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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 9:17:58 AM   
Poetryinpain


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Joined: 3/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Then again, some people just like putting each other down.  If you say the photo is mild, then surely you think you're better than the rest.  If you say the photo looks scary, then surely you're inexperienced and don't know what you're talking about on BDSM topics!  So perhaps people just jump to criticisms before they are criticized first.

Amen!

pip, 'nuff said

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 9:18:05 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		They do it because a small percentage of idiot tops and bottoms give them reason to.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 9:23:03 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		We do tend to be a society who caters to the lowest common denominator.  I remember hanging upside down on monkey bars with asphalt beneath me.  Now you have to have a cushion of wood chips or something just to protect a child who stumbles as he walks.  You aren't old enough to recall the type of roller skates that attached to the bottom of your shoes with a skate key.. but let me tell you it is NOT pleasant to have it come loose as you are soaring down a hill. 

The thing is though.. we survived without safety police.  People actually had to learn what they were comfortable doing, and feeling safe doing.  I found early on that bike riding was not for me after slamming into the back of a car, on a bike that was too tall for my size.  I didn't ride another until I was 30, because that arm broken in 2 places was a nice little fear factor that stayed in place to protect me.

Stupid people who engage in stupid stuff with stupid partners, choose to take those chances until they learn what it means to be broken.  I think we are failing people by not letting them find out maybe they should consider what they do, who they play with, and why they want to do them.  Safety police in my view only make people forget why something might be bad, and other people to do it in order to feel they are dangerous and exciting.

It isn't quite survival of the fitest, but maybe it might bring back common sense.  Somewhere along the road of being protected from harm, we lost the ability to see harm before we engage it.

Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

I think her main reaction is ...

What if the stupid people try this....


For Stupid people, who dont always have a willing partner (or a partner that doesnt fully understand) Where both parties HAVENT built trust, dont understand the risk and are just doing it because they saw it in a photo... >.<;; Not wonderful ... im going to go over there and hide and say once more, this is a really bad idea... a really really bad Idea.





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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 10:42:34 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Some people see something extreme and know they would never have the guts to try it so they attempt to make it look like a bad thing for everyone to do so they don't appear weak.



I think you might have a good point there. The whole "Look at how kinky i am.... I only don't do anything that is 'bad'"...


I also think that some people in the BDSM lifestyle have reasons to portray it as "safe" to the outside world. That's only possible by excluding anything a bit risky from BDSM.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 10:46:09 AM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974
I also think that some people in the BDSM lifestyle have reasons to portray it as "safe" to the outside world. That's only possible by excluding anything a bit risky from BDSM.


A differentiation should be made between actual risk and the perception of risk as well.  There are many activities people routinely engage in (smoking, driving cars, sports) that are much more likely to lead to injuries or death than most BDSM-related pursuits, yet they carry a lower perception of risk.

Perceived risk is not necessarily actual risk.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 10:46:33 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974
I also think that some people in the BDSM lifestyle have reasons to portray it as "safe" to the outside world. That's only possible by excluding anything a bit risky from BDSM.


Why? And most things are risky, tying someone up you could cut off circulation, spanking could induce internal bleeding or broken bones etc etc Hell you can get HIV or Hep from bodily fluids its more to do with what we SEE as being dangerous due to our own preconceptions


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 11:21:45 AM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Myst. I am in no way stupid, but I dont understand or have intelligence in Every area of Everything in Every part of Every lifestyle (Wow lots of Everys ^_^ I should get a cookie) Anywho, because if this I look to others who claim their knowledge of the subject. While I take these precautions and ask many not many do.

They take what they are told, espically when new or inexperienced, what they have seen in demos, or movies, its safe,  they have No Idea what it is they are doing, is Extremely dangerous( say in a knife play scene, or a whipping). In the photos on the site, there are hundreds of people around, making sure shes safe. In your home, theres you, and your partner.

The point of my post is monkey see, monkey do. While im not saying No dont do any risky behavior hell breathing can be risky at times. Maybe sites that have extreme photos should also post a link of risk assessments and sugesstions like rope shouldnt be kept this tight for more then X amount of time. Sure not everyone is going to click those links to learn, but even if one person does and then is not harmed later i think its worth the extra effort.

