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Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compresse... - 3/13/2008 11:37:10 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Air-Powered Car Coming to U.S. in 2009 to 2010 at Sub-$18,000, Could Hit 1000-Mile Range
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4251491.html?series=19

“I want to stress that these are estimates, and that we’ll know soon more precisely from our engineers,” ZPM spokesman Kevin Haydon told PM, “but a vehicle with one tank of air and, say, 8 gal. of either conventional petrol, ethanol or biofuel could hit between 800 and 1000 miles.”

-----

Aptera's Super-MPG Electric Typ-1 e: Exclusive Video Test Drive
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html?series=19

Three hundred miles per gallon and a Jetsons-style look are enough to get anyone excited. But ever since the word got out on it last month, Aptera's innovative Typ-1 three-wheeler has been the target of relentless theorizing and conjecture across the Web. Is it real? Does it have what it takes to be a practical vehicle for daily transport? Is it stable enough to drive? Does it even actually drive? Well we wondered some of those things, too, so we scouted out if a drivable prototype really exists.

It does.

-----

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:39:07 AM   
masterfixer


Posts: 82
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline 		drive eco fuel cars, electric or battery cars.. mean while I will drive my 8 miles to the gallon 4x4 truck to the post office.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 12:29:40 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Super cool links sugar.  Isn't capitalism incredible.   On the market next year, wonderfull.  

I have questions about how well these cars will work in cold winter climates.  Most of them seem to be designed for sunny warm places, but I am sure those bugs will get worked out.  I have to use a big truck for my work and play, but if I had the cash I would love to have a super efficient little car for short trips.

Now if people would just put the capital they use in complaining into buying stock in and products from these kinds of corporations we could start fixing things.

Every silver liing has a cloud though.  Plug in vehicles use a huge amount of water, even more if they use a crop based bio fuel  http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253590.html?series=19

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 3/13/2008 12:32:34 PM >

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 4:44:22 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		It looks promising, but I still feel hydrogen will win out in the end. It simply packs the biggest punch re: energy vs. storage. Even better than gasoline's ratio. It also has the advantage of being the second most abundant element in the universe. (Stupidity being the first.)

One of the girls at work was complaining today about having to spend almost $150 to fill up her huge ass pickup truck. (she's into horses, and needs a larger vehicle for business purposes) It won't be much longer before we're all gouged that much just to fill our compact cars. God, I wish I still had my old VW bug these days! 

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 5:16:57 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: masterfixer

drive eco fuel cars, electric or battery cars.. mean while I will drive my 8 miles to the gallon 4x4 truck to the post office.
Well, ain't you the man. 

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 5:23:47 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		We'd still do even better by penalizing one car one driver fanatics for not carpooling. Gridlock is still our biggest ongoing issue-compounded by selfishness. It reduces everyone's efficiency in getting around in city driving.

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 5:30:44 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Super cool links sugar.  Isn't capitalism incredible.
What does capitalism have to do with advanced technology?

On the market next year, wonderfull.  

I have questions about how well these cars will work in cold winter climates.
What sort of problems do you perceive?

Most of them seem to be designed for sunny warm places, but I am sure those bugs will get worked out.  I have to use a big truck for my work and play, but if I had the cash I would love to have a super efficient little car for short trips.
You don't see any ability of the technology being scaled up for trucks and SUVs?

Now if people would just put the capital they use in complaining into buying stock in and products from these kinds of corporations we could start fixing things.

Every silver liing has a cloud though.  Plug in vehicles use a huge amount of water, even more if they use a crop based bio fuel 
Isn't it true that there is exactly as much water on this planet today as there was a thousand years ago?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253590.html?series=19

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 5:32:22 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Leatherist:

I actually believe the solution there is to make public transport both ubiquitous and free. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-fare_public_transport

Soem cities in the states actually have such systems.

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 7:04:54 PM   
Real0ne


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They have been going on about that for a couple years already. I forget Germany?  Running a compressor is not cheap and I cannot imagine them being more efficient than an electric car which I am considering for one of my future projects as soon as I can find another motor in the junk yard. Maybe I should break down and make my own! LOL

THe EV that gm made was canned because it required no maintenance literally.  Zippo and that means a lot of people out of work.


SMc: Zero-fare public transport services are funded in full by means other than collecting a fare from passengers. They may be funded by national, regional or local government through taxation or by commercial sponsorship by businesses.

