able to find The Man who would be my Master and would take ownership of me completely and who also loves S&M as much as i do.   
 
One of the things that i like most about my M/s relationship is that the power structure was clearly defined upfront and there has never been any question about where my place is in this relationship and i never have had to guess about what i should do.  That's a huge relief for me and it frees me to spend my mental and emotional energies on other things.
 
No, things aren't either black or white, all of the time.  Life is dynamic and to try to have a relationship that isn't dynamic and that has the roles too rigidly installed doesn't allow room for people to grow as individuals or as a couple or to be able to adjust to the changes that life naturally brings about.  There is a flexibility in how He and i relate to each other.  He gives me 'free reign' in the areas that He has charged me with being responsible for, such as the kitchen and the laundry and, He talks with me about decisions and listens to my ideas and, sometimes even likes an idea i offer and uses it but, there is never any doubt that He is the Boss of me and what He says, goes. 
 
This is a perfect fit for me and i no longer feel like a square peg trying to squeeze into a round hole.  At last, i have found my place in this world and it feels great.  It's too bad that it took me until i was almost 50 before finding it but, better late than never.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/17/2008 7:40:59 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure how you can reconcile the two statements you made. First one saying that having to deal with her needs, quirks, limits etc is bullshit, and second that you have to get deep into her mind. Because limits, quirks, self protection are things coming from her mind. If you can't deal with them, then how can you get into her to a full degree?


The things I wrote are a contrast between  1. Vanilla without clear dynamics 2. M/s with clear dynamics  3. Dom Couple again with more clear dynamics..

Needs, Quirks and limits and bullshit, can get really crazy in a Vanilla context.. when you are struggling for power.   In D/s, M/s the Power Dynamics is worked out.   In Dom Couples the Power is Shared Power.   I think perhaps, I lost you in the contrasts I was using...

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/18/2008 6:54:20 PM   
Lumus


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Well, I haven't shot myself in the foot recently, so why not post here.

If I'm understanding the initial [and consequently expounded and expanded] concept addressed, the share of power isn't really all that alien.  It even occurs in the more classic M/s-D/s dynamics...unless there are more D- and M-types out there who like to be responsible for the shopping and household chores than I'm aware of.  [Hey.  It is a form of power.  I have little problem imagining a slighted SAM buying groceries and hiding all the favourite foods of their owner in the back of the cupboards...]  As to the sexual aspect(s), I've heard of maso Dominants before, so the exchange of sexual action [not necessarily control] is out there, if not advertised often...

It could be a fun dynamic, with, I'm sure, as many drawbacks as anything else.  If it's your thing, go for it.


_____________________________

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~ the other half of "L&L" ~

I have been dubbed the Rainmaker. Do not make me take your water for my tribe.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/18/2008 10:31:34 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave
My point, here is that I experienced something called FREEDOM, basically freedom to be who I am.  I honestly don't see too many DOM's mention this word when it comes to D/s or M/s.  Actually, if anything I see on many sub/slave profiles.  But I oh so totally relate to it, and understand exactly what is meant by it.   It's a bit of a Paradox that a M/s relationship is or can be full of Freedom.  It's a strange sort of Oxymoron.  It's something however, until you have lived it, you really don't understand nor can you appreciate it, let alone desire it fully again.  At least for me, this was the case.



It has been my experience that when a person first finds and enjoys the experience to be who they are... they feel a incredible sense of freedom.   I don't see it as an Paradox or an Oxymoron.  I think we spend so much time being social conditioned how to behave and what values to have... that we often find it difficult to determine how we Want to behave and What values we actually believe in.  I see our breaking of social conditioning and actually accepting deciding to be who we are and not how we are conditioned as a point of Freedom. 

