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ORIGINAL: masterfixer
drive eco fuel cars, electric or battery cars.. mean while I will drive my 8 miles to the gallon 4x4 truck to the post office.

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ORIGINAL: subfever

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ORIGINAL: Leatherist

We'd still do even better by penalizing one car one driver fanatics for not carpooling. Gridlock is still our biggest ongoing issue-compounded by selfishness. It reduces everyone's efficiency in getting around in city driving.

Ahh yes, that's what we need... even more government in our lives.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      What pisses me off is that all the technology exists right now for me to drive a much more efficient vehicle that would meet my requirements of going off the pavement and carrying a load, but highway geared compact SUV's with a diesel engine aren't available in CA.

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ORIGINAL: petdave

i'm not really sure of the science behind "compressed air cars"... it goes against all the laws of physics that i'm aware of. Kinda smells like... geez, it's kinda familiar, but i can't quite place it... Makes me think of spring, humid, pastoral meadows, extra-rare beef... oh, now i've got it- that's bull shit i smell!
I am not sure of which laws of physics you are referring to but the internal combustion engine is a compressed air engine.  The external combustion engine(steam engine) is a compressed air engine.  The only difference here is the mechanism for compressing the air.


Much like the Tesla Roadster, i'll believe it when i see a few of them comprehensively tested by independent, impartial outlets.

(Stewie Griffin)
You know, the Tesla Roadster? Electric car? Supercar performance? Sexy styling? Practical range? Magazine articles all over the place? Hundred grand? Celebrity buyers? First run sold out a year ago? Supposed to be out in October 2007? Everybody got theirs now? Seeing them all over the place? All the big car review sites tested them out? No? November 2007? First quarter 2008?

Oh, well they've got three weeks left, i'm sure they'll all be delivered by then...
(/Stewie Griffin)
How many delays did the Delorean experience?  It was not new technology only in who and how it was produced.  Of course it is always  fun to stand on the sidelines and criticize short comings of others. 


Marketing. Demand proof, or be proven a chump.

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ORIGINAL: awmslave

It will be fun to see these air powered "babies" to blow up in action movies. Couple of thousand PSI-s make an impressive bang.
They are cleaner and more economical to run but the only energy advantage comes from the light weight and small size.

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ORIGINAL: Archer

#1 the logic trap is going to fail you there thompson. Of course it could have been achieved by other means of allocating assets. But the fact is it wasn't. The fact is it is a for profit company that has done it. Without any mandate from government.
My point was that the form of financing has nothing to do with the technology.  You will also note that there is nothing revolutionary about the technology...heat pumps,solar panels,tubular frame,aerodynamic body,electric motor.


#2 Avoid charging at temperatures above 120°F or higher!
Not too many people live at this temperature.

And be careful above 100°F. The ideal temperatures for batteries are 55-80°F.
The ideal temp for flooded lead acid batteries is 77f or 20c.  Take this from someone who has been living on solar for the past twenty years. 

In below freezing temps it will take more power to charge your batteries, as cold batteries have a greater self-discharge rate.   Liquid lead-acid cells should be protected from freezing.  At high temps gassing is excessive and you may have to add more distilled water to maintain your cells.  Batteries basically like the same temperatures that we do.  Too hot or too cold is hard on them!
This is directly from a site on deep cycle lead acid batteries.
I don't think the Aptera uses flooded lead acid batteries.

The overnight storage of the car being one of the major factors I'm looking at not during use but during non use extream cold can be a problem for batteries. (not that it's not a problem for internal combustion)  The solar heat pump is for cooling or heating the passenger compartment from what I read (note read didn't do the video read the article) although it does say something about helping charge the battery when parked (assuming not plugged in) So that might help with self discharge of abtteries when very cold. But that does no good during an overnight being parked but not plugged in.
If the battery compartment is controlled by the heat pump the above is not relevant.


However a bit extra reading has the temperature problem solved if they get the Lithium Phosphate batteries tested and implimented. But as the article says they (Aptera ) are still evealuating them. (acceptable temp rtange -20C to 55 C that's not bad even though some extream sub polar environments get bellow that.
That temperature range would certainly seem to be doable in anyplace where humans might drive a car.
I looked on their website and associated sites and could not find any discussion of the type of battery they were using.  Where did you find it.

#3  "...the entire vehicle sits at approximately 1480 pounds today."
From Page 2 of the slide show.

That's flyweight. compared to 6,000 lbs+  for an F150 pickup.
A Ford F150 has a curb weight of 4650 lbs.
A Toyota full size pick up is in the 2500 to 3000 lbs range depending on the year.


So if the batteries will carry the flyweight 120 miles at reasonable accleration and F=ma then how well you figure the batteries will accelerate something 4 times the mass?
No we are talking two to three times the mass not four.
 
