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Fear - 11/12/2007 2:40:56 PM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline 		Firstly let me thank the Master who's comments on a different thread of mine prompted this chain of thought, and I hope he is not offended that I carried it further here, for the input of others :)

For Masters.  How valuable a tool is fear in the application of BDSM.  When you do use fear as a tool, are you preying on the sub/slaves personal fears, or do you use their primal instinctual fears to gain a reaction?  As a tool do you find it builds trust?

For Submissives.  How do you feel when your Top uses fear in a scene?  Which do you find more potent, the use of a specific, personal fear or a triggering of your primal fears?

Please allow me to explain why this intruiges me.  I have few fears, and even less hangups.  Very recently Master introduced strangulation (he is very knowledgeable and trained so whilst I appreciate the concerned posts that no doubt will follow, I have no fear).  And that is my point entirely.... he asked me how I felt and it was like taking a whiff of nitrous oxide.  Giddy, elevating, then a sensation of sinking, but no fear.  At no point was I afraid, in fact it was almost.... elegant.  There are some scenes where a I guess a primal fear kicks in during breath play, I feel my body reacting with objection, but I don't fear for my safety.  I think its more a matter of struggling against the intrusion and blockage to my airways, a reaction to the force, rather than the fear... my thoughts at that time are to try and relax.  Kind of like anal sex, you tense in anticipation of the pain, your body has a kneejerk reaction so you try and consciously relax.  I am not afraid because I trust him.

So the dynamic itself is curious to me.  Use fear to build trust, but with trust would there be fear?
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 3:30:26 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Fear is an aphrodisiac for me in certain circumstances.  There is always a low level of fear running underneath my skin when I know we are going to play.  He is a sadist and I know he is going to hurt me and until he does it I have no idea how. 

When he plays on primal fears I will sometimes get intensely aroused.  When he plays on personal fears there is a feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction that I was able to overcome the fear and do what he wanted.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MidnightMaiden)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 3:48:29 PM   
ItzKat


Posts: 86
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		Fear is a spice that makes the whole scene tastier.  

_____________________________

~Kat

That which does not kill us... can really mess up our hair!

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 4:25:23 PM   
MRandme


Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline 		Hmmm.... personally, i would not like to be afraid during a scene. i'm the sort who cannot watch scary movies or even terribly suspenseful ones. 

g


_____________________________

And thus i conclude with a wish you go well,
Sweet be your dreams, may your happiness swell,
I'll leave you here, for my journey begins
i've gone to be with Him again...

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 4:43:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		When it comes to scenes and playing, fear is absolutely fantabulous.

Any other place- no way.  Never works in the long term.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_500881/mpage_1/key_fear/tm.htm#501690
fear?



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 4:47:27 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		As a Switch , i have used Fear and had it used on me aswell ,its what gets more endorphines and the adrinals  going .To be brought to or bring another to tears , give them the experiance  the high is something special .More so the importance of the aftercare bringing and being brought back to earth  and know how to aswell as be cared for depending on role is also extrodinary .
Thanks for posting this topic as it makes me relive a kidnapping experiance  and long for it once again -smiles

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 4:57:55 PM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline 		I read posts like this and I wonder am I missing out???  
Am I missing out because I don't feel afraid. 
Am I delusional in thinking I am not afraid?
The only way I would feel fear in a kidnap scene would be if Master had orchestrated it with the use of people unknown to me, and I believed it to be an actual kidnapping.
Is roleplaying fear the same as real fear?

(in reply to azropedntied)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:02:29 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		Primal fear, definitely.  I love it love it love it!  The thought of his hand around my throat, or violently raping me, or knowing he could slap me and split my lip, or having me pressed against the wall blindfolded and not sure of what he is going to do just makes me melt inside.

Playing on my personal fears on the other hand does NOT get a good reaction.  My biggest personal fear is being abandoned.  That wouldn't be something that I would want to play around at...it would totally give me a panic attack.  The difference is that primal fear preys on my instincts and gives me an adrenalin rush, while personal fears prey on my emotions...and that could have messy consequences.

(in reply to azropedntied)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:08:15 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		It depends on how the kidnapping is  done , mine was a pick up with someone i knew and then overtaken by two of her Domme  pals i did not know .One min your getting picked up at the airport and the next your kidnapped , safe then your questioning  what shall happen next .An interogation can also be fear driven to a very high level i may add .You do not fear cuz you hold trust that you are safe and when in role play you can still be safe but ride the fear coaster .in my experiances i never had "fake fear " .

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:09:23 PM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Primal fear, definitely.  I love it love it love it!  The thought of his hand around my throat, or violently raping me, or knowing he could slap me and split my lip, or having me pressed against the wall blindfolded and not sure of what he is going to do just makes me melt inside.



None of these things make me afraid... they are very erotic (mmmm remembering the events that caused my fat lip).  What's wrong with me?  And a blindfold would only remove me further from the situation... why be afraid of that which I cannot see.  *sigh* 

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:28:20 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		It sounds to me like you don't have the sense of fear because you have a very high trust level that you won't be in any real danger. I tend to not enjoy playing around with fear. Some trepidation, nerves and maybe a sense of wondering what's going to happen, but real fear? I don't like it.


(in reply to MidnightMaiden)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:39:06 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		Maiden , now your just teasin  and i wish i had that challenge wink ,I say Allow your Master to read this and discuss . i bet he may too be called to the challenge .What if you never heard your Master and was taken? remove the safe feelings ?What is it you fear  example -like a rollercoaster ,then go to a theme park  blindfolded  and take some rides .I dont thing there is a thing wrong with you , you hold the person or people intrusted in your care with respect and high regard , thats a great thing .