I will add one last thought.  It has been my experience that beyond that feeling of Freedom comes a point of Peace.  When we reach a point of Freedom, the efforts and struggles to get there are fresh.  We are full of excitment.. and sometimes even full of ourselves.  But as the taste of victory becomes a distance memory and we continue to enjoy the freedom... a sense of peace can begin to take hold.  You just begin to be you.  You can't help being you anymore than the sun can stop from rising the next morning.  Their is a beautiful sense of confidence and security in feeling that peace.  This is not to say you stop working and striving to be a better person... but being a better person is just part of the choices you will make.  You might stumble... but you get up because that is what you will do.  It's peaceful just to be You. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/18/2008 11:53:04 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Sleepy, if you need labels try this...

BSB and I are both dominant although she submits to me.  When she has been particularly good or I just want to spoil her, I bottom to her a bit.  An example:

We were fucking one time after a party and she was looking all hot in those hi-heel boots and she was all turned on but I wanted to blow her mind...so I started sucking on the heels of her boots while staring her in the eyes as I fucked the shit out of her, it turned her on so much I let her dig those heels into my nipples enough that she could see the pain in my eyes....her orgasms were rather nice I recall.

I LET her do that, so I was in control but she was hurting me and I was doing submissive acts for her, she was turned on by the thought of dominating me but at the same time excited that I was granting permission to my slave to do something hot, and she felt all taken care of and loved for every part of her being.

I could care less what labels you want to tack on to the above, all I give a shit about is that we have the best time ever with each other.

Holy cow!.... Master and I can totally relate to this line of thinking....I'm never not me...and He is always Master....we just enjoy each other in MANY ways, and don't worry if its not in a neat little box.

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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/18/2008 11:54:58 PM   
Justme696


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Sleepy, if you need labels try this...

BSB and I are both dominant although she submits to me.  When she has been particularly good or I just want to spoil her, I bottom to her a bit.  An example:

We were fucking one time after a party and she was looking all hot in those hi-heel boots and she was all turned on but I wanted to blow her mind...so I started sucking on the heels of her boots while staring her in the eyes as I fucked the shit out of her, it turned her on so much I let her dig those heels into my nipples enough that she could see the pain in my eyes....her orgasms were rather nice I recall.

I LET her do that, so I was in control but she was hurting me and I was doing submissive acts for her, she was turned on by the thought of dominating me but at the same time excited that I was granting permission to my slave to do something hot, and she felt all taken care of and loved for every part of her being.

I could care less what labels you want to tack on to the above, all I give a shit about is that we have the best time ever with each other.


that is a great example..loved it.


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RE: Power Dynamics - 5/19/2008 12:47:36 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
It has been my experience that when a person first finds and enjoys the experience to be who they are... they feel a incredible sense of freedom.   I don't see it as an Paradox or an Oxymoron.  I think we spend so much time being social conditioned how to behave and what values to have... that we often find it difficult to determine how we Want to behave and What values we actually believe in.  I see our breaking of social conditioning and actually accepting deciding to be who we are and not how we are conditioned as a point of Freedom. 

I will add one last thought.  It has been my experience that beyond that feeling of Freedom comes a point of Peace.  When we reach a point of Freedom, the efforts and struggles to get there are fresh.  We are full of excitment.. and sometimes even full of ourselves.  But as the taste of victory becomes a distance memory and we continue to enjoy the freedom... a sense of peace can begin to take hold.  You just begin to be you.  You can't help being you anymore than the sun can stop from rising the next morning.  Their is a beautiful sense of confidence and security in feeling that peace.  This is not to say you stop working and striving to be a better person... but being a better person is just part of the choices you will make.  You might stumble... but you get up because that is what you will do.  It's peaceful just to be You. 


KnightsofMist, your response truely hit home with a few things I have been struggling with lately.  Actually in so many ways, what you wrote nearly sums it up completely.

