RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them?

RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (Full Version)

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MasterFireMaam -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/8/2008 11:18:43 PM)
I think perhaps the thing to do is for both of you to work on WHY you feel the way you feel about emotions. They are not good or bad and you cannot force anyone to feel something they choose not to feel. So, if you're angry with the bagger at the grocery store for putting your bread on the bottom, there's no need for your sub to be angry as well. Just because you feel crappy in the morning doesn't mean that your boy should, too, nor does it give you an excuse to be a certain way. It is a REASON why you might react some way, but it doesn't excuse your behavior. We each have our own stuff and we act and react to it. We can control how we act and react. When we figure out a little better how emotions work and why we have them, we can begin to take some responsibility for our own actions and reactions to the things around us. Then we can work on having emotional maturity. We don't take on other's emotions that we don't want and we don't feel guilty about having our own. Master Fire

MistressOfGa -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 1:02:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam I think perhaps the thing to do is for both of you to work on WHY you feel the way you feel about emotions. They are not good or bad and you cannot force anyone to feel something they choose not to feel. So, if you're angry with the bagger at the grocery store for putting your bread on the bottom, there's no need for your sub to be angry as well. Just because you feel crappy in the morning doesn't mean that your boy should, too, nor does it give you an excuse to be a certain way. It is a REASON why you might react some way, but it doesn't excuse your behavior. We each have our own stuff and we act and react to it. We can control how we act and react. When we figure out a little better how emotions work and why we have them, we can begin to take some responsibility for our own actions and reactions to the things around us. Then we can work on having emotional maturity. We don't take on other's emotions that we don't want and we don't feel guilty about having our own. Master Fire MasterFireMaam, I agree with you on this. I have no problem "owning" my own emotions, been doing that for 50 years. What I was worried about was that my sub would feel the need to "put on the same face" as I have, just to please me, just as I did when I was a young girl, for my own mother. After reading everyone's responses, I must say I do feel much better. I have also talked to Brian and I feel better about us in general. Sometimes LTR is a bitch. It is very hard to "see" him when I talk to him and to know by his facial expressions as to how he is feeling when we do talk. Thanks for responding :) MoGa

