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Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:26:11 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I received an email from someone and they had this essay printed in their journal. I thought it would make an excellent discussion about masochism.. I also found a book with many excerpts written by the same man in google books. I will provide links to both and chime in after a few responses.



quote:



http://health.yahoo.com/relationships-overview/an-inside-look-at-s-m/pt--Psychology_Today_articles_pto-19951101-000036.html
"The mainstream mild submissive will have one or two favorites," psychologist Roy E Baumeister, Ph.D., reports. For many people, submission goes no further than wanting to make love blindfolded once in a while. Have they thoroughly lost their minds? Probably not, contends Baumeister. At a symposium on "Bizarre Behavior: The Social Animal at the Outer Limits," psychologists learned what has previously eluded behavioral experts of all stripes: how to make sense of sadomasochism. Masochists, Baumeister believes, are taking a breather from the growing burden of selfhood.

 Relief From the Needy Self

Why would anyone want to escape awareness of the self? Because while a self is a handy, even a necessary, thing to have, it's also very needy. It requires constant upkeep and maintenance. You have to work hard just to maintain a positive self-image. Or "to be in control."


Edited to add that I could not put the google book link in because the link is too long and I do not know how to insert a shorter link for it, but here is the name of the book to look it up

Social Psychology and Human Sexuality: Essential Readings By Roy F. Baumeister


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/26/2007 9:34:54 PM >

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:37:07 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		There does seem to be a strong thread to seek escape through objectification.

I've gotten a lot of fun times by enabling it.

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:37:58 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		He makes the point that masochists have a strong sense of self, would you find that to be true?

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:41:43 PM   
astarri


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Status: offline 		I have heard that in a previous study as well though i dont think it sums up the entire motive of masochists (is it just me or is having to spell that word in itself masochistic) It would be convenient to be able to say A leads to B but i dont think that it can be summed up quite so easily. This is my opinion and it comes from someon that isnt very masochistic so i will be reading this thread with interest. Thanks juliaoceania  =)

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:42:17 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		They tend to be obsessive navel gazers. It must become tiring. Which is why they seek sadists,we help them to be distracted for a time.

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:45:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: astarri

I have heard that in a previous study as well though i dont think it sums up the entire motive of masochists (is it just me or is having to spell that word in itself masochistic) It would be convenient to be able to say A leads to B but i dont think that it can be summed up quite so easily. This is my opinion and it comes from someon that isnt very masochistic so i will be reading this thread with interest. Thanks juliaoceania  =)


You are welcome.. I am very interested in what people have to say about it


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:47:57 PM   
laurell3


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Status: offline 		Just judging from what I've seen on these boards, I don't think we can even agree on what a masochist is, let alone say that we (masochists) share any common traits.  I often read threads on masochism and find myself saying well that's not true about me, or that, or that.  I think I personally have a healthy sense of self most times.  I'm not sure I'm into bdsm overall to escape it, although there are limited times when I'm stressed when I know it will provide a good temporary escape.

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:48:11 PM   
astarri


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Status: offline 		i would think that the adrenaline rush that one would get could become very attractive in itself. I know people who bungee jump or mountain bike that return to it for the thrill and i would think that could be part of the allure though shutting off ones mind is a wonderful break at times. 

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:48:12 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

They tend to be obsessive navel gazers. It must become tiring. Which is why they seek sadists,we help them to be distracted for a time.


I tend to need distracting from other things rather than my navel... like responsibilities I have to other people in my life, being put in charge of things I never asked to be put in charge of, etc...

What I mean as in a strong sense of self, being able to handle someone "humiliating" me because I have a strong sense of self esteem. I bounce back rather quick from being constructively criticized. I tend to be able to go into a certain space and being called names doesn't hurt me, being "hurt" sends me further into that place where I just go blank, and I can do nothing but feel I suppose.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:51:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Just judging from what I've seen on these boards, I don't think we can even agree on what a masochist is, let alone say that we (masochists) share any common traits.  I often read threads on masochism and find myself saying well that's not true about me, or that, or that.  I think I personally have a healthy sense of self most times.  I'm not sure I'm into bdsm overall to escape it, although there are limited times when I'm stressed when I know it will provide a good temporary escape.


I agree with you in that it is hard to define what a masochist is and isn't... isn't it yummy we can dump all over this guy's work instead of dumping on each other?

Seriously think he comes up with some interesting ideas... but as far as high class people only being masochists, not from what i have read here. While I am middle class and well educated, I am not upper class for a fact


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 9:57:14 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

They tend to be obsessive navel gazers. It must become tiring. Which is why they seek sadists,we help them to be distracted for a time.


I tend to need distracting from other things rather than my navel... like responsibilities I have to other people in my life, being put in charge of things I never asked to be put in charge of, etc...

