RE: Mentorship!?

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littlebitxxx -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/15/2008 11:21:29 PM)
Question: Is it always Doms that mentor subs? I've heard of Doms mentoring other Doms and Doms mentoring subs but can a sub be mentored by another sub? Sort of to get the story from the same side of the kneel?

Skully7000 -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/15/2008 11:32:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx Question: Is it always Doms that mentor subs? I've heard of Doms mentoring other Doms and Doms mentoring subs but can a sub be mentored by another sub? Sort of to get the story from the same side of the kneel? why can't a Sub mentor a Dom? That would be one hell of a Service Sub, wouldn't it:)

ownedgirlie -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/15/2008 11:50:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx Question: Is it always Doms that mentor subs? I've heard of Doms mentoring other Doms and Doms mentoring subs but can a sub be mentored by another sub? Sort of to get the story from the same side of the kneel? Some of the best mentoring I've received has been from another slave.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 12:12:46 AM)
Mentorship is bad when it's actually "I want a free kinky fuck buddy" in disguise. Mentorship is good when it's, "Will you share with me what you know?" Sometimes, what's being shared is sexual, often times not. My opinion is the same when it comes to training; some people use both to negatively manipulate to get what they actually want and some people use it to learn. Master Fire

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 12:19:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx Question: Is it always Doms that mentor subs? I've heard of Doms mentoring other Doms and Doms mentoring subs but can a sub be mentored by another sub? Sort of to get the story from the same side of the kneel? First, let me clarify that I feel there is a difference between mentorship and teaching. Teaching is the sharing of knowledge. Mentorship is the sharing of knowledge while guiding an indiviual through set tasks or situations. In my opinion, the best MENTORING arrangements are between equals. That means, I prefer Doms to mentor Doms and slaves to mentor slaves. There's just a connection there that you don't get with cross-mentorship and the separation between "training vs fuck buddy" is very clear. This doesn't mean, however, that you can't learn stuff from cross-roles. I've learned a hell of a lot from my girl. But, when I want to be a better Master, I turn to Masters who I feel are more experienced than me. If their slaves also have good things to say, I listen and listen closely because that's simply being a good student of a good teacher...but it's the Master that I sought out for Mentorship. It's quite possible, as well, that the Mentor will assign me to a slave for learning and mentorship in some areas. I've got no problems with that at all...'cause it came from my Mentor. I think that makes sense. Master Fire

MaamJay -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 1:20:58 AM)
While I understand Your point MFM ... in a limited pool, might have to take what swims by! In which case, mentoring can occur in any of the combinations and I have seen egs of them all ... D to D, D to s, s to s and s to D! I don't think D to s mentoring ALWAYS has to lead to sex ... but then, I don't think bdsm play always has to lead to sex! Master has mentored a newbie fem sub and didn't go past negotiated sexual touching in the play aspects she wanted to experience, and I have mentored newbie male subs without it being overtly sexual too. I do some mentoring at a distance by setting up a reading and discussion program so newbies at least have a bit of a guided path through the plethora of material on the net. In that case, there IS no play and no opportunity for fucking ... it's mind expansion. I don't expect anyone to agree with Me on everything, I deliberately set it up so they have to express their ideas before I express Mine so they are encouraged to think things through for themselves. I have mentored new Dominants as well as subs and enjoy both. Two former subs are currently keen to become Dommes and I am only too happy to pass on ideas, hints, and to be there for them to explore their ideas with. My sub side has received a lot of mentoring over time from other subs near and far ... and also likes to do the same. And I have also seen subs very successfully mentor Doms ... perhaps more easily when they weren't THEIR Dominant ... they were a friend. I agree with the previous posts that say it can be good ... and it can be bad if used to intimidate, brainwash or predate ... but then, just about everything good can have a dark side if used inappropriately. For someone who loves to both teach and mentor (as defined by MFM above) ... I get a great feeling out of passing on what I have learned, it's a very sweet reward for Me. Maam Jay aka violet[A]

SimplyMichael -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 4:00:28 AM)
I think the concept of mentoring is wonderful, I think that a lot of wondeful mentoring goes on. However, those most eager to mentor, have, in my experience, been the ones I felt had the least to offer and the most alterior motives. Dominants mentoring submissives, in a culture that eroticises power, is a recipe for problems. When I offer advice to a dominant with a submissive, I make DAMN sure to do so in a way that enhances his power in the mind of his submissive rather than undermines it. Here is a test to find the good mentors. Watch for the ones that won't take their eyes off a young hottie but can't manage to give the time of day to a bbw.

