RE: that little/big word concensual

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:34:37 AM

colouredin

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I guess it depends, Sir doesnt say "right then strawbs now we are going to do this, then this, then this, do you consent?" I have consented so being his, I did so in the knowledge that he knows me very well and pays attention to my reactions and wouldnt push me to far, I simply know this of him therefore I pretty much do as I am told, (Though I did get called stroppy today because I asked who was going to be at a party cos I didnt want to go if it was people I didnt like, he said tough)

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:36:25 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
Though I did get called stroppy today ...

I love that word. :)

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:39:43 AM

colouredin

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lol in its fullness it was "stroppy subby", gotta love alliteration

< Message edited by colouredin -- 3/13/2008 11:40:33 AM >

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:40:23 AM

CreativeDominant

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I agree with Archer and bound2one, as my first post on this subject indicates.

The type of activity that Sailing Bum alludes to is very hot and yes, I like doing that...but I have the patience to build the trust and some knowledge about me into the submissive and...important to me...she has had the opportunity to show me that she can be trusted and I have gained knowledge about her. At that point, doing certain things that push certain areas...boundaries or not boundaries but a bit tough...becomes easier and extends the trust and knowledge further. I agree that submission is sometimes about doing things that you don't like but I tend to see that as a bigger, more important issue outside the bedroom wherein D/s may be taking place and may be a very important part of what is taking place but the main activity is BDSM play. Outside the bedroom (and as noted, sometimes in it), there are always going to be things that a submissive is called upon to do that are within her limits that she does not like...and doing them because she agreed to submit is what is called for. But me starting in on an activity that could lead to damage because there is an underlying condition I wasn't aware of and which she would have told me of if we had had the "discussion and consent negotiation of activities" before I started isn't my cup of tea. Call me paranoid or overly cautious or overly caring but I prefer to go into discussion mode when I am planning on introducing new activities that DO begin to bump up against boundaries or even when I want to introduce activities that may not be boundary-limited but which she has not experienced before. I have no desire to wake up again on another morning with my toy bag being dropped by my head and being told "The police may be on the way...you might want to get out of here or they definitely will be"...and that is a true instance in which the submissive was aware of 90% of what I was going to do. It was the 10% that got me.

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:55:25 AM

lally3

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I consented to the abuse I received in my marriage, in that I allowed him to treat me the way he did.

having been in an abusive vanilla relationship i know what youre talking about here. i thought about the consent issue here and ive decided it wasnt consent, it wasnt consensual, it was abuse pure and simple. women and men may stay in abusive relationships for a variety of reasons but not because they consented to it and staying there doesnt equal consent.

While I might hate the individual experience of something he is doing with/to me, I benefit from it in the long run. It is not abuse because my spirit thrives as his slave.

yes because it is consensual - sorry, but that is the difference. your submission is, under the premis it pivots on, consensual bdsm. it works for you on different levels, but the ultimate difference here to the abusive relationship you mention is that your Sir respects you, appreciates what you give to him and values your submission to him. your spirit wouldnt thrive otherwise.

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 12:34:42 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I agree that submission is sometimes about doing things that you don't like

...or not doing things that you do like. If I like everything, but don't get to engage in everything I like, that's still submission, yes? Or, perhaps I do like everything and I get to engage in everything I like, but Himself determines the timing of those things. Still submission? I think so.

Himself owns my time, a finite yet variable commodity. I may go through my entire life with him and never once have to do something I don't like and that won't change the fact of his ownership.

On consent - now there's a tricky concept as well. If he has the ability to compel me to do something, does that equate to consent? If I want to say no, I desire to say no, I have the urge to say no, but I say yes because I either can't seem to help myself or I'm not willing to suffer the consequences of saying no (duress perhaps?) is that consensual? There are some folks who just have this dominant presence and are able to rip my power right out of me and make me want to fall to my knees and do their bidding regardless of what that may be (that's how it was with Himself). Granted, they are few and far between but, still, they're out there. That's also how it was with Master A. He just had that IT factor and I wasn't equipped to consent (informed or otherwise) because I felt compelled. There was no trust established, I didn't even know him the first time we met. It just .. I don't know, it just 'was' and I was still MIB and wouldn't have said no if I knew no was an option. It didn't seem to be.

Seems to me that consent is voluntary and there are other ways which people engage in M/s or D/s relationships. I mean, I don't consent to blink or breathe. I do them without thought. I can control them (hold my breath for a time, close my eyes etc.) but why would I when it's more comfortable to let those things happen naturally? Himself inspires me, he compels me and all that said, if it mattered, I'd consent. To me, it doesn't matter and since there are just the two of us in his universe, it shouldn't matter to anyone else either.

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 12:50:17 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I agree with Archer and bound2one, as my first post on this subject indicates.