MistressOfGa -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 1:05:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TysGalilah Good Morning MofGa ...I will apologize upfront for any rambling or excessive length this response may morph into LOL this is a topic I have much personal experience with and tend to "go off on" ..so I will try my best to keep it contained. My mother ( ohhh don'cha just love responses that start that way? ) was a cupboard slammer. If mom needed help in the kitchen, rather than saying or asking > she'd send not so subtle indications of that. SLAM ! I would jump....Mom? do you need my help?? "Ohhhh well since you're here...yes you can help." If she was upset...her face, her posture, her actions would indicate that, but not her words or her voice. Its called passive-aggressive and her picture is by the definition in the dictionary.. Emotions were never discussed in that household..and certainly not in words....so feelings were suppressed and I became trained to "read a person" rather than ask or listen to how they were feeling. I grew into what some may call an empath and some would call a co-dependant. and I had to be re-trained eventually how NOT to do exactly what she taught me so well to do. Somewhere in my 30's ( I am 50 now) I began noticing that MY young children were watching me intently...reacting to my facial expression...asking me if I was ok? because I loooooked angry? red flag went off and I had to take a hard look at myself...and how I was ( or wasnt) handling my emotions and reactions. skip ahead 7 yrs, after some serious personal work and what I felt was progress and better behaviors: I am still trying hard to differentiate between compassion, empathy and emotion-dependant...doing a better job of balancing and handling how to react to other peoples feelings and emotions w/o making them mine or my responsibility to take care of ( or fix groan ) . Enter: my submission to a dominant. My intuition, empathy, ability to read what someone else needed and wanted before they asked or spoke> Kicked into over-drive, once again. AND I was highly praised for this behavior! wow It turned out to be a Top/bottom situation more than I realized or understood at the time, but he was a man dis-connected from his feelings, didn't know how ( or want to for that matter ) to make me express mine openly...and I WANTED AND NEEDED to please him.....so I read him. Watched his every move and mood....and I crashed and burned with my co-dependant behaviors. 2 years..having removed myself from a submissive mind-set because I didn't know how to balance that ....and some more work on Cyndi Enter: Tyson Fortunately, the man is a master communicator. Completely intouch with his emotions and feelings and can express them well and knows how to effectively bring that out in others. I was honest with him about my past....my last attempt at submission and my hesitance ( but intense need to as well ) to enter into it again.....He knew how to help me find my balance. It was actually a very good lesson in my submission and learning to not control...not project...not anticipate.. Just feel and trust that if he was feeling something he needed me to know about HE would tell me... it took a while to trust that ability in him....having been around so many who didnt know how to communicate their feelings so openly and so well. but it has been the most healing and freeing of experiences for me. From your other posts on this thread, you mention not putting your pup in that situation and that you do communicate well.. : ) imo I think it is a fine line submissives walk.. and easily crossed.. wanting to please and serve your wants and desires..but NOT take back the control in our anticipating them. caring for the needs you express but not taking care of* your emotions and feelings....tricky stuff.* we like our dominant ones happy : ) and feeling good ...satisfyed.....its hard to see you unhappy..or dealing with emotions we cannot (and should not) be responsible for. devotion to serve intensifies emotions..and blurrs the lines that would, in other scenarios, be met with healthy emotional boundaries.. as JustMe also mentioned in his response. Hard to balance...but not impossible. Cyndi Cyndi, I read your response several times. If I didn't know any better, I would think you were inside my mind and writing how I feel. Your post was beautifully written with grace and empathy. Thank you so much for sharing. I know it couldn't have been easy. MoGa

MistressOfGa -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 1:07:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MladyHathor Smiles, people who feel a deep attachment to us tend to feel that defense mechanism when we feel stress---children or submissives--the thing here is to temper how much we show them and to insure that what we do show warrants their involvement. Makes sense, as always my Friend. You know me..hard to hide how I feel..especially to those who care and love me. MoGa

MistressOfGa -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 1:15:43 AM)
quote: One of the first thoughts that went through my head in reading this, is that if I took on the emotions that he was feeling at any particular time, then I would be focusing on me and not on him. If something happens to him that upsets him, the focus should be on him and not on me. It would be inappropriate of me to act in a way that would take the focus off of him. It is about him, not me. Kyra, That is one thing I have always admired about you and Alandra, is your ability (Or is it training?) to keep your focus on your Lord. My sub and I are not like that. I have always encouraged him to feel what he feels, but to own what he feels as well. I think he does, and after talking to him tonight, I think that things will be going better for me. I wont be so focused on him when I am upset about something else. I don't think it is so much a lack of judgment on his part, I think it is a lack of experience. Like he said, he cries, I cry. I cry and he cries. You cut one, we both bleed. It is how it works for us, but I have never felt like he was diminishing my authority over him or taking anything away from me. He knows as well as I do, who the D is in our relationship. Never has that been any doubt on his part. Thanks for responding, as always, your posts are thought provoking and makes me think :) MoGa

MistressOfGa -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 1:30:20 AM)
quote: think how many times you have tried to shelter Pup from the negatives of the world. Do you really think he could do any less for you? The hardest part is stepping back and letting the other fight their own battles. It is the hardest lesson parents learn regarding their kids, and frankly the hardest one for anyone to learn. We have to let the other person in our lives own their emotions, fight their own battles and at the same time recognize it is ok to feel angry, sad, etc. for them, just not take the emotion over. PK, It makes perfect sense. You are right, I have tried very hard to shield him from harm, but I knew I had to step aside, as I was only picking up where his parents left off. I don't want to make him a different person, as I love who he is, however, there are aspects about him that I do want to see him correct. I help him with those when it comes up, but all the while, try to help him hold on to the parts of himself that his parents didn't have control over. As I am so much older than he is (And this may have nothing to do with it, as I have been protective over subs my own age) I think that my maternal instincts kick in when he is have problems at work or school and I know that there is nothing that I can do to help him, yet I want to go and kick ass <s> But of course I can't. I won't even go into what his parents did to him when he told them he was having trouble at work! Damn. But what came out of that nightmare was him standing up to them and refusing to take their calls for a week. Pretty good, for someone who didn't go a day without speaking to them. Now, I am the one rambling! <Back to you Jane> lol (Ref: SNL skit) MoGa

