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RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 6:36:30 AM   
trustedintx


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/23/2008
Status: offline 		i was in an abusive marriage many years ago and for years let it continue.  i will point out it was not -always- abusive he could stay off the booze for a couple of years and it was wonderful.  eventually however he would return to drinking, the memories of the good times kept me there, the hope that one day they would return permanently.  then one day i sat crying and scared because he was 15 minutes late home from work and i realized that meant he was drinking and i would likely be beaten.  it hit me then that i had become a victim and that i had allowed that to happen.  i still to this day do not know how or why i let it happen but that day i promised myself i would no longer be his victim and would stand up for myself each and every time he tried to abuse me.   i still did not immediately leave the situation but eventually i did, or should i say he did when i had the cops drag his happy ass out of my home.

today i am still a victim in some ways, in that i trust too easily, to quickly.  i leave myself open to abuse because i give too much of myself without restraint.  i realize though that it is my problem.  i can either stay as i am and trust people or i can become guarded and perhaps miss out on some wonderful experiences.  i prefer the first and just need to find some way to cope when i find out someone is not who or what they say they are.

(in reply to epiphany)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 7:22:06 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		i think that its here that i have my problem about when we make a choice we must ultimately be responsible for it.

today i am still a victim in some ways, in that i trust too easily, to quickly.  i leave myself open to abuse because i give too much of myself without restraint.  i realize though that it is my problem.  i can either stay as i am and trust people or i can become guarded and perhaps miss out on some wonderful experiences.  i prefer the first and just need to find some way to cope when i find out someone is not who or what they say they are.
 
each time we go into a situation/relationship we go in good faith.  when we stay in a bad situation we stay in good faith that it will resolve.  maybe its because i refuse to take responsibility for another persons bad behaviour and wear it around my neck as a badge of failure.
 
trustedintx, why do you feel you are victim because you trust and give yourself so much, i think thats a wonderful thing.  the fact that people in the past have taken that as a weakness to stomp all over is not your fault.  its not so much that you choose to be this way, it is the way you are.  why should you then blame yourself for being open when the blame lies squarely with those who abuse that open heart.
 
if i was a bitch and went through my relationships whoring around, bitching and twisting the knife i still wouldnt feel it was the right of anyone to beat me up for it.  id accept that they would leave me, fine, but why on earth should it be possible to say, yep, i chose to be abused because i came into your life expecting happyness and all i got was crap.


(in reply to trustedintx)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 7:25:27 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		lally, I think you are still totally misunderstanding the concept.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 7:31:50 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		laughing.... ok, i shall reread youre post

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 9:20:32 AM   
Poetryinpain


Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline 		My roommate had a friend who had been abused 25 years ago. She moved in with us, ostensibly to help us out on the rent.Shortly after she moved in she quit her job and didn't really do much about looking for another one. When rent day came, she didn't have the money. I spoke to her about it because my roommate was too timid to say anything.

The woman whined (yes, actually whined), "You don't understand. I was abused by my uncle when I was 19. I can't be expected to be like you." I was so astonished that she would use long-past abuse openly as an excuse for not fulfilling her obligations, that I said the first thing that popped into my head.

"Good grief, Marla! That was a quarter of a century ago! You're 46 now. It's time you grew up." That was perhaps not the kindest thing to say, but it just boggled my mind that even after years of therapy, she was still playing the victim. My sympathy for her went out the window, and 30 days later, Marla went out the door with her belongings.

At the time of an attack, the victim is indeed a victim. When they are still a victim 25 years later, something is clearly wrong.

pip, maybe a hardass


_____________________________

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 9:47:13 AM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline 		Having been in some similar situations myself on the various occasions in my past that i would rather stayed buried where i left them, and i completely agree that i cannot say of any particular occurance that i myself wasn't completely blameless within that situation.

As you say, poor judgement, missing the warning signs in the relationship, trusting too much in the assumption that people are generally just "nice". i don't class myself as a victim at all.. i just hold my hands up and admit the truth.. unlucky.


_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 12:35:08 PM   
LilMissHaven


Posts: 734
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		I don't see myself as a victim nor a survivor.  I'm just someone who something bad happened to...case closed.  I don't have nightmares or flashbacks of being raped, talking about it doesn't reduce me to tears or even cause a definable emotion other then the "Ah well shit happens".

I don't know if its because I'm older and wiser and know that as a child there was nothing I could have done to stop it or if its because I've taken precautions to ensure that if someone ever were to attempt raping me again it would be a hell of a battle.

I think as a species we focus too much on our negative experiances.

_____________________________

I must first learn to master myself, before I can truly be owned by one.

(in reply to metalmiss)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 12:44:56 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		erin...I support utterly what you put forward in your OP...we are only victims very rarely .. and very few people are *ever* willing to take responsibility for what they could have done to avoid the abuse or to take responsibility for moving on.