Isnt that a little bit socialist?  Add that to your free health care gawd help us if that ever goes through, and we may as well work for the state just exactly like the failed russia did.


Lucky you should really consider better sources than the morons at PM or PS;  Though most of this water is returned to the source (albeit at a higher temperature), a 17-fold increase in demand would pose a real problem for water-stressed regions, making power plants more vulnerable to shut down during times of drought.

They always make a case where none exists or go against a legitimate case!  They are morons in a word.






_____________________________

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(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 7:30:42 PM   
Archer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Super cool links sugar.  Isn't capitalism incredible.
What does capitalism have to do with advanced technology?
Well lets see they invested the capital to bring together the technology in a combination that solves some of the problems facing electric vehicles, and they are selling their product and seems they will be making a profit. Sounds like a combination of capitalism and advanced technology.
On the market next year, wonderfull.  

I have questions about how well these cars will work in cold winter climates.
What sort of problems do you perceive?
The most obvious problem is that cold weather effects batteries sometimes in really bad ways.
Ever noticed batteries have been ranked in Cold Cranking Amps. Obviously there are environmental effects on batteries. Both extreams tend to make batteries operate at sub optimum efficiency.

Most of them seem to be designed for sunny warm places, but I am sure those bugs will get worked out.  I have to use a big truck for my work and play, but if I had the cash I would love to have a super efficient little car for short trips.
You don't see any ability of the technology being scaled up for trucks and SUVs?
The article specificly addresses that vehicle weight is kept low for reasons.So the ability to just scale it up is dependant on total weight there will come a time when those problems get solved.But the issue currently is that weight is a major problem.

Now if people would just put the capital they use in complaining into buying stock in and products from these kinds of corporations we could start fixing things.

Every silver lining has a cloud though.  Plug in vehicles use a huge amount of water, even more if they use a crop based bio fuel 
Isn't it true that there is exactly as much water on this planet today as there was a thousand years ago?



http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253590.html?series=19


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 8:51:25 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Super cool links sugar.  Isn't capitalism incredible.
What does capitalism have to do with advanced technology?
Well lets see they invested the capital to bring together the technology in a combination that solves some of the problems facing electric vehicles, and they are selling their product and seems they will be making a profit. Sounds like a combination of capitalism and advanced technology.
While your answer allows you to forward your opinion it does not answer my question.
Is it possible that this enterprise could have been accomplished with public funding?
 


On the market next year, wonderfull.  

I have questions about how well these cars will work in cold winter climates.
What sort of problems do you perceive?
The most obvious problem is that cold weather effects batteries sometimes in really bad ways.
Ever noticed batteries have been ranked in Cold Cranking Amps. Obviously there are environmental effects on batteries. Both extreams tend to make batteries operate at sub optimum efficiency.
Since these are deep cycle batteries they are not rated in cold cranking amps.
I agree that the environment does have an effect on batteries.  I am sure you must not have heard the part in the video about how the solar powered  heat pump solves that problem. 
The overwhelming majority of automobiles operate in the temperate climates where most of the people live.
 
 
Most of them seem to be designed for sunny warm places, but I am sure those bugs will get worked out.  I have to use a big truck for my work and play, but if I had the cash I would love to have a super efficient little car for short trips.
You don't see any ability of the technology being scaled up for trucks and SUVs?
The article specificly addresses that vehicle weight is kept low for reasons.So the ability to just scale it up is dependant on total weight there will come a time when those problems get solved.But the issue currently is that weight is a major problem.
Where specifically in the video was the issue of weight addressed?  You may want to watch it again. 
From my viewing of the video I could see no impediment to scaling it up.

Now if people would just put the capital they use in complaining into buying stock in and products from these kinds of corporations we could start fixing things.

Every silver lining has a cloud though.  Plug in vehicles use a huge amount of water, even more if they use a crop based bio fuel 
Isn't it true that there is exactly as much water on this planet today as there was a thousand years ago?



http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253590.html?series=19



(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 10:23:07 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

We'd still do even better by penalizing one car one driver fanatics for not carpooling. Gridlock is still our biggest ongoing issue-compounded by selfishness. It reduces everyone's efficiency in getting around in city driving.


Ahh yes, that's what we need... even more government in our lives.

