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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 4:38:38 AM   
katie978


Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline 		   Many here say that they do not enjoy the pain on it's own. However, in this lifestyle, we frequently know enough about our partners before we actually engage in play to get a sense of how sadistic they are. If you do not seek pain, why seek a sadistic master? There are many other types of service, who choose someone who requires one that you don't enjoy? Perhaps some subconciously do enjoy pain, but prefer to play the victim during a scene?

   That's just a random musing, I'm sure you guys all know how to define yourselves without my help .

    As for myself, it's a little bit of both. I enjoy pain, to an extent. I also enjoy it that he's enjoy himself. Mutual enjoyment going on.

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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 4:43:10 AM   
MD1Master


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline






In my opinion, the enjoyment of pain is not a requirement of masochism.  One can enjoy the effects after the painful act such as the caresses, the holding and comforting, the allowed orgasm.  I view the pain as creating a polarity of feelings.  On one side there is the pain which, I believe, is unpleasant for everyone.  However, the opposite pole is the pleasure.  When the Dominant is able to create the pleasure equal to the pain, he/she has accomplished something great. 

The title masochism can adhere to an individual whom enjoys the before/after effects from the pain itself.  Again, this is simply my opinion.

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 10:38:09 AM   
travelgman


Posts: 187
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline 		You stated you do not like the pain. But you also say you enjoy the fact he is doing something to you that you do not want done. Perhaps you like the pain more than you want to admit at this point. But even if you do not like the pain. It certainly seems you are enjoying the overall experience regardless of the reason. And that is what matters the most. Learn all you can about yourself and what you do and do not like. But don't let a search for a word to describe yourself keep you from enjoying new things. You are what you are. Very few words really ever describe anyone completely.

(in reply to MD1Master)
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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 11:32:00 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I agree with the above posts... but I'm not so sure where I fit in.

I enjoy pain, to the point of where it's almost like therapy.. if that makes any sense? I don't inflict it on myself, but if I go any length of time without some form of discipline, say like a spanking, flogging, any kind of heavy (Thuddy?) impact play, I get anxious, nervous, and occasionally really depressed. I think I must be wired wrong. :-/



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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 12:17:35 PM   
MasterBlueTiger


Posts: 57
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		I had an interesting question. What about non-submissive toughies. You know, people who get stung by a bee or whatever and they are like "Whoa! Cool!" Another good stereotype is the martial arts action hero. Somone who gets beaten to pulp, but it only seems to make him stronger. Hope this isn't to weird a question. 

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(in reply to Lynnxz)
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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 12:37:53 PM   
Urdok


Posts: 29
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		@ Master Blue:

Endorphins and adreneline (spelling on both) do more than just make you feel high as a kite. They also up your pain tolerance and the likelyness of an aggressive response. Essentially, they're your body preparing itself for a flight or fight response.

Of course, for the first case, there are some people who just have extraordinarily high pain tolerances, and a lot more people who are compelled to pretend that they do.

Also- hurray for impact play! I didn't think there were that many of we fans of thuds out there.

(in reply to MasterBlueTiger)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 12:43:36 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not one to enjoy just any ol' pain. When I get a pain in my phantom limb, that is NOT enjoyable. It doesn't arouse me; I don't have a sexual reaction to it. I just want to curl up and cry. The pain I enjoy is that inflicted by a Dominant wielding a flogger, whip, or paddle (oh, yes, or his  bare hands) on certain parts of my body. I guess, analyzing it a bit - I enjoy pain inflicted for the purpose of sensual gratification of both parties.

_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels


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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 12:52:10 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		I like levels of pain. They get me sexually excited and they bring me to subspace. When the chemicals kick in i am able to endure higher levels of pain. That being said, It is not always pleasent or tolerable. For me as a women my hormones at the time dictate what I can tolerate. Lucky for me that I have a Sir that listens to me when I say too much. Some times I am a pain slut, other times not so much.

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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 3:42:09 PM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

but submission to pain is the hardest submission of all, for me.

lally


I'm really hoping this is a type of submission YOU want as well. The definition of Masochism can be found in any dictionary but it's how we interpret it to ourselves that bring it meaning. I know I'm a pain slut, I get aroused when Wolf is beating me bloody, at times my body is even responding when all my brain is saying to me is "oww!! crap, that hurt lol'  But it is certian types of pain and how it's inflicted. What is a senstaion to me might have someone else running and screaming for cover and vice versa. It's the how and why of internalizing it. I had a cleaning at the dentist's recently and trust me there was noooooo pleasure in that at all, what so ever, none.The 'big-bad-masochist' in me wanted to bolt out the door just at the sight of a dental chair. I had my hand held through nearly the whole thing, and trust me, I needed that hand.

