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RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:36:01 AM

ottRopesandKnots

Posts: 105
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels
When I submit, it is with the full knowledge of what I'm submitting to. If it's something new to me, I damn well reserve the right to say, "No, I don't enjoy that." I'm willing to try many things, but if I don't like them, why should I have to endure them?

Isn't the whole thing about the enjoyment of the experience by both parties?

This whole BDSM thing means lots of things... I might suggest that what you describe is kink, and aspects of BDSM, but not necesarilly the D/s (Dominant/submissive) portion of it and probably more of a top/bottom dynamic. I think other posters are coming at it from a D/s point of view where "I don't like it" isn't really an appropriate reason for a limit if you're being submissive. We're a complicated bunch, we all have our niches and preferences in our BDSM playground.

< Message edited by ottRopesandKnots -- 3/13/2008 8:38:59 AM >

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

Post #: 21

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:37:09 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

I know this is really picky..

Yep yep and yep. I hate the spelling police. I'm like go find other ways to annoy ppl.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 22

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:42:27 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

I know this is really picky..

Yep yep and yep. I hate the spelling police. I'm like go find other ways to annoy ppl.

BadOne

This is one of my favorite ways to annoy people.

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 23

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:42:52 AM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

You have your ways and we have ours....

mwa hahahahaha

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Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 24

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:44:55 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Too simplified for me BoiJen. There is enjoyment/ fulfillment in submitting, bending your will to match that of your Dominant partner. So it is abot enjoyment/ fullfilment of both parties. If the submissive partner is not getting enjoyment/ fullfilment in some way from the submission then there is little sense in continueing the relationship.

I think the middle ground is there though.
submission is about submitting even to things you don't directly enjoy, knowing that you trade off momentary dislike for delayed gratification from the opportunity to serve.

If the opportunity to serve is not a gratifyng experience, then one is submitting for what reason?

I think if you reread what you said you and boijen are saying the same thing in a different way.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 25

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:45:24 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline

I don't have long conversations with my new partner about bdsm. I just do it and work out the details as we go along.

.. and in a consensual bdsm relationship where your partner has a measure of who you are and how you like things to be, then fine, alls well and horny.

its when people dont work out the details as they go along, which includes the begining bit aswell, that things can start to significantly blow.

i dont think you have to have laboured conversations about any of it, but you do need to find a common ground and you do need to know what you want from it all.

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 26

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:48:49 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

some details are important to work out, if someone has a phobia about needles or blood or the likes. But if it's variations of activities that are already established as desireable then no further negotation is needed, I think.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 27

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:57:19 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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lally I was refering to any part of the relationship. New or 20 years in it. I don't discuss what Im gonna do beforehand. It aint happening period dot exclaimtion point. Types to annoi the spulling coppers.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 28

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 9:16:06 AM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

Okay sir, turn around, put your hands on the wall and spread your legs...

oh

wait...what?

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Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 29

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 9:26:25 AM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

now this isnt absolutely formulated in my head, so might be jumbled (casts a wary eye at sailingbum.)

its something ive been thinking alot about recently and would like to air.

early twenties, fresh in london i met a guy - he'd obviously read about power exchange and D/s because i can recognise it now for what it was. then i had no clue. he didnt talk to me about it atall he just did it, but badly.

looking back i can honestly say it was very mild, but because i had no idea why he did the things he did, because they came out of the blue and without explanation - i ended up confused and resentful.

The visual is stunning now im going to pinch your nipple ...now im going to slap your ass .... now im gonna you get the idea. My point I don't have long conversations with my new partner about bdsm. I just do it and work out the details as we go along. If she considers it abuse she knows where the door is. It's not that complicated.

BadOne

hmm. i think there's a difference between "not having long discussions" and "having (partner) pull something on me with no warning when i had no idea that was on the brain!", you know?

i'm all for having a great time....vanilla OR spicy. i'd just like a little heads-up going into the movie about what the plot is about. if i'm going in to see something with "saw" in the title, i'm prepared for those scenes. if it has "disney" as part of its advertising, i'm not.

kitten, who isnt sure this is coherant....