TysGalilah -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 3:01:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa quote: ORIGINAL: TysGalilah Good Morning MofGa ...I will apologize upfront for any rambling or excessive length this response may morph into LOL this is a topic I have much personal experience with and tend to "go off on" ..so I will try my best to keep it contained. My mother ( ohhh don'cha just love responses that start that way? ) was a cupboard slammer. If mom needed help in the kitchen, rather than saying or asking > she'd send not so subtle indications of that. SLAM ! I would jump....Mom? do you need my help?? "Ohhhh well since you're here...yes you can help." If she was upset...her face, her posture, her actions would indicate that, but not her words or her voice. Its called passive-aggressive and her picture is by the definition in the dictionary.. Emotions were never discussed in that household..and certainly not in words....so feelings were suppressed and I became trained to "read a person" rather than ask or listen to how they were feeling. I grew into what some may call an empath and some would call a co-dependant. and I had to be re-trained eventually how NOT to do exactly what she taught me so well to do. Somewhere in my 30's ( I am 50 now) I began noticing that MY young children were watching me intently...reacting to my facial expression...asking me if I was ok? because I loooooked angry? red flag went off and I had to take a hard look at myself...and how I was ( or wasnt) handling my emotions and reactions. skip ahead 7 yrs, after some serious personal work and what I felt was progress and better behaviors: I am still trying hard to differentiate between compassion, empathy and emotion-dependant...doing a better job of balancing and handling how to react to other peoples feelings and emotions w/o making them mine or my responsibility to take care of ( or fix groan ) . Enter: my submission to a dominant. My intuition, empathy, ability to read what someone else needed and wanted before they asked or spoke> Kicked into over-drive, once again. AND I was highly praised for this behavior! wow It turned out to be a Top/bottom situation more than I realized or understood at the time, but he was a man dis-connected from his feelings, didn't know how ( or want to for that matter ) to make me express mine openly...and I WANTED AND NEEDED to please him.....so I read him. Watched his every move and mood....and I crashed and burned with my co-dependant behaviors. 2 years..having removed myself from a submissive mind-set because I didn't know how to balance that ....and some more work on Cyndi Enter: Tyson Fortunately, the man is a master communicator. Completely intouch with his emotions and feelings and can express them well and knows how to effectively bring that out in others. I was honest with him about my past....my last attempt at submission and my hesitance ( but intense need to as well ) to enter into it again.....He knew how to help me find my balance. It was actually a very good lesson in my submission and learning to not control...not project...not anticipate.. Just feel and trust that if he was feeling something he needed me to know about HE would tell me... it took a while to trust that ability in him....having been around so many who didnt know how to communicate their feelings so openly and so well. but it has been the most healing and freeing of experiences for me. From your other posts on this thread, you mention not putting your pup in that situation and that you do communicate well.. : ) imo I think it is a fine line submissives walk.. and easily crossed.. wanting to please and serve your wants and desires..but NOT take back the control in our anticipating them. caring for the needs you express but not taking care of* your emotions and feelings....tricky stuff.* we like our dominant ones happy : ) and feeling good ...satisfyed.....its hard to see you unhappy..or dealing with emotions we cannot (and should not) be responsible for. devotion to serve intensifies emotions..and blurrs the lines that would, in other scenarios, be met with healthy emotional boundaries.. as JustMe also mentioned in his response. Hard to balance...but not impossible. Cyndi Cyndi, I read your response several times. If I didn't know any better, I would think you were inside my mind and writing how I feel. Your post was beautifully written with grace and empathy. Thank you so much for sharing. I know it couldn't have been easy. MoGa You are most welcome [sm=flowers.gif] Cyndi

