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that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 6:43:17 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
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now this isnt absolutely formulated in my head, so might be jumbled (casts a wary eye at sailingbum.)

its something ive been thinking alot about recently and would like to air.

early twenties, fresh in london i met a guy - he'd obviously read about power exchange and D/s because i can recognise it now for what it was. then i had no clue. he didnt talk to me about it atall he just did it, but badly.

looking back i can honestly say it was very mild, but because i had no idea why he did the things he did, because they came out of the blue and without explanation - i ended up confused and resentful.

the word concensual is an enormous word in this lifestyle, without it, it becomes abuse.

in vanilla relationships the same. i did not give my consent to be raped, slapped or expected to respect the fact that monogomy was a dirty word. had i willingly agreed to these things i would have been a contented sub, instead i became confused and resentful.

now i know im yapping on to the already converted, but there have been alot of posts recently about negative responses to profiles. it seems these newbies think its ok to throw themselves out there but give little thought to what it is they want from the lifestyle.

a time will come when they will be talking to someone sensible and that is the time to build a concensual understanding - if they cant then they may well end up in a relationship that feels abusive.

having the 'catch all' mentality, where anything will go cos theyre a sub and thats how it must be is bollocks, dangerous bollocks.

if you want a healthy happy you, then its vital to work out what you can offer for definite and maybe find out the rest when youve found someone you trust.

be careful what you wish for.

Post #: 1

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:38:13 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

maybe slightly off tangent to your thoughts...

I think of consent and trust as active verbs, they aren't just something that is a one time thought, action or communication they are actively ongoing, fluid and evolving within a relationship.

I have an instinctive almost blind trust for m'Lord, but he actively builds on it through open communication and with the building of that trust the consent for activities previously unknown to be also grows. As I support and encourage his activities I am giving my consent to be a part of the relationship that contains those activities. I believe that consent and trust are symbiotic of each other and that they need attention and tending in order to continue to thrive in a healthy interaction.

< Message edited by OmegaG -- 3/13/2008 8:37:41 AM >

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 2

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:55:07 AM

SubbieOnWheels

Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline

lally and Omega, both of you make good sense.

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did, lally. when I was "introduced" to what was sort of BDSM, neither he nor I knew anything about it, but he did discuss what he wanted to try (usually) and got my consent. And he (again, usually) stopped if I wasn't enjoying the experience. It was the times when he did not discuss beforehand and obtain my consent and then did not stop that I not only didn't enjoy the experience - I was scared spitless.

I learned quite quickly to remove any mention of "new to the lifestyle" from my profile. A person new to BDSM, especially an s-type, may not understand the concept of consent. They may think that they must, as s-types, bow to the demands of any D-type that comes along. They may be talked into playing a slave when they are not constitutionally wired that way. The experience may, especially at first, be frightening.

I would also counsel those new to the scene: "You do not have to consent to anything. And you can remove your consent at any time and for any reason." I know there are both D-types and s-types in TPE who will argue the point, but I am a Libertarian, and I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 3

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:56:02 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I agree. Though I occasionally like resistance play...something in which consent can be a tricky issue... in a relationship, I like it when the relationship has evolved and you have learned much more about the person. Consent is built upon trust and knowledge. Consenting to play at mild things or even at dangerous things (when you know the knowledge/experience/success level of the person you're playing with) at first is a foundation to begin either laying bricks on or to watch as it cracks because someone...and it can be either the one seeking consent or giving it...did what they said they would do, successfully, and did not make wrong assumptions about what else could be done or because they did not follow through properly and/or took more than what was agreed to.

I know there are submissives out there who LIKE the idea of the dominant pushing it beyond what was agreed to on the first or second or third meeting. Good on them IF they let the dominant know that it was O.K., that it was appreciated, that it was positive. I have to say though that...in MHO...not saying anything about the unasked-for-yet-silently-consented to territory could give some dominants the idea that it is ALWAYS O.K. to push and, as noted by the O.P., in the beginning that just isn't so.

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 4

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 7:57:37 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

now this isnt absolutely formulated in my head, so might be jumbled (casts a wary eye at sailingbum.)

its something ive been thinking alot about recently and would like to air.

early twenties, fresh in london i met a guy - he'd obviously read about power exchange and D/s because i can recognise it now for what it was. then i had no clue. he didnt talk to me about it atall he just did it, but badly.

looking back i can honestly say it was very mild, but because i had no idea why he did the things he did, because they came out of the blue and without explanation - i ended up confused and resentful.

The visual is stunning now im going to pinch your nipple ...now im going to slap your ass .... now im gonna you get the idea. My point I don't have long conversations with my new partner about bdsm. I just do it and work out the details as we go along. If she considers it abuse she knows where the door is. It's not that complicated.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 5

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:04:08 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline

hi,

yes, i should have added communication too, thanks.

it just bugs me, possibly unreasonably, because its none of my business what people do with their lives, but as the last half of your sydney harris quote says, it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable.

assuming newbies are here because its so important to them, it staggers me that some of them seem so ill-prepared and misinformed. by not taking the word concensual to their hearts they run the strong possiblity of turning this wonderful thing into a nightmare for themselves. some might think it is simply semantics or obstructive to insist upon consent, trust, communication, but these things really do make a difference between happyness and complete misery.