Dnomyar -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 4:57:53 AM)
This post I have to get into. I have been Mentored. Thats how I got started here. I do Mentoring. I have'nt fucked those that I have mentored. Like what was mentioned above. Mentoring is the same as teaching. If I can help someone avoid the pitfalls I will. Some listen and some don't. I offer advice and then back off. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it. The same applies here. You do your best and hope that it turns out good. You can see that from these post. Some take the advice given and others ignore it.

mistoferin -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 6:30:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists so... do you see value in mentorship? Yes, sometimes. quote: Is always good? No. quote: is it always bad? No. quote: when do you think it is good? When people don't limit themselves to having one mentor. When we use the information we get from all of the people we come in contact with, run that information through our own common sense filter and apply what pertains or works best to our individual circumstance. quote: when do you think it is bad? When someone decidedly takes on the role of being someone's one and only mentor, thereby limiting them to one singular point of view or thought. When there is an ulterior motive such as sex or to cultivate that person for your own goals. quote: have you been mentored? Yes, although my mentors probably didn't realize they were mentoring me. Take for example yourself....I have learned much from you, although I highly doubt that you ever intended to be my mentor. There are many others right here on this thread (and even more on this site) that fall under that same mentorship category....LA, Bita, SimplyMichael, ownedgirlie, MasterFireMaam, MaamJay.....just to name a few. Many, many more in all of the places I have been in my life. quote: do you want to mentor others? Not as a goal, but I am certain that I have at times. quote: do you want to be mentored? Yes, in the same context as I have been doing it all along. quote: any other thoughts of mentorship in the lifestyle? I think it is frequently used in this lifestyle for all of the wrong reasons.

DesFIP -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 6:51:54 AM)
It's always good to bounce ideas off of people. You get feedback about possible additional ideas as well as thoughts about what won't work so well. I'm not sure a formal mentor is necessary. Just a group of people who you like, who tend to have the same attitudes that you do so there aren't a lot of mixed messages. Just identifying specific posters who say things you find yourself nodding your head along with are useful. Write them directly, applaud the post that caught your attention and ask them their thoughts on something. This way you could write one person about edge play, one about relationships, one about specific thought processing. Male and female, dom and sub. Everyone offers a slightly different viewpoint and the more info you get, the better.