The type of activity that Sailing Bum alludes to is very hot and yes, I like doing that...but I have the patience to build the trust and some knowledge about me into the submissive and...important to me...she has had the opportunity to show me that she can be trusted and I have gained knowledge about her. At that point, doing certain things that push certain areas...boundaries or not boundaries but a bit tough...becomes easier and extends the trust and knowledge further. I agree that submission is sometimes about doing things that you don't like but I tend to see that as a bigger, more important issue outside the bedroom wherein D/s may be taking place and may be a very important part of what is taking place but the main activity is BDSM play. Outside the bedroom (and as noted, sometimes in it), there are always going to be things that a submissive is called upon to do that are within her limits that she does not like...and doing them because she agreed to submit is what is called for. But me starting in on an activity that could lead to damage because there is an underlying condition I wasn't aware of and which she would have told me of if we had had the "discussion and consent negotiation of activities" before I started isn't my cup of tea. Call me paranoid or overly cautious or overly caring but I prefer to go into discussion mode when I am planning on introducing new activities that DO begin to bump up against boundaries or even when I want to introduce activities that may not be boundary-limited but which she has not experienced before. I have no desire to wake up again on another morning with my toy bag being dropped by my head and being told "The police may be on the way...you might want to get out of here or they definitely will be"...and that is a true instance in which the submissive was aware of 90% of what I was going to do. It was the 10% that got me.

Ehhh I agree with you up to a point. I not a idiot tho some ppl might argue that point. The first time we meet I'm not coming at her with my chainsaw kink. I am not going to open a dialog about a kink beforehand. If it's out of her bounds we will deal with it afterward. Typically my reply is deal with it cuz the door swings both ways.

BadOne

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 1:27:43 PM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

No it's not. D/s is about the enjoyment of the D-type. Endurance for the D-type is called submission.

For you perhaps that is submission, for me it is because I enjoy doing what he enjoys. I enjoy pleasing him. I enjoy seeing him happy. I do this by being obedient to what he wants me to do. At the same time if I was not enjoying something, and in fact it was unenjoyable to me and he continued to do it, I do not know if I could respect his leadership anymore... example, I have a hard time with anal because it takes a lot of warm up for me to do it. If he took me with no warm up and I experienced a great amount of discomfort then it would make me even more tense in the future when he tried it.I know from experience that this is how I am. Anal is either painful or wonderful for me.. there is no inbetween and one bad experience can set me back in being able to psychologically accept doing it. If he kept doing it even though I was in pain, I would not call that submission.. I would call that martyrdom.... and I have no intention of being a martyr.

I know this is just your opinion, for you, but many people read such things and others pipe in to obtain a consensus... so I am posting my disagreement with your view of what submissive is to say I do not agree with it.

That being said, consent is a tricky issue for me, because there are some things he can do that will leave me unable, and perhaps even unwilling, to stop him. I can neither consent nor withdraw my consent when I get into a certain headspace. He knows this. Consent is important to him, and that I consent is important to him, but there is a slight edge there that comes out between us at times, an edge that we have walked where I may want to stop, yet cannot vocalize an objection to get him to stop... lines of consent can become very blury, which is why I am adamant that one should tread carefully before handing oneself over so completely.

julia

< Message edited by SinergyNstrumpet -- 3/13/2008 1:29:02 PM >

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 2:32:09 PM

Lumus

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Oddly enough, the aspect of my life which involves the most consent is the sexual one.

Now, if the rest would fall in line...

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 4:32:56 PM

SubbieOnWheels

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Perhaps you should look up the word yea I'm serious. Sure we are both going to enjoi it If you submit to me as do as your told. That's the point you enjoi it cuz your submitting to their wants not yours.

BadOne

Well, I've been told I'm not a "twue" submissive because I want my own pleasure as well as giving my partner pleasure. I guess everybody is right.

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 6:38:33 PM

DesFIP

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Healthy boundaries are essential for everyone, d/s or vanilla. Unfortunately they are as rare here as everywhere else.

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:28:10 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

women and men may stay in abusive relationships for a variety of reasons but not because they consented to it and staying there doesnt equal consent.

Perhaps that is true for many, but it did equal consent to me. And the only way I could heal from that abuse and not remain a victim to it was to understand that I let it happen, to understand why I let it happen, to create boundaries for myself in my life so that it wouldn't happen again, and to forgive myself for having allowed it to happen in the first place.

Your OP was about consent. My post was about how consent works in my world. I am not speaking for all abused people; I am speaking for myself, and only I, my Master, and those who knew me well when I was in that relationship are qualified to do that. I respect that people have had different experiences than that. But this was my experience.

quote:

yes because it is consensual - sorry, but that is the difference. your submission is, under the premis it pivots on, consensual bdsm. it works for you on different levels, but the ultimate difference here to the abusive relationship you mention is that your Sir respects you, appreciates what you give to him and values your submission to him. your spirit wouldnt thrive otherwise.

My spirit does not thrive because of consensual bdsm. My spirit thrives because I am in a relationship in which I can be true to myself - a D/s relationship that happens to practice bdsm activities. I consent to being in the relationship. Some of the things that occur in the relationship are against my preference, but they occur anyway. I accept them, and I have consented to them by default because I have consented to being in the relationship.

The difference is not consent, as you originally said. The difference is what you ended up saying - because my spirit thrives in the relationship, because my Master does value me enough to allow me to be true to myself in my submission to him. Abuse vs. thriving, in my world, has little to do with consent and intent and more to do with healthy adults valuing each other and encouraging the best in each other.

I consented to both relationships. One was abusive; the other is nourishing. But I consented to both.

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:35:55 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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For me the term consent is still not clear enough to get what I need.

Free, informed consent so far has been enough to cover it.

And you can make an informed choice to remain uninformed :)

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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:48:40 PM

ownedgirlie

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