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 6

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:05:18 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

yes, that's a point that both you and CD brought up that I didn't touch on.

We rarely talk about what is going to happen in a scene, in fact he tends to make it up as he goes, but the foundation of trust is on such a firm foundation that I willingly consent each and every time. Besides I like the not knowing and I strongly believe that he is responsible enough not to do anything crazy.

However, until the foundation of trust is layed the implied concent to specific activities can't be achieved.

< Message edited by OmegaG -- 3/13/2008 8:36:59 AM >

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 7

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:08:29 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

lally and Omega, both of you make good sense.

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did, lally. when I was "introduced" to what was sort of BDSM, neither he nor I knew anything about it, but he did discuss what he wanted to try (usually) and got my consent. And he (again, usually) stopped if I wasn't enjoying the experience. It was the times when he did not discuss beforehand and obtain my consent and then did not stop that I not only didn't enjoy the experience - I was scared spitless.

Eh I know I've been called crazy before. But I always thought submission was doing it to please the dom. Sure you can choose your submission but stopping cuz my girl didn't enjoi it is not a option. That strikes me as plain jane sex. "Oh honey don't do that cuz I'm not enjoing it" How it that submitting???

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

Post #: 8

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:14:26 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

I hate agreeing with SailingBum but he's right

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 9

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:18:41 AM

SubbieOnWheels

Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline

I guess that depends on your definition of submitting, doesn't it?

I have a strong will, and I've been an adult for many years, now. When I submit, it is with the full knowledge of what I'm submitting to. If it's something new to me, I damn well reserve the right to say, "No, I don't enjoy that." I'm willing to try many things, but if I don't like them, why should I have to endure them?

Isn't the whole thing about the enjoyment of the experience by both parties?

_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 10

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:23:19 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

lally and Omega, both of you make good sense.

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did, lally. when I was "introduced" to what was sort of BDSM, neither he nor I knew anything about it, but he did discuss what he wanted to try (usually) and got my consent. And he (again, usually) stopped if I wasn't enjoying the experience. It was the times when he did not discuss beforehand and obtain my consent and then did not stop that I not only didn't enjoy the experience - I was scared spitless.

Eh I know I've been called crazy before. But I always thought submission was doing it to please the dom. Sure you can choose your submission but stopping cuz my girl didn't enjoi it is not a option. That strikes me as plain jane sex. "Oh honey don't do that cuz I'm not enjoing it" How it that submitting???

BadOne

For me there are levels of enjoyment, my enjoyment or my enjoyment because of his enjoyment. Now if I wasn't feeling it and he wasn't feeling it but he was continuing because he thought I liked it, then it's time to stop.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 11

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:23:50 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I hate agreeing with SailingBum but he's right

Hey cutie no harm no foul. I don't get upset with ppl cuz they disagree with me. Life is way to short for me to allow that to happen.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 12

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:24:03 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

No it's not. D/s is about the enjoyment of the D-type. Endurance for the D-type is called submission.

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

Post #: 13

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:25:29 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

I know this is really picky.. but I see this so often (along with the I am a "dominate") .. .its consensual... the only C in the word is in the beginning...

it IS an important word, and to my mind.. that means its important to get the spelling right..

I am sorry to single your post out.. it happens regularly all over this site.. so I apologize for making the post here

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

Post #: 14

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:29:25 AM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

concensual

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 15

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:29:44 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

I guess that depends on your definition of submitting, doesn't it?

I have a strong will, and I've been an adult for many years, now. When I submit, it is with the full knowledge of what I'm submitting to. If it's something new to me, I damn well reserve the right to say, "No, I don't enjoy that." I'm willing to try many things, but if I don't like them, why should I have to endure them?

Isn't the whole thing about the enjoyment of the experience by both parties?

Perhaps you should look up the word yea I'm serious. Sure we are both going to enjoi it If you submit to me as do as your told. That's the point you enjoi it cuz your submitting to their wants not yours.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 3/13/2008 8:32:41 AM >

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

Post #: 16

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:31:14 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline

im happy to be corrected - (cant get the emoticons to work, so imagine im smiling)

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 17

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:31:26 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

so, being the word slut that I am, I wanted to see if there were American and English spellings and came up with this:

Concent
\Con*cent"\, n. [L. concentus, fr. concinere to sing together; con- + canere to sing.] 1. Concert of voices; concord of sounds; harmony; as, a concent of notes. [Archaic.] --Bacon.That undisturbed song of pure concent. --Milton.2. Consistency; accordance. [Obs.]
Which could add a whole other dimension to the post.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 18

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:32:59 AM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

I'm sorry, I didn't see the other one before I posted...believe me, it's not you it's me!

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to lally3)

Post #: 19

RE: that little/big word concensual - 3/13/2008 8:35:04 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Too simplified for me BoiJen. There is enjoyment/ fulfillment in submitting, bending your will to match that of your Dominant partner. So it is abot enjoyment/ fullfilment of both parties. If the submissive partner is not getting enjoyment/ fullfilment in some way from the submission then there is little sense in continueing the relationship.

I think the middle ground is there though.
submission is about submitting even to things you don't directly enjoy, knowing that you trade off momentary dislike for delayed gratification from the opportunity to serve.

If the opportunity to serve is not a gratifyng experience, then one is submitting for what reason?

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 20

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