Change the type of pain tho and  I've tried bottoming to someone who wasn't a sadist and it wasn't alot of fun for either of us. 
Submission, as you pointed out, can come in alot of diffrent forms. My own  comes out more when I can be of service,or by little actions, walking behind him, sitting at his feet instead of beside him,walking atttached to a leash I've discovered puts me in immediate subbie mode.:)    The pain that is part of our scenes or when we wrestle or just generally interact,  is something I share with him, I don't let many people have my pain, it's more personal than sex.

Some things will work for some and not for other's there is nothing wrong with not being a masochist either, it's what works in the dynamic of your relationship and if it's something you are willing to explore.


Wolf's denika

(in reply to lally3)
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RE: masochism - 3/12/2008 6:45:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: katie978
If you do not seek pain, why seek a sadistic master? There are many other types of service, who choose someone who requires one that you don't enjoy? Perhaps some subconciously do enjoy pain, but prefer to play the victim during a scene?

I'm sure some do, but not that many.

You ask a good question, and one I tortured myself over for quite a long while- when I AGAIN and AGAIN got into relationships with heavy sadists who LOVED knowing I was in pain and hating it.

I would say it's not what I sought, I didn't actively go looking for it.  I would also say that I think that sort of submission isn't terribly common- I heard all the time from people IN THE SCENE when I told them I was not a masochist automatically assume I didn't endure pain or were very confused when I tried to explain it.  Most kinky people don't get submission to pain on a regular basis.  So for a dominant sadist who really wants to hurt someone for THEIR pleasure alone, it's not that common and they snatch it up when they find it.

I also am a fear junkie, and control freak.  Pain feeds into THOSE desires very well.  Pain is scary! 

As I say, I love everything about pain play except the pain part.

I also had an interesting evolution this past summer in realizing that I no longer WILL submit to pain on a casual or regular basis.  It just hits me on a deep level that I don't feel connected to MYSELF unless I have a particular connection with that person.  Since it is submission to pain, the submission and domination must be an active integral part of the dynamic. 

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to katie978)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 2:37:03 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Lots of good discussion so far, I will throw my 2 cents worth in and note that you're paying way to much for it........


I am a masochist and was one before puberty or I started masterbating.   Pain for me comes in three basic categories: not worth noticing, exciting and frightful.   There is nothing in between, but there are shades of grey to each.

My love of pain is really quite simple, it give me an intensity and a thrilling rush that I can't get elsewhere.  It's not always sexual either, I sparred a lot in college and taking a good hit really rev'd me up.  There was nothing sexual about it, it was just a good burst of mental energy (of course, some licks were hard enough to make it physically impossible to use that energy.)

I also have my submissive streak, but I know several masochists who are totally non submissive.   One of whom is a woman who has an incredible love for pain, but can't play with most sadists as they try to be controlling of her and it completely destroys the moment for her.

I hope that helps and will be happy to do anything else to add to the confusion.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 6:19:09 AM   
ShellyD


Posts: 207
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Urdok


Also- hurray for impact play! I didn't think there were that many of we fans of thuds out there.


On the contrary, I think the thuddy lovers far outweigh the stingy. I am a thuddy fan and refer to stingy as ' that stingy fucker' invariably. Unfortunately it seems to me that the stingy is necessary for the thuddy to be so damned great.......

(in reply to Urdok)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 6:20:33 AM   
ShellyD


Posts: 207
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline 		hmmmm stingy looks like stingy ( as in mean with money/goods/etc) when written, I had never seen that before lol

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RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 7:30:13 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		heavy sadists who LOVED knowing I was in pain and hating it.

i used to 'know' a domme on here - she was, i believe, very active in the scene and a heavy sadist.  she said that she got more satisfaction from inflicting pain on a non-masochist sub than any other.  makes sense.

my thoughts on this thing of non-masochists seeking a masochistic outlet is that it has more effect mentally for me than being oh, i dont know, put in a corner and made to stay there.  infact having some time out in a corner would be a bit of a luxury!

but to be with an out and out sadist would be scary!

a problem arises though in that if you find yourself a Dom with no sadistic leanings atall the psychological outlet from submitting to pain from someone who wants to inflict it isnt there.

im sure i couldnt submit to big pain.  i couldnt handle hours of pain play atall, but submitting to some from a significant Someone who enjoys inflicting it is far more powerful for me than submission to someone who'd rather not.  mostly because well, whats the point.  if he doesnt enjoy it then im not going to get any release from submitting to it.

(in reply to ShellyD)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 8:00:19 AM   
KatsClaws12


Posts: 62
Joined: 4/24/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I agree with the above posts... but I'm not so sure where I fit in.