What I mean as in a strong sense of self, being able to handle someone "humiliating" me because I have a strong sense of self esteem. I bounce back rather quick from being constructively criticized. I tend to be able to go into a certain space and being called names doesn't hurt me, being "hurt" sends me further into that place where I just go blank, and I can do nothing but feel I suppose.


By navel gazing, I mean they tend to try and overanalyze themselves.

It's like watching a dog chase it's tail. They never catch it, just go in circles. But my tendency to snap them out of it with some intensity seems different than what you describe. It seems that you dissasociate instead.

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:00:45 PM   
MadRabbit


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Status: offline 		I tend to take psychology theories explaining "why people do X" with a huge grain of salt.

While interesting, thought provoking, and often containing insights into why a particular person I might meet one day might do something or why I might do something, they don't go really much farther than that with me.

It's about as accurate and as useful as a weather report. Much like the weather, just when you think you know what is going to happen or what the cause is or why something happened, it does something completely unexpected for some other off the wall reason.

To me, its an attempt to take non-linear human beings and place them in clear cut linear terms. Holding too tightly or placing too much stock in these black and white explanations of why people do things just ends up constricting any real understanding of an individual.

In the end, I just end up turning back to simplicity for my truth and understanding of the systems as a whole. "Masochists are people who like to be hurt" and "Water falling from the clouds means it's raining."

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:01:19 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

By navel gazing, I mean they tend to try and overanalyze themselves.


Oh I over think everything...

And being tied up, blindfolded, and whipped is the most delicious and all encompassing escapes that there is for me... just the sound of the thumps and his voice in my ear, and feeling the pain, it is one of the most "in the moment" experiences that there is....All there is when we go there is the two of us in that moment...

The only thing that half way competes is when I am flying while I run... and it is a cheap imitation


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:03:33 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

In the end, I just end up turning back to simplicity for my truth and understanding of the systems as a whole. "Masochists are people who like to be hurt" and "Water falling from the clouds means it's raining."


I absolutely agree...

Although there is a part of me that wants to know if there are things about my masochism that I share with others like me, it is like I can learn about myself by learning about others perhaps? Not that we are the same, but we might be alike... if that makes sense


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:12:16 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

In the end, I just end up turning back to simplicity for my truth and understanding of the systems as a whole. "Masochists are people who like to be hurt" and "Water falling from the clouds means it's raining."


I absolutely agree...

Although there is a part of me that wants to know if there are things about my masochism that I share with others like me, it is like I can learn about myself by learning about others perhaps? Not that we are the same, but we might be alike... if that makes sense



Sure, I do, but personally, awhile ago, I stopped having any interest in trying to piece it all together and figure out "The Big Answers" of BDSM.

I limit my knowledge and understanding to sharing with individuals and finding out why they do things as opposed to searching for the big answers of why everyone does things.

Kind of the same way I take the weather on a day by day basis of looking outside my window and seeing if it's raining/snowing/windy/clear.

Some people clearly have a burning desire to spend their lives searching for those "Big Answers" like the psychologist above and and meteorologists. I am glad they exist because their contributions certainly do benefit education as a whole and I am clearly not cut out for it.

If they do find those "Big Answers", I will love to read them, but unfortunately, I am not too optimistic about it.

_____________________________

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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:22:36 PM   
Kostly


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Status: offline 		Lets label everyone into nice little boxes, so that we can all know what everyone is....

Bullshit... I am a person, I choose labels that closely match me, but I dont fit nicely into little boxes.  I leave that for my subbie:)

Get to know people rather then label them.


< Message edited by Kostly -- 12/26/2007 10:23:49 PM >

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:28:13 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: astarri

i would think that the adrenaline rush that one would get could become very attractive in itself. I know people who bungee jump or mountain bike that return to it for the thrill and i would think that could be part of the allure though shutting off ones mind is a wonderful break at times. 


I think different people get different things from being a masochist. I have adrenaline rushes sometimes, but not other times...




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:28:17 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		I stopped looking for big answers too. Just too many variables with individuals to quantify with any effectiveness.

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:30:25 PM   
laurell3


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Status: offline 		I still think it's fascinating to hear others talk about what it means to them and sometimes if I'm struggling with how I feel about something trying on other's emotions and reactions to see if it's what the issue is can help me.  I'm weird like that though and I don't accept that what they say is necessarily true for me as much as it might help me identify what IS true for me, it that makes any sense.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/26/2007 10:31:11 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Study On Masochists - 12/26/2007 10:34:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It makes sense to me. I suppose I do not expect everyone to be like me with respect to how they feel about their masochism...I am only pleasantly surprised when they do. I know, like you, that it is fun to learn from people how they feel about it... 

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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