Dont police persay as well as inform.



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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 11:34:44 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

They take what they are told, espically when new or inexperienced, what they have seen in demos, or movies, its safe,  they have No Idea what it is they are doing, is Extremely dangerous( say in a knife play scene, or a whipping). In the photos on the site, there are hundreds of people around, making sure shes safe. In your home, theres you, and your partner.


Yeah, so? That's all I need.

quote:


Maybe sites that have extreme photos should also post a link of risk assessments and sugesstions like rope shouldnt be kept this tight for more then X amount of time.


While I do provide safety information on our own bondage website, I limit that to the basics, simply because you can't teach the more extreme stuff on-line. Providing risk information which is necessarily insufficient might actually give even more people the idea that they know enough to try it at home. So I won't. I might teach it in hand-on workshops though.

General suggestions like rope shouldn't be kept tight for more than X amount of time make no sense, because it's is completely dependend on how it's tied and where on the body and the people involved.

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 11:41:12 AM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Im talking about say you have a photo where the breasts are tied in a harness of sorts. The tied is tight Its ment to be tight I think the tie Im thinking of is called a cupcake harness im not sure but it ties around the breasts and can easily cut off circulation. A suggestion saying you shouldn't leave this tie on for more then say a half an hour to advoid serious harm to the body makes sense to me, a couple of the bondage books Ive looked at have some of these suggestions


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 12:06:43 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Im talking about say you have a photo where the breasts are tied in a harness of sorts. The tied is tight Its ment to be tight I think the tie Im thinking of is called a cupcake harness im not sure but it ties around the breasts and can easily cut off circulation. A suggestion saying you shouldn't leave this tie on for more then say a half an hour to advoid serious harm to the body makes sense to me, a couple of the bondage books Ive looked at have some of these suggestions


Yes exactly, in that situation I wouldn't even go for that long. But in other situations it might. But say, to tie someone in a hogtie and state a maximum time wouldn't make sense at all.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 1:34:09 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Once again I think this is why people need to fall.  If they were made to think, rather than seeing some website that says do this and there will be no harm.  If they were made to think, rather than relying on someone to do their thinking for them, then, they might appreciate being cautious.
We don't allow people to think anymore.  We have laws to keep us safe.  We have regulations to make sure no one leaves a brick out of place.  And why do we have them?  Because we are a litigous society.  Any harm happens and it goes to court for money damages.

If people were forced to think for themselves, such as in the hanging issue, they would know that it might not be something they want to do.

Let's look at my bike issue for instance.  I never peddled a bike again until I was 30.  But I rode them.  I was often on the handles of various boyfriends bikes, or on the bar, which is much more chancy than peddling.  But I saw my boyfriends ride other people that way.  I knew they could do it.  I trusted them to keep me safe, or at least not put me in deliberate harm.

I looked, learned, and developed trust, in the old fashioned way.  Without someone guiding me though it.
And that is what I am saying is lacking in modern society.  We rely too much on other people to tell us what is safe.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 2:01:31 PM   
Poetryinpain


Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline 		The problem with letting people go ahead and make mistakes and learn from them, when we're dealing with something like this, is that the mistakes can be damaging to life and limb. Yes, adults should be mature enough and intelligent enough to think things through and make informed decisions, but in a world in which people 'surf' on car hoods, 'toboggan' on mattresses, and do other stupid stuff - and then post videos on YouTube or even on TV, well, my opinion of people's intelligence and maturity plummets.

I personally ask questions. What is this going to do to me? How is this going to affect my body? Is it going to break the skin? Is it going to bruise deeply? I have health issues that need to be taken into consideration, and the most appropriate person to take them into consideration is me. But I expect the Dom to know the procedure and its possible effects.

pip, very cautious

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 2:06:43 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Caution is a good thing.  It is what keeps us aware.  And yes, what we do can cause damage to life and limb, but so do a lot of things. 
If only people would remember that, and not rely on the word, pic, vid, of another.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poetryinpain

pip, very cautious


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 2:26:25 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poetryinpain

The problem with letting people go ahead and make mistakes and learn from them, when we're dealing with something like this, is that the mistakes can be damaging to life and limb.



