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Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:40:54 AM   
NewKnotTyer


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I was talking with my gf last night about our D/s relationship, and dominant vs. submissive traits in general.  She said that shes sees me as a domly type, with some submissive traits.  The one that got me is my enjoyment of being scratched, bitten, etc. as being a submissive trait.  I argued that taking pleasure from that isnt a submissive trait, but is just something that I enjoy.  What say you? Im very curious to see what others think!!
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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:42:45 AM   
ghitaPVH


Posts: 1363
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		Nope, that would be a masochistic trait. Some submissives are also masochists. not all. Some dominants are sadists, not all. Some dominants are also masochists. some submissives are sadists. some masochists are not either submissive or dominant. some sadists are not either dominant or submissive. Some people are both. some are all four. some pick and choose.

hope that helps.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:46:59 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewKnotTyer

I was talking with my gf last night about our D/s relationship, and dominant vs. submissive traits in general.  She said that shes sees me as a domly type, with some submissive traits.  The one that got me is my enjoyment of being scratched, bitten, etc. as being a submissive trait.  I argued that taking pleasure from that isnt a submissive trait, but is just something that I enjoy.  What say you? Im very curious to see what others think!!

My own thoughts...it's not a submissive trait

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:53:52 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewKnotTyer

I was talking with my gf last night about our D/s relationship, and dominant vs. submissive traits in general.  She said that shes sees me as a domly type, with some submissive traits.  The one that got me is my enjoyment of being scratched, bitten, etc. as being a submissive trait.  I argued that taking pleasure from that isnt a submissive trait, but is just something that I enjoy.  What say you? Im very curious to see what others think!!


Though it has become common to associate masochism with submission and sadism with dominance...t'aint necessarily so.  The character of either dominance or submission does not have to be linked to the "traditional" sexual quirk associated with it.  I am a dominant who enjoys sadism and yet, I had a lovely weekend with a submissive who enjoyed using her long nails on me to scratch...to the point of a bit of pain sometimes.  I loved it.  It did not make me submissive to her and she damn sure did not feel dominant towards me.  She saw it as providing a service to a dominant she cared for.  I also enjoy anal stimulation, a trait often seen by many as being a submissive trait.  It is not, though it can be associated with submission and, most frequently, is. 

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:54:13 AM   
Rockbound


Posts: 25
Joined: 10/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

Nope, that would be a masochistic trait. Some submissives are also masochists. not all. Some dominants are sadists, not all. Some dominants are also masochists. some submissives are sadists. some masochists are not either submissive or dominant. some sadists are not either dominant or submissive. Some people are both. some are all four. some pick and choose.

hope that helps.


Well said. It seems we keep getting confused around here about the difference between D/s and SM. As you said, taking pleasure from pain is a masochistic trait, not necessarily a dominant or submissive trait. Not all SM tops are doms and not all SM bottoms are submissive. This is why it would be helpful on this site to be able to choose top or bottom as your descriptor rather than dom or sub.


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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:54:14 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I'm certainly in no position to pass judgment over what you *are*, nor would I want to if I could (well, unless you had a paid subscription).  But I think it's worth noting that there's a meaningful difference between being a Dominant or submissive in a relationship dynamic, and being a Top or bottom for sensation play.  They are not one in the same, or interchangeable.
 
Having said that, divining one's relationship role based upon whether they are engaged in the "active" or "passive" role for sensation play isn't very accurate either.  Many Dominants assume (and enjoy) the "passive" role of receiving massages, oral sex, etc. and many submissives assume (and enjoy) the "active" role of giving them.
 
It would be similarly inaccurate to judge one's role in a relationship dynamic based upon what sensation play is enjoyed.  Although many of the activities enjoyed by bottoms are associated with submission in that they are more commonly found in submissives, it is not exclusively so.  There are Dominants that enjoy the physical sensations of bottoming without the inclusion of any submission (ie: it's the physical sensation alone absent any power exchange). 
 
And finally, the water becomes even murkier when you begin to assign meaning to activities that really lack any common association with either Top or bottom roles, much less Dominant or submissive roles.  Scratching (who doesn't enjoy a great back scratching?) and biting may fall into that category.
 
In summation, I don't think it's possible to make any legitimate determination about an individual's role in a relationship dynamic based solely upon selected pleasures derived from sensation play. 
 
John

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:56:57 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		Am hopping in to agree with the general statements of all so far:  No, it's a masochistic or bottoming trait, depending on the sensations and actions... Neither of those are the same as submission, they just sometimes co-exist in the same person.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:59:46 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		People eat spicy food and enjoy having tears running down their faces from the heat. Is she also going to insist that anyone who eats 5 alarn chili is submissive. And god forbid they get a deep tissue massage after pulling a muscle, they must be masochistic submissives!

Besides during sex we frequently don't interpret biting or scratching as painful sensations. We just interpret them as strong sensations.

She needs to learn the differences between masochist, sadist, submissive and dominant. You can be only one of those four or all of them or any other combination possible.

D/s is about control. S & M is about pain. Me? I'm a nonmasochistic submissive who enjoys control and bondage, not pain. I enjoy some sensation play but not if I interpret it as pain. Spanking for example if it's thuddy (never stingy) hits nerve receptors in the area that also activate the nerves in my genitals. I don't enjoy it if it's painful but I do enjoy the associated sexual stimulation.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 8:16:27 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		No, masochism and submission are not the same. 