I enjoy pain, to the point of where it's almost like therapy.. if that makes any sense? I don't inflict it on myself, but if I go any length of time without some form of discipline, say like a spanking, flogging, any kind of heavy (Thuddy?) impact play, I get anxious, nervous, and occasionally really depressed. I think I must be wired wrong. :-/





I completely agree with the "therapy" of it all. My Mistress can always tell when I need a session. It helps me to release any stress from my life as well as being able to enjoy what all is being done in a session. She can read me so well, there are times where She will say " Its been awhile and your getting wound up so I think its time for another session." I didnt think about it at the time but when She says that I realize that She is absolutely right and I know that when we are able to have one I will be less stressed and be able to release everything and I will be good for another couple of weeks. 
It is something that I very much not only desire but Need. I dont think that you are wired wrong in any way. You are not alone in your needs, desires and thoughts.
I have to say that it is the best "therapy" that I have ever had!

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 8:11:14 AM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline 		Thuddy pain shakes me right to the core. That's what starts the arousing reaction. It has much the same effect of very loud rock music (which I actually hate, BTW) of shaking my innards. Then the sting of the horsehair flogger and singletail bite into the nerve endings that are already stimulated by the thuddy stuff. It breaks the rhythm and makes me pay attention.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShellyD

hmmmm stingy looks like stingy ( as in mean with money/goods/etc) when written, I had never seen that before lol

And that's how my screen reader pronounces it. I have to take a close, magnified look at it or sentences don't always make sense.

_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels


(in reply to ShellyD)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 8:18:44 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		My view of masochism is a little different than most here.  I see it as 2 types of masochists.
There are those who enjoy pain in general, and there are situational masochists who actually enjoy pain when it is in certain situations but can be generally pretty soft elsewhere. I dont see a submissive that endures pain but doesnt get anything out of IT (the pain itself, not the service it involves) as a masochist at all. Service and submission aside, if you do not enjoy the pain and the associated feelings then you arent masochistic. There are some who would like to be masochistic, but who's bodies dont allow for it, becasue as much as they would like to experience the pain their systems revolt and it becomes a negative experience.
Masochism revolves solely around the pain, not the after effects, not the outcome, and not the service it is part of.

Fox is a situational masochist. There are times he greatly enjoys the pain I inflict on him, and the resultant endorphins and such that enhance all our other play. There are other times he simply tolerates the pain as part of his service knowing it will make me happy.
Angel is about as far from a masochist as you can get, and he despises pain. I try my best not to hurt him, since it detracts from playtime even though I am a sadist.
There are some pets I have had that disliked pain and forcing them to hurt for me as part of their service was fun. Knowing they endured something to make me happy that they hated was where I found my enjoyment, not in the pain itself. Others, like in angel's case, were so thrown off by it that it made the scene unplayable.  He is still submissive, and still serves as I see fit, but pain simply cannot work with him becasue of how his body reacts.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 8:21:17 AM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

what i perceive as masochism is a very definite need and enjoyment of pain and that in some instances it doesnt even register as pain after a while.


It's more about submitting to fear, at least for me.  That's exciting.  Unusual physical sensations are interesting.  I don't like pain.  I like remembering pain though. 

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 8:42:22 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline 		fast reply---

i enjoy pain, i need pain, i've been known to do weird things like hurt myself just to feel pain (nothing serious and yes i've talked to people about it lol, not that i think anyone on this board would call me out on it anyway). i'm a masochist in that if i don't have pain i can't feel pleasure anymore. i'm also discovering that i'm an emotional masochist in that i literally need something pissing me off/stressing me out/hurting me emotionally to feel anything close to normal (again one of those pesky situations that i'm working on)

but then i'm a service maso too in that i will let Him hurt me when He sees fit regardless of whether i need it then or not, and will not ask for it if He doesn't seem to be willing to (but damn i need a scene in the worst way). it's just something with me. i won't ask for it. i tend not to initiate anything vanilla either, it's that weird mental masochism thing with me i'd rather just suffer (which yes i realize to some people would make me an untwue sub but then i'm not their's so i guess it doesn't really  matter, sorry it's been an...interesting semester).


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: masochism - 3/13/2008 8:47:41 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Masochists get pleasure from pain - pain itself, not necessarily the "submission to the pain", ie suffering for your dom.  For myself there are those moments when pain is just felt as pain and when things get intense you want to avod every blow, you dread each stroke, but something compels you to endure it, because you know it is going to transform into a state of total bliss where each stroke brings you deeper and deeper into subspace. 

i would also like to add that the energy flow between partners is a very important component to the experience.  If i am with a dom who is inflicting pain to make me endure something for him as a token of my submission it is a vastly different experience than with a dom who truly desires to inflict pain and see me suffer for his enjoyment.  As a masochist i relish the true sadist because his energy feeds me in a way the others can't and i feel that my pain feeds his lust not just his desire to have an obedient and submissve sub willing to endure for  him.  The problem is that sadists generally don't prefer masochists like me.  If i am with someone who hurts me because i like it and their goal is my satisfaction, while i appreciate it, the experience isn't as intense or satisfying. 

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