I especially prefer to let these people make their own mistakes! Natural selection is a powerful force, and I try to harness it whenever possible to achieve my ends.

If they kill themselves, they can't irritate me with their immense stupidity later, after all.

Ahem.


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 2:31:17 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		in the "monkey see monkey do"  attitude, what you call casualties is genetic selection in action.  Or to put it another way, if you are silly enough to do something that you saw in a photo, and get hurt, then you deserve what you get - or i guess, what your sub gets.

if  you are a responsible dom/domme, then before you try something new, you research it. If you don't you end up with a Darwin award.

my Sir has been known to beat a girl and have people around worried about what he is doing , because it looks extreme - and for some subs, it would be. But when the scene is finished the subs have thanked him - once they were able!  He has the experience to know what he is doing, and is able to read the bodylanguage of his girls.
Could you make a case that he shouldn't do what he does, because it borders on abuse? Sure, if you aren't aware of the background of the event, but as in everything else in life, sooner or later, you have to leave the training wheels off, and be an adult, and take some responsibility for what you do. 

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 2:33:35 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-26.html

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 4:07:35 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Kinky people tend to be ok with their general kinks.  Heck we've seen how amazingly divisive just calling someone "daddy" is, and there's zero physical or emotional abuse going on when it happens.


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 4:08:13 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

This is provoked by http://www.collarchat.com/m_1777817/tm.htm

Where by a rather tame (IMO) shot was subject to what I considered a complete over reaction. "OMG thats dangerous.... should we all be worried"

FFS folks, this isn't the womens institute where the most dangerous thing around is dropping a stich in your knitting! Quite a bit of WIITWD carrys inherent risk, often looking far far riskier from the outside. That risk is assessed, accomidated, reduced, constantly watched for and adjusted to avoid... by anyone with even a modicum of experience. With a bit of common sense nobody enters into much seriously risky unless they trust the other person, at least trusting their competance.

So WHY do folks default to 'panic' and assumptions of "oh thats dangerous" in a negative way?


Safer to revert to that.  Sometimes its because the person is new or they just haven't been exposed to a wide range of things (whether its SM styles or DS/MS relationship styles).

C~


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 4:13:04 PM   
Adelphus


Posts: 87
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorpha

People tend to be most afraid of what they don't understand.  I applaud the person who is confused and says, "hey, what do you think?"  They had every right to post here and to get opinions.




Which is what I did, so why is everyone getting so cranky?

quote:

Adelphus
Does this worry anyone else? I thought this sort of thing was ultra dangerous.


Does anyone even care that that's all I did??? My god, it's like 'shut up, you you nabby-pamby wannabe hater! How dare you question the supreme authority of porno?'
I didn't say, 'How dare they? Look at those freaks, hanging that poor women? What depraved lunatic thinks that's hot?'
Because I, for one, do think it's hot. Why the hell else would I be trolling these sites?
Jeeze....

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 4:25:54 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Sitation. Girl new to the life... lets call her.. Mittens.
   She finds herself someone shes been friends with for years and trusts completely that says, this activity is TOTALLY safe. She trusts him not to hurt her because of their history. He thinks its safe because he went on D/s message boards and everyone said. Its no big deal, its not even that kinky, its this that yada yada.
   The Demo done by a pro who Mittens owner went and saw as well Mittens. The girl thanked the Man who demoed after It demoed. Mittens owner showed her it was safe he was decent with a whip (well what Mittens Thought was safe)
   Mittens Still ended up in the hospital needing stitches on her wrist because Mittens Owner Aimed wrong...   
My point is and I think the reason why Adelphus made the post is because when 2 people new get into the life they dont know what they are doing all the time. They could be in essence Killed because someone thought that this *points to imaginary demo done by several people where everything was perfect and okay*  If others can do It why cant I. Many dont base what they see on reality but on fantasy. And I think thats why she reacted. I understand you cant police people. But You also have to look out for the people new in the life so that they get in situations you claim stupid.


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to Adelphus)
Profile   Post #: 40
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