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:45:31 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

So the dynamic itself is curious to me.  Use fear to build trust, but with trust would there be fear?


-=Fear Dynamics=-
Often, I do not want to extensively teach a submissive about something to allay their fears.  In fact, that would be completely counter productive to my sadism and role as Master in a TPE.  Allow me to explain, facing fear proves trust.  Trust inspires love, surrender etc.  If you have trust, then you should feel confident that you will not meet grievous harm and negotiating limits in advance is a moot point. 

No, I am not a good Dom.  I am a good Master.  I do not possess the patience a Dom uses when it comes to tolerating a submissive's negotiations, limitations or boundaries.  When a slave faces and overcomes fear it proves trust.  Trust inspires love.  Love allows surrender.  Sweet surrender is what makes TPE work for me.


-=Fear as a Relationship Tool=-
Going out on a Metaphoric Limb
I have literally had these conversations at times in my life:

M – If you trusted me, you wouldn’t be afraid to go out on the limb.
S – I do trust you, that is why I am out on the limb, even though I am afraid.
M – But if you trusted me, you wouldn’t be afraid. 
 
… as you can imagine, that person was not a well suited match for me in a TPE and our relationship barely lasted 2 years. 

M – If you trust me, you wouldn’t be afraid to go out on the limb.
S – I do trust you, that is why I am out here on this limb. 
M – Good, then go farther out on the limb.
S - How far shall I go?
M – You will continue until the limb breaks. 
S – Will it hurt when I fall?
M – No, because I will catch you.
S – Thank you, that makes me feel safe.  May I ask if there is a lesson I am to learn from breaking this limb?
M – Yes, there is a lesson… you are learning to trust me more than the limb. 
 
… as you may have guessed, we were together as Master & slave for more than 10 years and she would be in my life today if she had not passed away (no, she didn’t die falling out of a tree). 
 
-=Fear as a Scene Tool=-
Fear is good.  Fear equals suffering and it heightens the experience for both sadists, masochists, Masters and slaves.  Fear is one of my tools and I use it just as surely as I would a whip, chain or cage.  In fact, fear is more powerful than physical pain in some circumstances.  Without fear, you might as well take away all my BDSM gear because I often mix fear with much of what I do to heighten the intensity of a scene.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to MidnightMaiden)
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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:53:41 PM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you Azropedntied (that's quite the mouthful!).  Master reads my posts daily, and we talk every day about different topics and posts, especially threads that I create.  He considers me quite the challenge!  Aside from being mortified that I am going to let rip an almighty fart after vigorous anal, there's not a lot that bothers me 

If he took me without allowing me to see it was him, then yes I would be afraid, terribly.  He is my safety net, without that then primal fear and human preservation instincts would definitely kick in... I don't have a total absence of fear (I think there are psychological cases of people like this and that is not me although I have a diminished sense of fear naturally I think).  In that scenario though, I would expect that the feelings during and the after effects would be the same as those for a real rape, and there would be quite some reconciliation to contend with after he revealed himself, and this I think would only shatter trust, not build it *shrug* I don't know

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 5:54:17 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		 
Fear gets my endorphins running. Whether it be a personal one or not. It is a fabulous aphrodisiac for me.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 6:04:47 PM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

… as you may have guessed, we were together as Master & slave for more than 10 years and she would be in my life today if she had not passed away (no, she didn’t die falling out of a tree).


Hehe I am still giggling about that, no disrespect intended, the poignancy and your humour touched me :)

As I am sure you guessed, it was your comments in one of my previous posts that inspired this thread, thank you for giving me so much to think about.

quote:

Without fear, you might as well take away all my BDSM gear because I often mix fear with much of what I do to heighten the intensity of a scene.


I would like to respectfully ask ... in the context of the relationship you had with the slave who went onto the bough without fear, how did you frighten her?  Or was she frightened and just overcame it with trust?  Does there come a level of trust at which you no longer need to or wish to use fear?




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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 6:06:46 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		Fear is the mind killer  Fear is your ticket into the unknown

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 6:10:41 PM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

Fear is the mind killer  Fear is your ticket into the unknown


Why fear the unknown?  There could be something fabulous there!  Or did I miss the point?

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 6:11:29 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know if fear is the right word for me.  Not knowing what's going to happen next is thrilling.  Having him have that evil look in his eye that says it's going to be something I won't like is also.  Am I ever truly afraid of him in a scene?  No.  I trust him or I wouldn't be there.

I was put in a situation once where bound I had to literally fall to the uncarpeted floor.  I was blindfolded and didn't know where he was.  I have to say I did think about it, but it was more like hmmm this could end badly than being afraid, but I trusted he was there and paying attention and fell and he caught me. 

I wouldn't accept someone invoking my personal fears outside of a scene and think it would be damaging to the relationship.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Fear - 11/12/2007 6:12:07 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		Smiles at Maiden i envy your connection and reltionship . BTW azroped is better on the fingers if you wish 
Maiden this would only be an example mind you , your Master maybe  more devious in the planning  lol . Say your taken  by three people hooded and masked you can not ID them nor do you recognise the voices , everything else that takes place is for your fear experiance .In the end Master is unmasked but all the while roleplay or not i think your fear shall be there . And  yes your 100% correct about the aftercare in this exchange , to toss you out in the middle of nowhere post experiance to fend for yourself  would be  bad . challenge is a fun good thing most times glad i could give your post  food for thought .

< Message edited by azropedntied -- 11/12/2007 6:13:14 PM >

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