KnightofMists -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 7:09:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa That is one thing I have always admired about you and Alandra, is your ability (Or is it training?) to keep your focus on your Lord. It's their expectation! not just for dealing with me but for anyone they deal with. It is no value to just feel what another feels. It is of value to feel what is required to be of the best help/assistance etc for the person. When I am angry... the last thing I want from them is to feel angry just because I am angry... it might be that they will... but then they might need to be calm, for me or maybe sad. Frankly, it the same for me. Just because one of my girls is feeling an emotion doesn't mean I will feel the same emotion. We will have empathy for each other... but having empathy is not having the emotion... it is appreciating the person is having emotion X... and looking at what if anything we need to do for the benefit of the relationship. This is never about deminishing or exerting authority... it's all about doing what is best for the relationship when we are talking about the emotions we all feel.

BlackPhx -> RE: Emotions: Who Owns Them? (4/9/2008 3:37:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists It's their expectation! not just for dealing with me but for anyone they deal with. It is no value to just feel what another feels. It is of value to feel what is required to be of the best help/assistance etc for the person. When I am angry... the last thing I want from them is to feel angry just because I am angry... it might be that they will... but then they might need to be calm, for me or maybe sad. I am not sure that what they are feeling is angry because you are angry aka reflecting, but instead angry because someone has made you angry or hurt you in some way. That does not mean that they (or I or anyone involved in a relationship) cannot be calm, level headed or pragmatic at the same time. I can get mighty steamed at times (red head, temper, slow boil to eruption but when it does...run) and one of the things that drove me absolutely bonkers was when my Ex Husband (before the ex'ing) would see me getting angry at a situation, explode in my place to the point where instead of venting my own anger I was busy trying to calm his temper tantrum down and swallowing my own anger by the boat load. Counter productive to say the least and a good way for me to blow a blood vessel. That kind of "empathetic reflection short circuit" is damaging to the persons involved and does not allow the person who is actually "injured" "affronted" or "angry" to own the emotion. Master may get angry when something or someone (usually a creator of red tape) has ticked me off to the point I am about to release the sharpened harpy tongue on their deserving heads ( I am very good at telling someone to go to hell and having them buy the ticket, grab their camera and jump in the basket looking forward to the tour), but instead of venting the anger at the way his slave was treated he will instead use that anger to help me focus on the best way to handle something by acting as a reflective sounding board. Confusing I know but by the time I have vented and sounded off WITH him, I can see the way through the morass in front of me. One thing that is not a part of what you or I have put forth that is relavent to MoGa's OP is the fact that we are usually pretty good at telling when someone is on edge, angry, happy, sad, whatever the predominant feeling and yes our behavior does SELF Correct to accomodate that, whether it is we go out and work in the garden or sit quietly, or fix something special to make the other person feel better. Sometimes we have to step back and wait for the person to deal with the internal problem without causing waves, but to do that we have to be empathetic and observant enough to recognize the need. Interestingly enough one place I find that Dominants and Subs, et al tend to start reflecting each others needs and emotions is during Slave or Top Frenzy. We may not be aware consciously that the other is entering a hunger frenzy until we realize we are getting just as antsy and begin bouncing off our own walls. Master has been in one since Saturday night last, and I am just as ready to break off a large piece of pain, or would be if a bad case of food poisoning had not done it's own job of dominating me thoroughly for the past 3 days. As much as I love, want and am dieing for the pain and him..the bathroom has been my lord and master far to cruelly for me to indulge yet. Today is the first day I am trying solid foods other than crackers. poenkitten

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