Growing up as child, the struggles and the social adjustments, dealing with dark things inside my mind, adjustments to social conditioning. Life was a bitch in many ways for me a kid, then again who really has a perfect childhood.  I just know the things that were going on inside my mind were not the same things going on inside all the other kids minds at time.  The ultimate moral code of salvation, cause nobody any true or real harm.  Still the darkness burning inside my mind.  Doing really bad things to girls, it was something far more besides sex, however sexually it excieted me.  Fantasies, lots and lots of things and desires going on inside my mind and soul.  Confusion though.  Why do I think such evil thoughts, yet at the same time, do not want to cause anybody any real harm.  My fantasies and my own morals fighting around in circles inside my mind at times.  Life as a kid.

Teenage years, still more fantasies, nothing has changed.  Interests in Magic tricks, rope tricks, playing guitar, creative sides coming more to light, drawing, painting, making things.  I'm explore more creative outlets in life.  Then my friend.  One of best friends, a steady daily constant in my life.  She was the proverbial Girl next door.  Innocent activities we'd do together, slowly becoming transformed.  Making candles holders from coke bottles, hot dripping wax.  next thing you know it.  Hey this feels good.  We get into doing a lot of Wax play, to the point of being almost totally naked.  Getting Wax all over my floor on time, I had to spend hours cleaning it up afterwards. 

Magic tricks and rope escape tricks, leading into Bondage.  She was my assistent.  Amazing things happen when a Magician has an Assistent.  Slowly but surely, exploring more and more.  To the point of making a homemade bed of nails.  I even tried it out on myself.  Think it was the result of watching too many things on TV, but those things sparked something, more like sit it off.  She could not wait to try it out.  To lay on the bed of nails. 

Then there was the old bull whip that was out in the Shed.  Perhaps, again from watching too much Zorro on TV.   We both enjoyed screwing around with the WHIP.  Crack Crack.. right on each others back.  We had a lot of sexual energy going on, however we never had intercourse.  She wanted to hold onto her virginity.  Still, things got even more intense.  The day, she asked me if I would do something, she was fearful of asking me at first.  That I might think she was weird.  Ok, finally she felt comfortable enough to ask me the awkward question.  If I could rape her without going all the way.  If I could make it pretend but not really pretend.  My mind blown away, had to reprocess a lot that day inside my mind. 

Went and did it, until she reached the point of breaking down and crying, however I had seen the tears before from using wrestling around together.  Time out everything came to a hault, she wanted to be alone in her room for bit, she did not want me to leave the house.  So I went downstairs and waited.  Trying to process everything I did just did to somebody, make sense of it all.  It had been part of those dark fantasies going on inside my head.  Turns out she had laid in bed and masterbated her brains out, after this had happened.  We talked and she was worried that I thought she was weird, for having me do that to her.  That's when I opened up and explained to her, that I have a lot of fantasies about raping somebody, and kidnapping and etc..  We both opened up to each other on different levels after that day. 

Then there was a saturday afternoon, she paid me a visit.  I remember this day really well too.  Then she sprung something new on me again.  A plastic bag over the head.  Took awhile to convince me of this.  She even demonstrated it out on herself.  Ok, I tried it over my head.  Getting a feel for what and how long was good.  We sat there just messing around with the bag and time limits and talking about things.  I myself had issues with how safe it was.  Then ok, let's incorperate it into acting out play rape. Complete with smacking her up and everything else, and the name calling.

God, this was all the stuff I was doing before I even got laid!  The came a few years later. 

I need to condense this post, fast forward, I was having sex and doing some crazy things with girlfriends.  Then it happened one night when I was stranded in someplace.  I went over to friends house, she was older and I knew her from Playing AD&D, she had a friend over (female friend).   They were drinking wine,  I was welcomed in and I ended up drinking wine with them, hanging out and bullshitting.   A couple remarks about kinky things came up, and I said... OH, I'm into that.  Next thing I knew, they were asking me lots and lots and questions.  Using Buzzwords and things I never really heard before.  Dom, switch, submissive and all those crazy words.   I felt lost and confused, asked them to explain.  I opened up and shared with them many of the crazy off the wall things I love to do, and had did.   Basically, that night was my "Welcome to the Lifestyle" night. 