I have a low toleration for people who use previous abuse as a crutch to carry them for life.I know people suffer from things that are so horrifc there is no coming back from them. For those people I can do nothing more than pray for them and wish them well,somedmage really cannot be healed. For people who use being a victim in the past as a reason not to move onto into a future...I have to question ...whether they are now willingly and consistently allowing that victimisation to continue. I was in a situation where I was abused, I was a victim...I still now debate with myself if I could have saved myself from what happened (but hind sight is 20:20 ..I now cannot believe I even let him know my name let alone play with him) ..I have to accept that i was in a consensual situation but that he abused the trust i had given him ... and for a while i used that incident as an excuse .. as a crutch .. until about 2 years ago ...and no bloody longer ...otherwise I am actively allowing myself to continue being his victim  and not accepting responsibility for my part in the situation. I dont blame myself... i simply learned and moved on.




_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to metalmiss)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 1:28:41 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Reading this over I realized there is something that I do want to make clear. Most folks have keyed in on the domestic violence or sexual assault factors, most likely because those are the examples I used. I do want to say that I used those examples because I thought they would quickly make the point. But those types of victimizations are certainly not the only things that we have a responsibility in. I wrote the post because I have noticed many posts on the boards lately about people who are the victims of their own choices, whether they can see it or not. Rape and abuse are at the far end of the spectrum....but we also have responsibility in the outcomes of our interactions with others. The dom who we have not been clear with for fear of looking "un"submissive or having him "not like us"...and the boundaries that get crossed as a result of lack of ability to be clear. The doms who leave us hanging and hurt our feelings because we rushed into something that should have required time....or that we opened ourselves up to and handed over our hearts and feelings before he proved he was worthy of having them. The ones who commit to relationships before they even know the person they commit to. The ones who complain about the rules who didn't take time to make sure what the rules were before they made a commitment. The ones who invest themselves emotionally in people they have never actually met. In all of those situations....and in many, many more....it is far too often you hear people crying victim....who have seemingly no understanding of their own personal responsibility or accountability in it. 

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 2:05:36 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		i completely agree that you cannot go through life without some accountability for the choices you make.  i absolutely accept that if we ignore the red flags, when things go wrong, then stupid us.. 

right now im re-entering a friendship with a g/f who screwed up in the past.  im putting the past behind us, im giving her a second go.  if she screws up again, then ok, i knew the risks and i took them, my choice my responsiblity and i promise i wont bitch if it goes south.

so, yes, i get it, you take responsibility for the decisions you make.  but i refuse to take responsibility for the bad behaviour of others simply because i happened to be there and was an easy target.. its letting them off, and that doesnt mean im holding on to a grudge, im not, its long gone - far from it, ive left them behind with their guilt and regrets, their sad destructive lives.

to do so is empowering in fact, for me anyway.  i left all of it at their door, even my small part, because that small part would not have existed atall without their bigger part played out.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 2:46:06 PM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Reading this over I realized there is something that I do want to make clear. Most folks have keyed in on the domestic violence or sexual assault factors, most likely because those are the examples I used. I do want to say that I used those examples because I thought they would quickly make the point. But those types of victimizations are certainly not the only things that we have a responsibility in. I wrote the post because I have noticed many posts on the boards lately about people who are the victims of their own choices


Boo.....hello sexy....just dropped in to say "i just got out of the hot tub, na na na !"
 
In truth, while i firmly believe that we are not responsible for some victimizations we experience ( I lost my virginity before i was old enough for grade school. What, were my pig tails too tight? My Underroos too pink? I certainly didn't choose to be a victim then).
 
In truth there are many we are. The female love of my life, oh goddess, her voice turned my insides to water, her smile was the sun in a flower filled meadow on a breezy June afternoon, being a perfect example.
 
Erin, you know i only have ink that means something important to me and you've seen the tattoo i have on my shoulder that was for her.
 
Love, i loved her, and i put up with her drinking, her disappearing, her drug use. I thought i could fix her. All the tears, all the hurts, all the disappointments that i experienced were my own fault, i know they were. I could have spared myself much pain by simply walking away, saying no more. But i didn't, not for four years.
 
My old man now gone, he was bipolar, and it was bad. Number of times he tried to kill me, three. Hospitalizations, medications that stopped his parts from functioning in the time before Viagra, on and on. Yet he was a great man and a genius at motorcycles.
 
I chose, i picked loving them both as much as i could for as long as i could. In her case, it was not very long, in his it was until he died.
 
Sometimes i think, what i see happen is this; we choose, for whatever reason we choose these individuals to love. Perhaps occasionally we are unaware of the possibilities of the situation we are stepping into. Perhaps sometimes we see but choose not to believe.
 
And perhaps, my dear friend, just perhaps, some of us choose to love where our hearts lead us, regardless of the collateral damage we suffer.
 
