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Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 3:52:03 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		This is provoked by http://www.collarchat.com/m_1777817/tm.htm

Where by a rather tame (IMO) shot was subject to what I considered a complete over reaction. "OMG thats dangerous.... should we all be worried"

FFS folks, this isn't the womens institute where the most dangerous thing around is dropping a stich in your knitting! Quite a bit of WIITWD carrys inherent risk, often looking far far riskier from the outside. That risk is assessed, accomidated, reduced, constantly watched for and adjusted to avoid... by anyone with even a modicum of experience. With a bit of common sense nobody enters into much seriously risky unless they trust the other person, at least trusting their competance.

So WHY do folks default to 'panic' and assumptions of "oh thats dangerous" in a negative way?

Unless there is something quite obviously wrong which shows someone is batting way past their competance level (Such as starting a suspenssion with the legs before securing the torso etc. resulting in the girl being about to go arse over tit and slam her head into the floor) then surely the default should be assuming that safety has been accounted for.... maybe not to your satisfaction, but certainly to the satisfaction of those involved, they are the ones involved in the scene, they will have assessed the risks and maybe their assessment differs from yours but then you aren't being asked to participate AND there are likely to be a multitude of things you don't know and can't see (Such as competance levels) that reduce any percieved risk.

Hell, I have a paddle which in itself provoked the "Thats dangerous" reaction from some just showing it to them. A large, thick, solid metal paddle.... funny, the playbunnies went white at the sight of it whilst the painsluts just went wet Yes is COULD break bones, quite easily, yes it could kill... but I'm not going to be hitting My girl round the HEAD with it!!! Used correctly... as the pain sluts who where there (and who knew Me) assumed, it gives a lovely deep THUD. I'm lucky in that I am well enough known where I go that people DO assume whatever it looks like, its going to be rational as they know I don't HARM what is Mine.

Is this 'panic' chicken little reaction just coming from newbies who have never heard of RACK? Or is it indicative of a "your kink is NOT OK" undertone?


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 4:18:43 AM   
RedAnhedonia


Posts: 50
Joined: 3/26/2008
Status: offline 		Being new to the scene, my perception is all based in fantasy ... so mine is a little skewed ... I looked at those pics and though "Wow that's hot"  but I also thought way beyond my "competence" level.  
I think the thread and others like it, that you mention, does have a "your kink is not okay" undertone.   If someone believes something is "dangerous" enough they may try to persuade others to not engage in that activity.  Rather than allowing people to make thier own descisions.
Good point though.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 4:35:33 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		*Remembers His paddle and just swoons...*
 
I have found it that BDSM 'community' members are far more 'your kink sucks' and judgemental in a condcending way, than those on the outside and fringes.  I believe people just crave others to agree with them, rather than listening and inhaling opinions and trying to understand them and being accepting of others - which is ironic when you think about it.  Some people crave acceptance - yet offer none.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 5:22:19 AM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello RavenMuse. As you say, it is the ''your kink is not ok'' thingie.

I have done a lots of sports of which ice hockey was my forte. I played from the tender age of 5 to 18 in hockey leagues and continued on recreationally. Now, anyone examining RACK about this ''sexy'' sport must consider this: High speed contact, sharp skates, powerfull shots and yes, I regret to say, the violence of vengeful pugilists (great fun, I must say!).

If this sport is not an icon in one's culture, one may think of the risks: bone fractures, dislocations, cuts (lots of cuts!), torn ligaments (knees, back, shoulders). As this is an international sport, an olympic event for men and women, a lot of people may think of hockey players as being crazy and that their sport ''kink'' is not ok at all... but, at least most of these people shut up about it! Just remember this sport is played by thousands of men, women and children that believe in ''managing risk'' and not invoking SSC to disallow and condemn risky behavior (playing a contact sport).

I think it is a waste of time citing RACK to justify a specific kink to someone citing his/her self serving, reducing and restrictive interpretation of SSC to bring attention to the ''dangers'' of some kink they don't understand and that is not an ''icon'' in their own sexuality (sexual culture).