Damn, I wish I could condense more..  The Lifestyle Relationships began!,  For some very painful reasoning, I then sore it all off, tried like hell to go vanilla.  Never being able to fully ditch or let go of the kink.  Still I had cut myself short on many of my darker fantasies.   I could have done those things.  I'm haunted by a few things.  The depth and levels and freedom and calm and peace, of an actual TPE (whatever you wanna label it) relationship.  It's difficult at times to fully be able to slap a label on it.  At times just simply slapping a few words on it, does not do justice alone.

Needless to say, when I turned my back on The Lifestyle, I stopped growing, never came to full self actualization in terms of a few things.  Those things still burned at my mind and my soul,  over the years.  Always on my mind.  Eating away at me inside.  Just doing enough kink and playing with things, but not to the point it MY Vanilla Self Image would crumble.

Hell, I could probally be making this post to a number of threads right now.  However, what KnightofMists wrote, nails much of what is truely on my mind.   I've been hammer off more and more of the Vanilla jello mold.  Trying to make reconnect to where I had last left off in terms of "The Lifestyle", not just the kink and sex.  Other things with deeper meaning.  Hell, even my music can be threaten at times in a Vanilla based lifestyle relationship.  The fears that I might hook up with some Groupie Girl, or fuck somebody that is hitting on me.  Then issues of Jealously, because I spent time practicing, playing the guitar.  Amazing never had an issue with this in any Lifestyle relationship.   I always had the Freedom to be who I was without much of a big deal.   I had Peace, yes!  I had Freedom.   I could be who I could be.

Now, yes, there are some kinks, I need to do, try, explore.  A few of them, I know I will enjoy without question.  They don't involve body part removal! or scat.   Actually they are not really all that bad.  I have been at odd, with again, dealing with letting go of that stupid Social Conditioning.   Yes, not everybody will be of the same mind here.   I know these topics can get rather touchy, and the reasoning why.  LOL....

Yes, swinging and sharing somebody.  Hard limits for people.  Watersports, that is a common limit for many as well.  I've done watersports but to a limited degree to where I want to go, and I'm not into pissing into a cup and making somebody drink.  OK, I'm just another Sicko here.  These two things, though have become a bit of a deal breaker for me.

Bad enough, that Knife play is hard limit for people.  Some people have this evil notion it means carving them up like a turkey.  I enjoy knife play, the activitiy is and can be rather diverse in itself.   Verbal Humilation, God, I love that to death at times.  I can get very very very let's say.. I Love to Push limits on that one.  Not a place that some can deal with.

I have an interest in exploring a little needle play! Labia's and Needles! you get the picture.  It's bad enough I have this thing for Lancets, pricking somebody.  Yes, it makes one bleed.   No Blood as a limit.  Again, another limit.  I'm not looking at slashing somebody up with deep cuts.  Still, Needle play on Labia's had been on my brain some.  I honestly don't know, the true extent that I would or can go with needle play.  It's something I don't have a lot of experience with.   Now Lancets, I'm perfectly comfortable with Jabbing myself or anybody else with.  Prick Prick Prick... 

Things such as Gas Masks, I really could care less about one way or another.  There are activities I have listed that are not deal breakers for me.  They are simply tools in my play chest.

There is a part of me that Misses the Freedom, and the peace.  I'm not saying I'm a loveless person, but the aspects of Freedom and Peace in many ways mean more to me then Love.   I went on the quest of picking love over a lifestyle, the series of events that unfolded were not good.   There was no Freedom and There was No peace.   For me, in many ways, there was no sanity.  

I'd rather be with a like minded Domme or with a slave.  Only in those two states have I discovered Freedom and Peace. 

Don't care if it's, a kinky activity, me playing music out in a band, to the small little things I do in life.  It's a matter of freedom and the peace that comes along with it.   There are other aspects as well.  It's difficult at times to fully express one thing without getting into another facet. 

There's a lot a great things that can be said for having clarity and understanding and structure in a relationship.  Something that is organized and structured.  

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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