I find it limiting to define behaviors as dominant or submissive.  It is the motivation behind the behaviors that will indicate whether it is a dominant, submissive or neither.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 8:22:05 AM   
OldBastardly1


Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

Nope, that would be a masochistic trait. Some submissives are also masochists. not all. Some dominants are sadists, not all. Some dominants are also masochists. some submissives are sadists. some masochists are not either submissive or dominant. some sadists are not either dominant or submissive. Some people are both. some are all four. some pick and choose.

hope that helps.


I loved this response.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 8:59:08 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		There's no such thing as a "dom" trait or a "sub" trait except perhaps desiring or not desiring authority within your personal relationship dynamics.  Otherwise it's all just stereotypes and falsehoods.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 10:25:13 AM   
intro2submissive


Posts: 35
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: DC
Status: offline 		i believe that sadists and masochists have no association to if one is a Dom/sub. i fit the stereo-type and i am a sub who is a masochist, it turns me on to serve and be at the feet of a Dom.
Don't allow stereo-type to define the way You perceive Yourself, if You are a Dom who enjoys masochism then chalk it up for what it is but don't start questioning Your affiliation to Domination.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 12:38:15 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with what everyone else said

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 1:19:21 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewKnotTyer

I was talking with my gf last night about our D/s relationship, and dominant vs. submissive traits in general.  She said that shes sees me as a domly type, with some submissive traits.  The one that got me is my enjoyment of being scratched, bitten, etc. as being a submissive trait.  I argued that taking pleasure from that isnt a submissive trait, but is just something that I enjoy.  What say you? Im very curious to see what others think!!


No.  It's a masochistic trait.  Not all s-types are masochists, and some d-types are.  It has nothing to do with d/s.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 1:28:05 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		No. Sadism and masochism have nothing to do with the relationship role. I've seen too many sadistic slaves and too many masochistic Masters to believe that to be true. Here's the school of thought I subscribe to:

Top/bottom = physical roles
Dom/sub = mental roles
Master/slave = spiritual roles

They can exist in all 6 combinations, although some combinations are more common than others.

Master Fire


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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 3:40:30 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NewKnotTyer

I was talking with my gf last night about our D/s relationship, and dominant vs. submissive traits in general. She said that shes sees me as a domly type, with some submissive traits. The one that got me is my enjoyment of being scratched, bitten, etc. as being a submissive trait. I argued that taking pleasure from that isnt a submissive trait, but is just something that I enjoy. What say you? Im very curious to see what others think!!



No, I'd say it was a slightly masochistic streak, very slight, in fact, one which I'm betting most human beings have.

I'm sure most of us could honestly say that some things that should be painful can be pleasant depending on the circumstances. For instance when I have an itch I love to have that scratched, sometimes hard but in other contexts scratching me is libel to either get a glare or a smack in return from me.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 5:04:03 PM   
Switchblayde


Posts: 40
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline 		Not necessarily a submissive trait at all. I am loaned out by my Master to a  whip master, who is a pain slut.
He uses bullwhips on me but is also a pain slut himself, able to take canes and sjamboks without being the least bit submissive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NewKnotTyer

I was talking with my gf last night about our D/s relationship, and dominant vs. submissive traits in general.  She said that shes sees me as a domly type, with some submissive traits.  The one that got me is my enjoyment of being scratched, bitten, etc. as being a submissive trait.  I argued that taking pleasure from that isnt a submissive trait, but is just something that I enjoy.  What say you? Im very curious to see what others think!!


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Jamais vaincu..........

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:38:04 PM   
taintedgypsy


Posts: 228
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		"bite harder you bitch" hmm enjoys pain but definately not submissive lol.
"is that the best you can do?" hmmm prob more bratty than dominant lol.
"Oh Oh Ohhhh yes yes please please Sir harder .... thankyou Sir" now that would be submissive lol.

enjoying pain is not evidence of submission or Dominance, however its expression of this pleasure and the way it is enjoyed could be lol.

A Dom who likes being scratched and bitten ...yum where do I sign up I promise it would not diminish his Domliness in my eyes lol.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 7:43:49 PM   
BondageSlaveMN


Posts: 80
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

No. Sadism and masochism have nothing to do with the relationship role. I've seen too many sadistic slaves and too many masochistic Masters to believe that to be true. Here's the school of thought I subscribe to:

Top/bottom = physical roles
Dom/sub = mental roles
Master/slave = spiritual roles

They can exist in all 6 combinations, although some combinations are more common than others.

Master Fire



I think a better way to phrase it is this:

Sadism and masochism are not necessary traits of either a Dom or a sub. There does, however, exist a disproportionate coupling between sadism and Doms and masochism and subs.

Though I must add that I really can't opine on the subject because all I really know is the popular portrayal of the BDSM lifestyle which embraces these stereotypical couplings. For all I know, more Doms may be masochists and more subs may be sadists in reality.

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RE: Is pleasure from pain a submissive trait? - 12/15/2007 8:42:24 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Like the others, I don't believe masochism is a distinctly submissive trait.  I'm pretty sure my Man has a hint of masochism, he really loves it when I bite and scratch.  He says what he enjoys about it is that it is such an intense expression of the passion he brings out in me... (I think he likes the pain too though, in context.)  And I loooooove that I don't have to hold anything back with him that way, that he enjoys it, rather than considering it un-submissive.  God do I love it when he orders me "Show me the hungry slut you are!"




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