Playing hockey (and some other contact sports) is a 100 times more risky than standing up with a rope around the neck with someone assuring your safety...photos included. My 2 cents. RL.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 5:43:08 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		robert,

yep, as an ex amature boxer I was more than aware of the inherent risks involved. They where assessed, accounted for, trained to reduce..... I for one got mightily irritated at the drive to pad up, wrap the pugilists in cotton wool (figerativly, but almost literaly) because a few nancy boys on the side-lines decided the risks where too great. I knew the risks and I CHOSE to be involved. They decided My sport was not OK, and imposed their crap on Me and others like Me. I walked away, the watered down version held no appeal.

Relating that to WIITWD, sure, some of what I do maybe look very risky from the outside.... and some of WIITWD indeed does carry a degree of inherent risk (Breathplay to cite one example). My girl also accepts those risks as well as placing her trust in Me and My competence to reduce those risks, keep them within acceptable (acceptable to US) limits. Trust that has been built on and built up from her experience of Me and My competence (Even within a TPE relationship You don't enter play like a bull in a chinashop, you take time learning the girl and slowly raising the play hand in hand with the rise in trust)



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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 5:54:29 AM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		I understand where you're coming from , RM.  I've shown pictures like these to the people who know wiitid when they ask and they are all properly horrified.  They instinctively know there's risk involved but they don't realize all the safety precautions taken by someone who knows what they're doing.  They don't seem to realize that some of these positions are soooooo comfortable, I've fallen asleep. (sssh, don't tell)  They would never believe the choking, the knife play, the fire play........    And they shuddered when I brought out the truncheon I had made, 28" long and 1.5" diameter made from a large washing machine hose.  Used properly it made a loverly thunk and felt like a nice deep massage.

Anyone who plays rough takes a chance, every time.  That's where communication, negotiation, trust and knowing your partner comes into it.  But it's oh so magical when it's all right.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 5:56:12 AM   
Exquemelin


Posts: 113
Joined: 2/2/2007
From: CT
Status: offline 		I'll admit my first reaction was Holy crap that looks dangerous, but as I thought about it, I relized that they're trying to make money making those pictures. I think my first reaction might have been in part because i'm terrible at rope. I imagine there was at least a paramedic sitting right nearby among other people. we also never see what the rope's attached too. My thought being maybe somebody is holding the rope on a pulley or some such, going "You ok?" the whole time. Death is bad for business, I imagine saftey precautions were taken. 

< Message edited by Exquemelin -- 4/10/2008 5:57:07 AM >

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 6:00:43 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Some people see something extreme and know they would never have the guts to try it so they attempt to make it look like a bad thing for everyone to do so they don't appear weak.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 6:15:51 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You talk about batting way past your competence level. Unfortunately there are a whole lot of people who do just that. People who see a porn video of something and decide to emulate it without learning how to mitigate risks. Suspension by the wrists for example, people assume because there's a shot of some girl hanging by her wrists and then ten minutes of close ups on other parts of the body followed by another shot of her still hanging that she actually was suspended like that. In reality of course, she's held up by two guys who aren't in the shot, let down, and put back up while being held up for the second quick shot. Most people don't have any common sense nor plans to make up for it by educating themselves.

Suspension by a noose? Too risky in high heels for me unless there were a couple of guys able to hold me up while a third cuts me loose. But as I said there, the top of the rope isn't shown. It could be loosely thrown over a beam while she holds the pose, or somebody could be holding it, or what is commonly done if you want to make a mindfuck of this is you tie a piece of thread to the rope and tie off the thread so if she falls the thread quickly snaps.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/10/2008 6:23:04 AM >

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 6:19:39 AM   
RavenMuse


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Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Some people see something extreme and know they would never have the guts to try it so they attempt to make it look like a bad thing for everyone to do so they don't appear weak.



I think you might have a good point there. The whole "Look at how kinky i am.... I only don't do anything that is 'bad'"... ergo a vested interest in painting anything they wouldn't do as wrong.

There is plenty out there that I wouldn't do. An old forum friend from here a while back would demo a variation of using a butterfly board... only she used planks of wood and six inch nails instead of pins.... Not My bag but MY reaction was 'Now thats what *I* call edge play"

I guess it is what is behind so many forms of prejudice..... fear and ignorance.

Sure I will critisise things from a personal perspective... the reasons why I wouldn't do X,Y or Z.... but if it works for someone else, good for them.I can only make assessments for Me (and Mine), other people make their own assesments. The only ones that count are those of the people directly involved.


