quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Here's a serious question for the Americans in the group....What about when this gets used by the American Indians?   I bet quite a few will want to change status.  I am all in favor of letting them decide.  I am relativly sure that most will choose to remain part of America, though many may want to take a status more like Samoa or Puerto Rico than they do now.  If they want to renounce thier citizenship, Declare Sovreignity, and make a final payment deal, thats ok too.  But I really doubt many would take it. 

Now the Mexican Sepratists, are going to be a whole differnt problem....

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Meat cleaver, So millions of Albanians moved to Kosovo illegally creating a majority, like Mexicans into California.  Thats interesting, I was not aware of that. 

Meat, what if if millions of Jews moved in and wanted to create thier own state?   You would of course also support that, right?  Same thing eh? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Meat cleaver, So millions of Albanians moved to Kosovo illegally creating a majority, like Mexicans into California.  Thats interesting, I was not aware of that. 

Meat, what if if millions of Jews moved in and wanted to create thier own state?   You would of course also support that, right?  Same thing eh? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Meat cleaver, So millions of Albanians moved to Kosovo illegally creating a majority, like Mexicans into California.  Thats interesting, I was not aware of that. 

Meat, what if if millions of Jews moved in and wanted to create thier own state?   You would of course also support that, right?  Same thing eh? 

There isn't millions of of people in Kosovo to start off with, there is 1.5 million I believe. At the beginning of the 19th century it was estimated that 40% of the population was Albanian, by the turn of the 20th century, 50% were Albanian. By the start of the civil war 75% were Albanian and now about 90% are Albanian. So you can see, the rise in the Albanian population has risen dramatically in proportion to the Serb population over the last couple of decades.

However, the point is, Kosovo is historically an intergral part of Serbia and according to any international law, treaty or charter you care to call upon, the independence of Kosovo is illegal and the powers that agree to Kosovo's independence obviously don't believe in the rule of law.

Tell me again what the US, Britain and the rest of NATO are fighting for in Iraq and Afghanistan? Please refresh my memory if I have got it wrong that the wars there are being fought for the rule of law and civilised values? I'm no lover of Serbia but the demonising of the Serbs by the west to fullfill what it sees as the right policies is exactly what the west has done to the Palestinians.

I'm not sure if you are talking about Israel when you mention millions of Jews wanting to create their own state but we have seen what happened in Trans-Jordania with the international community not caring about the rule of law and justice. There has been a conflict for the last 60 years.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Clinton also tried to tell us that this was "a Nato operation."
One problem with that, no "Nato" country was attacked.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The other difference with the idea of Mexican sepratists in the South west, is that they stole the land from the Natives.  the Navajo, Ute and others would be the ones with claim, not the Spanish imposed borders.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

We did the right thing,Popeye.

They also did it for security reasons because there was a danger that the war would spread to other countries.

NATO did it for selfish reasons.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Clinton also tried to tell us that this was "a Nato operation."
One problem with that, no "Nato" country was attacked.

Popeye,

It was a NATO operation b/c NATO and the Europeans said it was.

The reason they finally did something was because of the huge pits and mass graves full of dead civilians.

Ya know that saying that came after WWII,"never again"?It didn`t apply just to Jews.

The Serbs were truly evil and weren`t going to stop until every town was cleansed and every women was systematically raped in the rape camps.

Those motherfuckers were spurred on by the lack of action and would have completed a holocaust there had we not stopped them.

We did the right thing,Popeye.

They also did it for security reasons because there was a danger that the war would spread to other countries.

NATO did it for selfish reasons.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

We did the right thing,Popeye.

They also did it for security reasons because there was a danger that the war would spread to other countries.

NATO did it for selfish reasons.

Who is "WE" and how do you make out NATO did it for selfish reasons.

There had already been the conflict in Bosnia ect and the Washington Declaration of 1999 or there abouts cleared the way for Nato to act in cases of genocide ect.

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ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Clinton also tried to tell us that this was "a Nato operation."
One problem with that, no "Nato" country was attacked.

Popeye,

It was a NATO operation b/c NATO and the Europeans said it was.

The reason they finally did something was because of the huge pits and mass graves full of dead civilians.

Ya know that saying that came after WWII,"never again"?It didn`t apply just to Jews.

The Serbs were truly evil and weren`t going to stop until every town was cleansed and every women was systematically raped in the rape camps.

Those motherfuckers were spurred on by the lack of action and would have completed a holocaust there had we not stopped them.

We did the right thing,Popeye.

They also did it for security reasons because there was a danger that the war would spread to other countries.

NATO did it for selfish reasons.

Be careful where you are going for this....

Keep in mind that Saddam Hussein killed more civilians in genocide than Milosevic and the Serbs.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

But meatcleaver the majority of people in Isreal are Jews....

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The other difference with the idea of Mexican sepratists in the South west, is that they stole the land from the Natives.  the Navajo, Ute and others would be the ones with claim, not the Spanish imposed borders.

Have you ever been to Mexico? If you have you will notice that around 80% of Mexicans are indigenous to the continent of America and only about 20% (largely affluent Mexicans) are of European desent. I have noticed on my trips to California that most Mexicans there appear to be of indigenous American desent so they have more right to California than European Americans have.

However, this isn't the argument, the argument on which the Kosovo decision hinged, was that there is a majority population that wants independence, not whether the population has an historical right to the land. This means in theory, (if the US is consistent) a majority of Mexicans in California would have the right to declare independence!

My guess is that most of the people involved are probably ethnically the same people anyway, just cultural differences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Popeye, lots of people don't think like that, they are just Indians, it's usually an intregal part of thier world view.  Spain, Ukraine, same place, just Europeons you know...  Tibet, Cambodia, just Asians.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The other difference with the idea of Mexican sepratists in the South west, is that they stole the land from the Natives.  the Navajo, Ute and others would be the ones with claim, not the Spanish imposed borders.

Have you ever been to Mexico? If you have you will notice that around 80% of Mexicans are indigenous to the continent of America and only about 20% (largely affluent Mexicans) are of European desent. I have noticed on my trips to California that most Mexicans there appear to be of indigenous American desent so they have more right to California than European Americans have.

However, this isn't the argument, the argument on which the Kosovo decision hinged, was that there is a majority population that wants independence, not whether the population has an historical right to the land. This means in theory, (if the US is consistent) a majority of Mexicans in California would have the right to declare independence!

My guess is that most of the people involved are probably ethnically the same people anyway, just cultural differences.

Meat, yes, they're "indiginous" alright but they're descended from Mayan and Aztec Indians who were "indiginous" to Mexico and Central America.
The Navajos and Apaches are "indiginous" to the Southwest U.S. and were as we know very territorial.