On these boards we often see complaints, issues, abuses, but i think sometimes what we are seeing is a real live human being who choose but still needs an outlet to vent, a wall to bang their head on, a shoulder to sob on, somebody to hopefully shed some light on or if not to lend support to their choices.
 
The vagaries of the human condition....sighs and smiles........

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 4:40:41 PM   
Vigilantejustice


Posts: 106
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline 		I really think that if we wanted to (over)simplify things it would boil down to this:

Risk Aware doesn't only need to apply to Consensual Kink.
Risk has a lot of permutations, from the risk of going outside and getting sunburn, to having your heart broken, to dying.
People should be aware of the risks they are taking, and the way their behaviour impacts their levels of risk.
People should be responsible for the actions (and inactions) that they perform, especially when it impacts risk.

Coherent Synopses brought to you courtesy of:
Corinne
Visionary-in-Residence and Household Pragmatist for House Vigilante

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 5:08:43 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I have stated this before out here on these forums....Everything negative that has ever happened to me has come about mostly by my own hand and due to my own actions or inactions.

We routinely blame everyone and everything for our own failings and bad experiences.


I'm sure there are exceptions....I remember when I was a kid and going through drivers education...While I was taking the class a student, who was driving, was killed by a drunk driver and the wife of one of my teachers hit some ice and went off the road and died at the scene.

My instructor insisted that there is a chance that both of these events probably could have been avoided.....How often do we really look at our surroundings? Pay attention to what is happening around us? Is there ice on the road? What is going on with the traffic that is heading towards me? Are my eyes looking ahead of me or am I paying more attention to things that pose no danger?

You want to wear a short skirt?...Well, It sounds good to me. Panties are optional. You want to go up to Mike Tyson's place at three in the morning...Probably not the best of ideas.

Is it your fault if your drink is drugged? Were you aware that this is a possibility? Did you watch your drink? Was your drink ever in the hands of someone you didn't know and trust?

You have to be proactive in today's world...It doesn't mean that you lose faith in humanity or become a hermit or live a life afraid of what awaits you around every corner.


You want to put trust into people that have not proved to deserve it....Well good luck to you. Especially if you have already been proven to not have a good grip on your guydar.

It is all about responsibility and utilizing common sense...If you live your life in a totally irresponsible manner than you will inevitably pay the price...If you are short on common sense...Hang out with people that have your back. Cuz, you really shouldn't be left alone.

_____________________________



(in reply to Vigilantejustice)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 5:29:03 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		To revisit, yes, the extremes are the easiest examples because it is easy to see the process.

I'm fully in agreement with Domi where he talks about the non extremes that we encounter.  Excellent point about watching a drink/your glass in a group setting.  This is true even if you know 'the group'.  Nobody can get by scott free forever with the 'it won't happen to M/me' mentality.  The truth is, it happens to somebody, somewhere.

From what I've gathered in this excellent thread (My kudos to erin), is that we do need to examine the decisions that we make each day.  There's the rub of it, really.  See, we make decisions.  If you break that down, it's about the verb.  It's the conscious choices that we make in the situations we encounter.

One would think, at least on the intellectual level, that we as a group, who constantly talk about safety, SSC, and RACK, that we, somehow, would be better at this.  We're really not.  It's not that we don't know how to protect ourselves.  It's more that we know the risks, and sometimes make poor choices anyway.    How we deal with the results of those choices, whether we accept some accountability of the course of events that follows, largely depends upon a person's own maturity and sense of self awareness.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Personal responsibility and being a victim - 4/1/2008 10:04:26 PM   
cailinbeag


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/15/2008
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		Please pardon the total newbie just jumping in here, but...

We can't control others' actions toward us, but we can control our reactions to them. So often, people play the What If game, beating themselves up over what they could have / should have done to avoid being hurt, replaying the events over and over in their minds like a skipping record, frozen in time, never moving forward and applying what they're convinced they've learned from their experience.

People don't want to admit to being victimized, as it implies weakness. But it's actually okay to be a victim. I wouldn't seek it out, mind you, but we're all victims at some point. It's the nature of the beast to not always have control and to have it bite us on the ass on occasion. And yet it amazes me...folks grasping at control over events past, things they cannot change (oh, how safe) and taking no control over how they let the events affect their life. They don't realize that it's the greatest power you can give someone/thing, to allow those actions to affect your choices. But it's easier. Accountability is a big word. It means work. It means candor. It means honesty with ourselves and admitting that there are areas where would could improve which must mean we're *gasp* not perfect.

Holy rambling weirdness. Sorry about that. In a nutshell? People who play the victim have my sympathies. Not because they've been victimized, but because they're incredibly insecure and that must suck. As for who is a victim and who only plays one on TV...that's not for me to decide.

_____________________________

"We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by." - Will Rogers

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 55
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