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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 6:34:26 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I think that people tend to react to things that scare them, simple as that. It could have brought up a  memory of something dangerous/deadly that involved a similiar situation and then caused the reaction. If I saw a photo that involved (for example) a phobia of mine combined with an erotic slant I would probably have an immediate emotional reaction to it. Such as a woman bound and covered with birds. Yup. My first thought would be 'Jaysus that woman is going to have her eyeballs pecked out omg this is just wrong and dangerous'.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 6:47:54 AM   
Taboo4Two


Posts: 170
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: NH, TX
Status: offline 		Human beings partake in a lot of risky behavior. Skydiving, Hang Gliding, Rock Climbing, Scuba Diving all come with risks well beyond what many would deem acceptable. What the participants of those activities and we share is a desire to manage the risk to a level where it is acceptable.

Could those pictures have come from a very unsafe scene? Sure...but it is just as likely that numerous safety precautions were in place that we could not see. In all likelyhood the fetish model probably had a much lower risk factor in that scene than the vanilla skydiver who made 5 jumps last Sunday. 


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 7:22:53 AM   
metamorpha


Posts: 35
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		People tend to be most afraid of what they don't understand.  I applaud the person who is confused and says, "hey, what do you think?"  They had every right to post here and to get opinions.

It is easy for many that are new to the lifestyle at assume that at some point they must try EVERYTHING in the lifestyle instead of seeing that they are free to pick and choose what they would like to partake in like a glorous buffet.  The real fear may come from believing that someday that act might be required of them, or in not realizing that people do build up a mastery of bondage or paddles or whatever, and don't just jump into the most difficult parts without practice.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 7:33:49 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		heh, because you brought up knitting...

When I first learned to knit I was terrified of dropping a stitch, because I didn't know how to fix the work if that happened (and as I recall, when I was learning to skate so I could play hockey I was far less concerned about falling-- that was part of the fun).  Anyway, knitting, at first I was tentative and careful.  I kept my eye on each stitch and made sure that no mistakes were made.  As I got to know what I was doing, I became more confident, I tried harder patterns, trickier stitches, I evolved.

I look at WIITWD kind of in the same way, I started out slow, carefully, tentatively even and as I got to know my body better (and as he got to know me better) we evolved, tried trickier scenes and played more on the edge.

Skydiving, scuba diving, racecare driving, etc, aren't ever sports that someone just jumps in head first with and does what someone who's been at it for years can do, they take steps and build a foundation so that they can grow and become more comfortable with what they are doing and with each level of comfort they can expand to maintain the adreniline with their chosen activity.

I mean basically it all comes down to is when someone goes into anything they should think and they should consider what they are doing, they sould use common sense and they should stick to their comfort level until they decide to push that level and then they should only go as far as they are capeable of hanling at the moment.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 7:35:07 AM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Hell, I have a paddle which in itself provoked the "Thats dangerous" reaction from some just showing it to them. A large, thick, solid metal paddle....



Mmmm... Paddle... *smiles at the memories and makes a puddle on the seat*

Yup, that is a scary one Master.. Dangerous? Potentially.. But in Your hands, nothing could be further from the truth.


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 7:46:09 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		To take it a step further, not only is it "dangerous," but "Your Master is an abusive sonofabitch for doing that to you.  He must not care about your health or safety at all!!"

Beats me.  Time and again there are opinions expressed that show "I don't understand this so it must be bad."  Are we just a fear-driven, "what if" society now, as a whole?  We have warning labels on the obvious ("hair dryer is hot, be careful"..."cigarettes cause lung cancer"...), helmet laws, seatbelt laws, the news that tells us it's a wild and dangerous world out there, the government that wants to protect us...and so on.  I'm surprised we don't all arm ourselves with suits of bubble wrap before leaving the house each day.

I don't think the chicken littles are unique to D/s and BDSM.  I think we may see it more as a whole here because this is a venue in which to discuss fun and risky and kinky stuff.  Add to that we have people new to discovering thier enjoyment in BDSM and asking questions which the great and wise experienced ones decide are idiotic, which also contributes to the "fear all things because you can't possibly know any better" attitude.  Then again, some people just like putting each other down.  If you say the photo is mild, then surely you think you're better than the rest.  If you say the photo looks scary, then surely you're inexperienced and don't know what you're talking about on BDSM topics!  So perhaps people just jump to criticisms before they are criticized first.