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 10:49:00 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       Ignoring that it still takes quite a bit of electricity to compress the air in the tanks, this is a cool innovation. 

      How is it with 50 mph cross-winds though???  Or a washboard dirt road?

       What pisses me off is that all the technology exists right now for me to drive a much more efficient vehicle that would meet my requirements of going off the pavement and carrying a load, but highway geared compact SUV's with a diesel engine aren't available in CA.

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:07:34 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

We'd still do even better by penalizing one car one driver fanatics for not carpooling. Gridlock is still our biggest ongoing issue-compounded by selfishness. It reduces everyone's efficiency in getting around in city driving.


i think cities are the biggest problem. Too many people in one place... makes everyone grumpy. We'd do better by far to reduce our population by a third or so.

i'm not really sure of the science behind "compressed air cars"... it goes against all the laws of physics that i'm aware of. Kinda smells like... geez, it's kinda familiar, but i can't quite place it... Makes me think of spring, humid, pastoral meadows, extra-rare beef... oh, now i've got it- that's bull shit i smell!

Much like the Tesla Roadster, i'll believe it when i see a few of them comprehensively tested by independent, impartial outlets.

(Stewie Griffin)
You know, the Tesla Roadster? Electric car? Supercar performance? Sexy styling? Practical range? Magazine articles all over the place? Hundred grand? Celebrity buyers? First run sold out a year ago? Supposed to be out in October 2007? Everybody got theirs now? Seeing them all over the place? All the big car review sites tested them out? No? November 2007? First quarter 2008?

Oh, well they've got three weeks left, i'm sure they'll all be delivered by then...
(/Stewie Griffin)

Marketing. Demand proof, or be proven a chump.

(in reply to Leatherist)
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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:12:00 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Archer, thompson likes to throw out lots of questions, though he refuses to ever answer any. 

Also the light weight would be problematic for getting traction on ice and snow.  And you would have to have another source of generating heat to keep the windshield defrosted. 


Exactly as much water, doubt it. We are constantly losing water vapor into space, as well as picking up periodic meteors of ice water.  And biological processes, break water apart.  But the issue is with amount of usable water, you gonna put salt water on your crops? 

Thompson, you really don't seem to grasp that much of the energy savings is based on the fact that these are golf cart sized vehicles with virtually no weight or carrying capacity.  Same thing goes for a Mag lev train.
 

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 3/13/2008 11:37:43 PM >

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:18:37 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Internal combustion is just not as efficient as electric motors. The MOST efficient city method is larger scale mass transit(that you can actually do your shopping for larger items on-unlike a tiny ass bus) And prefferably off of rail systems by toll routes. Fail to pay your usuage fees-and your vehicle does on make it past the turnpike booth. It would also have the effect of keeping drunks and uninsured motorists off of the highways.

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:21:12 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline 		It will be fun to see these air powered "babies" to blow up in action movies. Couple of thousand PSI-s make an impressive bang.
They are cleaner and more economical to run but the only energy advantage comes from the light weight and small size.

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:27:12 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		The thing I thought of that I can't quite grasp with these electric cars. Is how come the battery just isn't swapped at the station. For another, and they would just track the charge hours of the battery swapped versus the battery given and charge or credit appropriately, or you could just have a battery contract with a particular battery station. It wouldn't be that difficult to build that into the car design, and then there is no waiting for charging. Just like gas.  They just constantly charge the batteries at the station and have extras to account for charge time.


< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 3/13/2008 11:28:50 PM >

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/13/2008 11:37:07 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Need to use you , because the batteries are huge, basically filling up the trunk, and you would have to have a warehouse where every gas station is located.  One gas station, can service how many thousands of cars in a day?  Think of the size of the warehouse required to do the same.  How many corners have 2 or 3 gas stations on them?

Amw, wouldn't they spin around like a jumping jack type firework if punctured?  That would make a great action scene/

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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/14/2008 1:19:04 AM   
Foititis


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
i'm not really sure of the science behind "compressed air cars"... it goes against all the laws of physics that i'm aware of. Kinda smells like... geez, it's kinda familiar, but i can't quite place it... Makes me think of spring, humid, pastoral meadows, extra-rare beef... oh, now i've got it- that's bull shit i smell!

Which ones specifically?
Air powered engines are nothing new, we even use them in some forklifts, It stands to reason the technology could be refined into a workable car.

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 20
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