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 30

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 9:36:17 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

The visual is stunning now im going to pinch your nipple ...now im going to slap your ass .... now im gonna you get the idea. My point I don't have long conversations with my new partner about bdsm. I just do it and work out the details as we go along. If she considers it abuse she knows where the door is. It's not that complicated.

BadOne

hmm. i think there's a difference between "not having long discussions" and "having (partner) pull something on me with no warning when i had no idea that was on the brain!", you know?

i'm all for having a great time....vanilla OR spicy. i'd just like a little heads-up going into the movie about what the plot is about. if i'm going in to see something with "saw" in the title, i'm prepared for those scenes. if it has "disney" as part of its advertising, i'm not.

kitten, who isnt sure this is coherant....

Oh you perfer predictiable kink. I'm not saying either way is right predictable planned out kink is just not my style.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 31

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 9:52:15 AM

Daddyslilpookie

Posts: 498
Joined: 3/3/2008
From: OC, California
Status: offline

I guess everybody is different, but Daddy knows I consent to anything he does to me. If he does bring me to my breaking point which he hasn't yet, I can withstand alot of pain. I will say uncle meaning stop I've had enough. Sailing Bum I agree planned out kink isn't our style either it has to be spontanious

.

_____________________________

Princess Andie

"A Woman Loves Only Her Master"

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 32

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 10:31:38 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Too simplified for me BoiJen. There is enjoyment/ fulfillment in submitting, bending your will to match that of your Dominant partner. So it is abot enjoyment/ fullfilment of both parties. If the submissive partner is not getting enjoyment/ fullfilment in some way from the submission then there is little sense in continueing the relationship.

I think the middle ground is there though.
submission is about submitting even to things you don't directly enjoy, knowing that you trade off momentary dislike for delayed gratification from the opportunity to serve.

If the opportunity to serve is not a gratifyng experience, then one is submitting for what reason?

i think the wrong sentences were bolded when quoting Archer...the Dominant i choose to submit to does not want me to not enjoy what we are doing...at least in the long term...i may not get instant gratification, but i always like the long term, always, without fail, in all areas, not just the bedroom, not just the playroom... (hey, have you and my Dom been talking Archer? j/k i know for a fact you haven't)...

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
it just bugs me, possibly unreasonably, because its none of my business what people do with their lives, but as the last half of your sydney harris quote says, it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable.

i also wanted to reply to this too...
chosen apathy because "it's not my problem" is almost as intolerable to me as outright cruelty...so, if you want to provide information to new people out there - and that is what you are doing, you are not spamming their inboxes, or anouncing it like it's the appocolypse...- i say go for it...they can either read it or not, it is up to them, but you have done what you can, don't regret that...

chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 33

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 10:41:38 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

My take is that people tend to consent to what they really desire.

And the desire of some, is to feel thay have that right taken away-it excites them.

But they also have at least enoiugh smarts not to choose chainsaw muderers to submit to.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 34

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 10:43:27 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Too simplified for me BoiJen. There is enjoyment/ fulfillment in submitting, bending your will to match that of your Dominant partner. So it is abot enjoyment/ fullfilment of both parties. If the submissive partner is not getting enjoyment/ fullfilment in some way from the submission then there is little sense in continueing the relationship.

I think the middle ground is there though.
submission is about submitting even to things you don't directly enjoy, knowing that you trade off momentary dislike for delayed gratification from the opportunity to serve.