Interesting thread.  I'm glad you put it out there.

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 7:50:56 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss

Yup, that is a scary one Master.. Dangerous? Potentially.. But in Your hands, nothing could be further from the truth.



And maybe there inlies the problem its not just about the activity but who is doing it, many kinky activities are dangerous (im not a pain slut and I dont ness see the activities and D/s as inherantly connected) yet the danger is reduced based on who is doing it, at least the sense of danger is. That image is a random girl we dont know the set up, sure it looks shocking, i doubt it was dangerous the problem comes when someone decides it looks cool and to give it a go at home (lets remember the bottom of the telly when something dangerous comes on "this is done by trained professionals do not try it at home" its a similar principle here.


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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 7:56:16 AM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I think her main reaction is ...

What if the stupid people try this....

RM I gather (from assuming your an experienced as well as a great ammount of people in the fourms are) They understand safety they think things through they have done things like this thousands of times.

But our culture is populated by mainly Stupid people, and these sadly stupid people, see things that that, or edge play or whips, and go Lets try that. They have no skill, they have no Idea with they are doing, they dont know how to be safe with said objects. And you can see where this road is going.

For smart people, who have a willing partner, where both are trusting and understand the risks, enjoy the kink and its for them ^_^ Wonderful Can I have a try?

For Stupid people, who dont always have a willing partner (or a partner that doesnt fully understand) Where both parties HAVENT built trust, dont understand the risk and are just doing it because they saw it in a photo... >.<;; Not wonderful ... im going to go over there and hide and say once more, this is a really bad idea... a really really bad Idea.

I understand why we can not allow or lives to be run by the stupid people, but I can see how this might scare or cause worry in some, I get scared of CBT Photos and I dont even have those bits, but C'est La Vie.... Its really no different then someone promoting guns should be destroyed in a whole. Doesnt make their thoughts wrong... just their thoughts....




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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 8:00:30 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Oddly enough there are things that do squick me..Rollercoasters, Sky Diving, Skiing, Coprophagics, Bestiality and Pedophilia. I don't tell anyone not to get on a Rollercoaster, jump out of a perfectly good airplane or stand on two waxed pieces of fiberglass going downhill at 60 mph trying to avoid boulders, bushes and bears. I will tell them of the dangers of coprophilia and decline to be involved outside of changing an infants (under the age of toilet training person) diaper. I object to Bestiality as the animal cannot consent (well..Male Goats will if you are on your menses..A Ministers Wife I knew found that out the embarrasing way) and a Pedophile is an endangered species around me.

That said I have helped stage a photoshoot for coprophilia back in the 80's. We used chocolate pudding as a stand in, Jello would be shocked to know what that really large run of it was for. Add foam rubber lumps and you would never know the difference in a picture. Please also note that animals can be coprophiliacs mostly safely, tending to their young and cleaning up the back yard. Hell they sell stuff to make it taste bad to your dog ( I am still trying to figure out how it could taste worse) to break them of the habit. So, before I can judge a human on it, I have to consider where my dogs and cat's tongue have been busy in the past couple of minutes.

All of us are human and being human means we tend towards being judgemental about things we either have no idea about OR that impacts on things that we do know about and find harmful to us in some way.

RACK is one of those that tends to challenge many peoples belief's about what is safe to do.  Those of us who play on the edge tend towards the learn, mentor, do it as safely as possible but there are always going to be fools who rush in where angels are wise enough to tread carefully. We will never be able to prevent that other than to make the information on how to do things safely widely and freely available, and even then we are not going to reach everyone. One can only hope that they survive long enough to learn..if not, Well Darwinism still works.

poenkitten

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RE: Perception of risk - 4/10/2008 9:02:43 AM   
lanie38


Posts: 120
Joined: 9/14/2007
Status: offline 		I quit worrying a long time ago what others thought about what I do...although I don't have to worry about too many, I don't generally advertise the specifics.

I'm an adult, capable of making choices and it's my responsiblity to endure the consequensces of those choices, not excluding those who I choose to participate with...

And besides it's not my job to worry about what others do kink wise esp the stupid ones...

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