akisha -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 7:52:42 AM)
~FR~ I do not believe in having a mentor, as in, one person that teaches you (supposedly) everything. I think if you want to learn something, you find the person or persons with in the local or in my case [:D], nearby, community and ask for the help you require to learn said skill. I think relying solely on some supposed more experienced person is extremely limiting. When it comes to anything in my life that I want to learn I avail myself to as much information or avenues of learning and research as I possibly can. I admit though I am a nerd hehe. I like researching things, I really enjoy talking to as many different people as I can so I can hear or see as many different opinions and ideas as possible then I take what i think is the best advice or if a skil I utilize the different things that work for me and put them together to make it my own. I do not like to put all my eggs in one basket per se. Variety and varying opinions and ideas are a wonderful thing. Especialy when there are so many different people that are very good at what they do but they all do it a little differently. I remember when my former Dom and I met someone we thought would be awesome to learn from. We had heard great things about him from a few different people. But when we actually met him wewere sorely dissapointed. I think if you are going to seek out others to help you learn, then there is more then one thing you need to look for. First being someone you can repsect on your own, not just going on what others have said to you. Watch them use their skill on someone else if possible first and formost to see if their technique is at all compatible with what you are interested in. I am TERRIFIED at the idea of branding. But this spring at Luper I watched a guy do one with a technique i would never have thought of. I got to stand right near the table and watch and it was awesome. Kind of takes away my mass fear of the idea and i admit piqued my interested in having one done at some point S I had only ever seen or heard of one type of branding, and the idea was a HELL NO for me. This is exactly why I think people need to seek out as much information as possible and find different people that are willing to show you things.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 8:02:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists so... do you see value in mentorship? Yes...to a very limited extent. quote: Is always good? is it always bad? or maybe it's good sometimes and bad sometimes? No. No. I would give a qualified yes to the good and a less qualified yes to the bad. Sadly, most of the time I have seen it has been as the result of a dominant mentoring a submissive who has also...oddly enough...learned how they "should" be doing sex with a dominant. quote: when do you think it is good?... when do you think it is bad? I think it is good when teaching is imparted. I think it is good when learning about the differing ways within D/s and about what each of the differing types of play within BDSM involve. But teaching someone about what the differing types of play involved in BDSM does not have to be hands-on. It can be taught through descriptions from various books and watching demos of various toys being played with. It can even be taught by doing it to the submissive. When does it become bad? In my opinion...and from what I can gather from others on here...Steel, Michael, etc....when sexual touching or fucking comes into play. Tell me...other than demonstrating to the submissive in a hands-on fashion that they get sexually aroused from play...as if they were not aware...or that sexual touching may come with play...again, as if they were not aware...what is being taught by the sexual involvement? It becomes bad when you have a submissive undergoing training that precludes them from interacting with other dominants. Why? If the interaction is not of the bad predatory type but simply a dominant expressing interest in getting to know a submissive, where is the harm? And is it not the job of a teacher to prepare a person to go out and deal with others? Or is the job of mentoring to tie the submissive to the mentor? quote: have you been mentored? do you want to mentor others? do you want to be mentored? Yes, I have been mentored. I was lucky in meeting a dominant soon after I got into this that recognized the "noob" in me quickly and he took me under his wing. I learned a hell of a lot from him and from a female dominant that did not have a hard-on against male dominants. My first submissive and I taught each other a lot through experimentation and a hell of a lot of reading. I continue to learn to this day from many dominants on here ...and several submissives...whose thoughts I respect. As for mentoring others, as long as it is not sexually based, sure...I would and have done so. any other thoughts of mentorship in the lifestyle? I said it above and in other threads on this subject. I don't care much for mentoring that involves sexual aspects or aspects of ownership. A mentor is a teacher, not a sex partner. Playing...as is so often said on here...does not have to involve sex and that includes...to ME anyway...sexual touching. The minute you touch someone sexually, the dynamic has changed. And let's be honest submissives...when you are being played with in a BDSM context, there is a level of submission felt. Add sexual touching or fucking into that and tell me that the temptation to feel more submissive to this person...who is your mentor, your teacher, NOT your dominant...is not there. I give as an example SandyShores' own words. (not picking on you, Sandy...just picking up on your post).

Stephann -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 9:49:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain Cutting to the core question fast, my problem is that I’ve never seen a Dom mentor a sub where he didn’t eventually end up fucking her. Not once. He may have first flogged her and spaced her to get her started in things, but then he fucked her. Get past that stonewall and I’ll have an open mind. I fuck the girl I'm mentoring. I don't think she'd be comfortable fucking someone else at this point in her life, and her sexuality is something we both enjoy. I didn't fuck her the first chance I got, and I had an open and honest conversation with her about sex, before we lept into it. Teaching someone about the lifestyle doesn't preclude a healthy emotional relationship. Certainly, there is a potential to take advantage of someone who is emotionally vulnerable, and it's something I'd take on a case by case basis. In our case, we developed a real friendship, which turned sexual, before we discussed any sort of mentorship role. Stephan

CalifChick -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 10:45:53 AM)
I consider a mentor to be someone to guide you into being/doing/acting like them. If I needed help being a successful businessperson, I would seek out a successful businessperson to mentor me. If I wanted to be a male Dominant, I would have a male Dominant for a mentor. I don't want to be a male Dominant, so I don't have a male Dominant as a mentor. Easy peasy. Cali

everhope -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 11:10:53 AM)
i was part of a D/s family when i first understood that i was submissive. it was a wonderful experience for me. the family consisted of both a male and a female Dominant and male and female submissives. they all mentored me...nobody fucked me. i was well prepared for what lay ahead of me outside of the safety net this family provided for me. may we all find our bliss, everhope