If the opportunity to serve is not a gratifyng experience, then one is submitting for what reason?

agreed.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 35

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:01:34 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline

he didnt talk to me about it atall he just did it, (((( but badly. ))))
newbie subs offerring themselves up as sacrificial maidens to the unseen Lord of Netland is stoopid, sorry stupid.

i just dont think those two concepts sit well together is all im saying.

spontaneous Dominance is hot - when you know and trust your Dom. subs submitting to their Dom is what subs should do and presumably they have already worked out, more or less, to some degree, lets hope, what is likely listed as possibles, strong possibles and absolutely without any question going to happen, like it or not.

all hot all good.

the point of this post was to suggest that newbies need to observe the consensual element and work out what they want before they go offereing everything to the 'have a go' halfwits that prey on newbies for all the obvious and recognised reasons.

(in reply to Daddyslilpookie)

Post #: 36

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:11:09 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I have mixed views about the word consent. Consent does not automatically mean lack of abuse. Sometimes people are in unhealthy situations and either don't realize it or can't find their way out. I consented to the abuse I received in my marriage, in that I allowed him to treat me the way he did. WHY I allowed it is a whole other conversation, but I did allow it, and it was abuse.

Fast forward to my Master and I. I suppose one could say when I begged for his ownership, and his way of ownership, that I consented to anything that might come my way as a result. There are lots of things that I have endured with him that I never wanted to endure. But belonging to him is better than not belonging to him, and I would have my life no other way. I trust his overall plan and outlook. I trust what he does. While I might hate the individual experience of something he is doing with/to me, I benefit from it in the long run. It is not abuse because my spirit thrives as his slave.

This opinion of mine is not limited to sexual activities or what movie we're going to see. It's inclusive of however he chooses to conduct my life and our relationship. I am currently enduring some decisions that are, for lack of a better word, excruciating. Am I consenting to outside forces dictating what happens in our world? No, but I'm accepting it. Am I consenting to his decisions as to what to do about it? I suppose I am. I don't like it, but I accept it. I'm not always going to like his decisions. I'm not always going to agree with them.

I don't see consent/non-consent as even being in the picture here. I submit to his will and that means I accept his decisions. This applies to sex, BDSM activities, life decisions, and everything beyond and in between. It's not a philosophy agreed with by everyone, but it is mine.

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 37

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:16:07 AM

Bound2One

Posts: 614
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
spontaneous Dominance is hot - when you know and trust your Dom. subs submitting to their Dom is what subs should do and presumably they have already worked out, more or less, to some degree, lets hope, what is likely listed as possibles, strong possibles and absolutely without any question going to happen, like it or not.

all hot all good.

the point of this post was to suggest that newbies need to observe the consensual element and work out what they want before they go offereing everything to the 'have a go' halfwits that prey on newbies for all the obvious and recognised reasons.

I think you're right, lally, and it's a good warning to newbies. I believe it is important to have the 'limits' discussion before submitting to a Dom. The 'have a go' method is dangerous and could easily open the newbie up to things that he/she never thought of before. It's just common sense.

Master and I had the initial 'limits' conversation when we first began our relationship. We had another chat recently (3 months later) because my mind has opened through being with him, and I am willing to move some things from my hard limits to my soft limits - my yes, please, let's work on those, Sir - list.

It's all a matter of trust, and it's smart, at first, when the Dominant is an unknown to hold back on those things that are borderline. YMMV! It's a rather quick, easy conversation giving him consent to many things, but I'll never know in advance what it is he's chosen to push limits on or what he plans to do that day... that's part of the suspense and surprise, and it's delish!

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 38

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:24:32 AM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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I tend to add the word informed to consent more often than not.
It's a little higher standard than simple consent.

I think the problem is not so much in the minutia of asking permission to do every little act of dominance. (which of course negates the dominance) But rather that the people both understand and know that A is going to control the action and Z is going to accept that control. And how far and how long that control is going to be extended. How informed one needs to be would also be directly related to how much control is being exercised. (ie the more areas and longer the control is to last, the more informed the person submitting to that control needs to be.)

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 39

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 11:26:22 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I tend to add the word informed to consent more often than not.
It's a little higher standard than simple consent.

Agreed, but in some cases, "informed" doesn't happen and trust needs to kick in, depending on the situation and relationship.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 40

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