So the pickup would have no pickup. Remember you have only the space in a fuel tank to put enough batteries to accelerate that weight.
Not so...you have the space of the fuel tank the space of the transmission and the engine.  Remember an electric motor takes up much less space per horsepower than an IC engine  Plus the fact that it takes 2 IC hp to be equal to one electric hp.
This coupled with the fact that a dc motor makes max torque at zero rpm.


Now all that said this is a great innovation, they are doing good work and eventually they will make it to the point where electric vehicles will be scaled up to something the average driver needs,
Are you suggesting that the average driver needs a f150 pick up?

and even the point where those of us that need SUV size and versitility can be using electric only trucks. I'll be glad when that day comes. I'm simply not fooling myself into thinking that this vehicle is going to serve all the needs I have today.
I have a 1981 ford fairlane station wagon that was made in the factory as an electric vehicle.  It uses flooded lead acid batteries (1200 lbs) and it will exceed freeway speeds but is limited to about sixty miles of range between charges.  Imagine what it would be capable of with a more powerful and lighter battery pack?

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Need to use you , because the batteries are huge, basically filling up the trunk, and you would have to have a warehouse where every gas station is located.  One gas station, can service how many thousands of cars in a day?  Think of the size of the warehouse required to do the same.  How many corners have 2 or 3 gas stations on them?

Amw, wouldn't they spin around like a jumping jack type firework if punctured?  That would make a great action scene/

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Gee and here and here I thought 77 F was between 55 and 80F LOL

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ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Need to use you , because the batteries are huge, basically filling up the trunk, and you would have to have a warehouse where every gas station is located.  One gas station, can service how many thousands of cars in a day?  Think of the size of the warehouse required to do the same.  How many corners have 2 or 3 gas stations on them?

Amw, wouldn't they spin around like a jumping jack type firework if punctured?  That would make a great action scene/

The size or weight doesn't matter you just use a lift designed for the task. They have such things already. Any car plant is full of such specialized machines.  I don't think storage is the issue as you'd just stack them vertically in racking designed for them with integrated charges. The area to hold hundreds of batteries would not be lhat large, considering  you could stack them multiple stories high, in specialized racking/chargers, and pull them with a lift specific for the job. It wouldn't look like a regular gas station that's for sure, but it wouldn't take  a huge amount more in area either. Hell, you could store them underground. Then it's no more area. The costs of those gas tanks and burying them is quite substantial as well, along with the fact that an ex-gas station is always hard to sell around here anyway because of the regulations in regards to the old tanks.

I don't see why it's not doable. It'd definitely cost a lot ot design the initial equipment. But after that It's nothing more than racks, chargers, and specialized lifts. This isn't new technology or even radical.

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ORIGINAL: tsatske

I'm not sure exactly what you meant here, since there is clearly a typo somewhere in here, but, 77 fahrenheit is about 25 C, or 20 Celsius is about 68 F, so his comment was in line, mathematicly. actually, 20C is somewhere between 65 and 70 F.
To convert Fahrenheit to Celsius, subtract 32 and divide by 1.8. So 55 degrees Fahrenheit is about 13 degrees Celsius, while 80 Fahrenheit is closer to 27 Celsius, If I am doing all my math correctly?

You are absolutely correct.  Please forgive my typo.

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ORIGINAL: Archer
Which brings to mind the next question how many miles does this thing travel at night when you need headlights? (not bashing it just bringing up a factor that bears directly on storage of electric power.) Something they need to work out is all.

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ORIGINAL: Archer


Well Thompson when I travel for work (80% of my driving as a telecomuter is going to client sites), it's me one or two 48 quart coolers, a toolbox, 4 different meters, a box of bailers, 2 5 gallon bucket, a survey set, and if it's an overnight a suitcase a briefcase, and a laptop. hell my work tools weigh more than I do.

Sure alot of folks buy trucks that use them about once a month for anything they are designed for. Tons of folks have bought SUV's purely to avoid the image of the minivan. which was created to get away from the station wagon which is exactly what the SUV used to be.

I'll need a new truck in about 2 years (god I hope the 13 year old jeep lasts another 2 years) I looked for the hybrid trucks and found that all the really good hybrid tech i not available in them yet. Chevy has a partial hybrid, but it's nothing beyond 2-4 MPG higher than the regular truck.

I keep hopeing though.

A lot of my driving is between here and Vegas so it is mostly highway...I manage about 22 mpg....but I just got a gear vendors overdrive from the junque yard and after I put some fresh bearings in it I am gonna shorten the drive shaft and stuff it in behind the crash box to see if I can't squeeze a bit more mileage out of the old bitch.  Yeah one door is held shut with a bungee cord and she is ugly as home made sin but she starts first time every time and no one wants to share paint with me.  Besides every time I think of thirty or forty grand for a new one I start to go into shock.  Besides she only has a little over a million miles on her...it would be a shame to toss her before I get her all the way broke in.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1
An electric car that generates its own power from an on board fuel (like say compressed air or hydrogen--even using gasoline in that manner is far more efficient.  Just a little IC on the generator)  source makes far more sense.