Sandyshores29718 -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/16/2008 3:41:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I give as an example SandyShores' own words. (not picking on you, Sandy...just picking up on your post). Oh, You are correct in this. The level of submission when some sexual touching happens does get stronger. But, at the end of the day i am not His sub and Hes not my Dom thats why we have not had sex. With the sexual touching we both wanted me to think of pain and pleasure as one and kinda trained my body for that. It is kinda like playing with fire i will say. Once while we were playing in my mind i got to the point of my body is no longer mine, but His to do with as He wishes. It still blows my mind. i think He and i see this, thats why we have slowed things down a bit and have took more on the i ask questions and He answers as well as He can.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/17/2008 7:30:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sandyshores29718 quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I give as an example SandyShores' own words. (not picking on you, Sandy...just picking up on your post). Oh, You are correct in this. The level of submission when some sexual touching happens does get stronger. But, at the end of the day i am not His sub and Hes not my Dom thats why we have not had sex. With the sexual touching we both wanted me to think of pain and pleasure as one and kinda trained my body for that. It is kinda like playing with fire i will say. Once while we were playing in my mind i got to the point of my body is no longer mine, but His to do with as He wishes. It still blows my mind. i think He and i see this, thats why we have slowed things down a bit and have took more on the i ask questions and He answers as well as He can. Your words, to me, perfectly indicate why I dislike the idea of male dominants mentoring female submissives. You say that he was sexually touching you but you did not have sex. What you are saying then...to put it in a cruder yet more straightforward fashion...is that he was feeling you up and finger-fucking you but not completing it by using his cock...and the non-use of his cock made it NOT having sex? In all honesty, that reminds me of the girls who have never fucked someone but have done everything else who want to call themselves virgins. As for training your body and your mind to associate pain with pleasure, ask other submissives on here whether or not sexual pleasure can be aroused through pain with NO touching taking place. And finally...a purely objective question: Who should train a submissive to experience and associate the pleasure of his touch with the pain that he brings? Who should have the pleasure of that initial experience, the wonder of it? The dominant you choose to be yours or the one who is not going to be yours but is supposed to be teaching you about D/s and BDSM?

MaamJay -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/17/2008 7:43:20 AM)
That's a very narrow definition of sexual touching Creative D ... oddly so for someone whose nick has to do with creativity! In My earlier post, I referred to Master having mentored a new fem sub with negotiated sexual touching in the play aspects she wanted to experience. However by that I certainly didn't mean the specific acts you referred to ... I meant that He touched her breasts in order to do rope bondage (which she had seen pics of and wanted very much to know how painful it was) ... and He gave her a bare-ass spanking that she also wanted to experience (believing it would be terribly painful ... she was pleasantly surprised). While people leap to conclusions as to what something means without actually clarifying ... mentoring, especially of a fem sub by a male Dom is going to continue to get bad press from those who can't believe that someone can be led to water and actually choose not to drink! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

CreativeDominant -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/17/2008 7:54:48 AM)
Good point Ma'am Jay...and I will concede that the touching you describe...while definitely of body parts is not sexual in nature. Perhaps I should have clarified by turning my statement into a question about what type of touching she was referring to. I can only defend myself by stating that her own statements about the touching leading to a feeling of her body not belonging to her any longer but belonging to him would indicate...to me, not necessarily anyone else...that the touching was of a more sexually intimate manner. And I should have asked her to clarify that before I stated it.

Dnomyar -> RE: Mentorship!? (4/17/2008 8:00:02 AM)
I strongly disagree that you should bypass Mentorship and go straight to a Dom. I know several sub/slaves on CM who thought that. Some are even on these forums once in a while. There are just as many bad Dom's on here as there are good ones. If your new I think that you should talk it over with several people before you jump into a relationship. But some don't listen and we end up with the drama queens on here.

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