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RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/14/2008 11:22:40 PM   
Foititis


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Joined: 10/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
I thought forklifts used hydraulics, which is quite different.  I think the question has to do with getting more more power from the compressed air than it took to compress it.   But the compresed air is just a storage medium. 

I was imprecise, I mean they use compressed air engines the 'fork' uses hydraulics yes

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/15/2008 12:39:02 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     What pisses me off is that all the technology exists right now for me to drive a much more efficient vehicle that would meet my requirements of going off the pavement and carrying a load, but highway geared compact SUV's with a diesel engine aren't available in CA.

Rich:
What is to stop you from going where they are available and buying one and bringing it back?
thompson









       Are you sure you live in CA, Thompson?  Or do you just enjoy fighting with the DMV?  I have attempted to put CA license plates on one diesel I brought in from another state.  It was easier and cheaper to just drive it until the plates expired, and replace it.   That is a crusade for cantankerous old men.  

       On the other hand, if you know where to find a late model Subaru Legacy equivalent with about a 2.0 diesel that already has CA plates, let me know.  


        

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/15/2008 7:14:09 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



      Are you sure you live in CA, Thompson?  Or do you just enjoy fighting with the DMV?  I have attempted to put CA license plates on one diesel I brought in from another state.  It was easier and cheaper to just drive it until the plates expired, and replace it.   That is a crusade for cantankerous old men.  

      On the other hand, if you know where to find a late model Subaru Legacy equivalent with about a 2.0 diesel that already has CA plates, let me know.  


       

Rich:
I don't know about new vehicles but I have an 82 Peugeot 505 diesel that I brought in from out of state that now has California plates on it and it does not require a bi-annual smog check.
All I did when I changed the registration over was to go to the AAA and give them the money and proof of insurance.  This was five or six years ago, things may have changed.
thompson






(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/15/2008 8:27:20 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

...it works on methane made from pig shit and propane when I don't produce enough methane.   


When you don't produce enough methane?  Perhaps you should add more beans to your diet?
 
Just a thought...
B

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This one, as well!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/15/2008 9:04:14 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foititis

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
i'm not really sure of the science behind "compressed air cars"... it goes against all the laws of physics that i'm aware of. Kinda smells like... geez, it's kinda familiar, but i can't quite place it... Makes me think of spring, humid, pastoral meadows, extra-rare beef... oh, now i've got it- that's bull shit i smell!

Which ones specifically?
Air powered engines are nothing new, we even use them in some forklifts, It stands to reason the technology could be refined into a workable car.


i didn't know that there were compressed-air forklifts, just CNG and propane... but still, a forklift is a very different proposition than a passenger car in terms of range and speed requirements. i don't question that you can power a vehicle by compressed air, only that you can make a viable for the real-world limitations of passenger cars.

Anyway, i guess the laws of physics reference was inappropriate, because i'm too long out of physics classes to put it in those terms, however... Storage. It took a while, but i finally found some actual numbers on the car... Modest enough range/top speed promises, but holy crap, 4350 PSI? Hard to believe the U.S. will allow that on the roadways, but okay, that makes it a bit more plausible, although something i sure as hell wouldn't want to be in a collision with... Off the top of my head, i didn't think that compressed air held nearly enough potential energy to do the amount of work they're promising, but i didn't realize expect that much pressure.

However, i can't find anything that addresses how they handle the descending curve of pressure as the tank drains (obviously it's metered at the high end, and runs off of far less than max pressure, but what's the minimum?) What about temperature changes? i wonder if it runs an alternator for accessories, or if the batteries need to be charged as well as the tank... Then the "fueling" equipment, i suspect, will be very expensive, and probably require a lot more maintenance than your typical gas pump, and generate a lot of waste heat at the site... And assuming their "up to 125 miles" range is under optimal conditions, i wonder what it is in stop-and-go traffic (obviously zero energy usage at idle, but without regenerative braking, it's going to take a hit from the increased energy needs under acceleration).

Basically, i see too much marketing, not enough science... which always sets off warning bells for me.

(in reply to Foititis)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Fuck Peak Oil: Give me Wind, Solar, Hydro and Compr... - 3/15/2008 9:14:48 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

How many delays did the Delorean experience?  It was not new technology only in who and how it was produced.  Of course it is always  fun to stand on the sidelines and criticize short comings of others. 



i repeat:

Marketing. Demand proof, or be proven a chump.

i'm not a heckler, i'm a cynic. There's a difference.  When they first announced the Tesla, every automotive/tech magazine and blog in the country had a simultaneous orgasm even though they had no independent tests to back up their claims. Celebrities raced forward with their orders (never a good sign). And six months after they were supposed to be delivered... Oh, look, they've got squat! How 'bout dat. Meanwhile, i bet people have invested a lot of money into that company based on a sexy prototype and promises...

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Rich:
What is to stop you from going where they are available and buying one and bringing it back?
thompson


     Are you sure you live in CA, Thompson?  Or do you just enjoy fighting with the DMV?  I have attempted to put CA license plates on one diesel I brought in from another state.  It was easier and cheaper to just drive it until the plates expired, and replace it.   That is a crusade for cantankerous old men.     


lol, that was my thought as well... Last i heard, Bill Gates never did manage to get his Porsche 959 registered for the road. If he couldn't do it with his his money and lawyers, ain't no regular Joe gonna get an off-spec Diesel legally registered in this country... Closest you're gonna get is an engine swap or plate swap with a US model in a no-inspection state.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 46
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