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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/30/2007 1:41:57 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH

It means that the third-worlders are encroaching upon us



They're from Eastern Europe.....Poles, Lithuianians, Latvians etc. From where I'm standing, they're working hard to earn a living, so hats off to them.

Actually, the people who come here have little option but to learn English by virtue of this being a small country; we're not big enough for a group to go about its business without interacting with the majority.

I'm completely at the opposite end of the scale.....opportunity generates hard work, and that's what happens when people come here.

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/30/2007 1:46:26 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Again: Why import more low-income/illiterate people? Doesn't the First World have enough of those?
And atop that, a bonus of more cultural/racial drama, and the side-effects of a growing population (Overpopulation is NOT a good thing: If 5% unemployment rate stays steady, but the population goes up, then there are just MORE people unemployed...More welfare, more "entitlements", added to a system that can barely handle what they've already got!)

IMPORTANT NOTE: The 5% was an arbitrary figure, not to be taken as some statistical myth to be debunked. If it's lower, great, if it's higher, then that's even worse, since you'll have an ever-growing number of people competing for the same jobs...leading to friction, paranoia, accusations of racism/cronyism/nepotism...

< Message edited by EPGAH -- 10/30/2007 1:50:22 PM >

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/30/2007 2:06:57 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		OK - I'm already regretting bringing this subject up. But, for the sake of clarity -

This isnt the fault of immigration or immigrants and a discussion of their presence and activity isnt the intent of this thread; the subject has been done to death elsewhere, and a repetition isnt interesting.

What I'm interested in is why we are paying millions of natives (by which I mean people of all origins - many of them highly skilled and experienced) to sit at home doing nothing, when by our own admission we need millions of people to do jobs, of which migrants are performing over a million of them as of now.

How does it make any sense to say that we need immigrants to do jobs here in order to contribute taxes from their salary to support us, when millions of our own are soaking up that tax revenue in the form of social welfare payments when they could be doing the work that the immigrants are doing?

And where do we think we are going to be, if the jobs we create are of such low wage levels that only immigrants can do them? Since we base our income tax on income, the tax yield from such jobs is necessarily lower than if the jobs were well paid. So, we might need double the number of jobs by comparison, to provide the same tax revenues. And this is not to mention to provide the available spending power to keep the retail industry - in connection with which or in which these new jobs seem to be created - healthy enough to provide the jobs in the first place.

Its increasingly my view, that the so called "new economy" which is much vaunted by politicians, is nothing more than bunkum. We are reduced to providing services and retail to one another - in my view, these services and indeed retail are purely peripheral activities which depend on the wealth generated by the manufacture of goods - which is now taking place far away. In the absence of the wealth being generated here, what we are doing with this new economy is essentially going broke slowly, and paying a hefty price to do so as a nation - whilst a few acquire lots of money in the process. The ultimate joke being, that all this money they acquire will be pretty much worthless once we are broke.

E 


 



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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/30/2007 2:24:15 PM   
EPGAH


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Status: offline 		Then the solutions would seem to be:

1.) Price Limits--Quick and effective, but that would "ruin the free economy"! However, the idea behind First Worlders demanding more money isn't SOLELY from inflated self-worth, it's from inflation: If the car (or house, or medicines, or theater-size TV) one wants costs a certain amount of money, the First World workers would demand more money to get it faster. HOWEVER, the more people that demand more money, the price isn't just eaten, it's passed along to the consumer (United Auto Workers recent strike made the news, and more than one pundit "predicted" them slicing their own throats) The joke being, that the consumer is the worker--at least until the worker is replaced by some outsider who doesn't yet have the desire for the accoutrements of First World life, and is happy with just having enough to send back to their home countries...Which skews the economy even more...etc.

2.) "Tariff" on Non-Native Labor--This will be even more unpopular than price-limits, since it has "racist" undertones, and affluent First Worlders seem to forget that a nation should be loyal to its own people first, not outsiders. The immigrants, though, drive the minimum wage BELOW what is paid by "entitlement" programs--welfare--so the natives sometimes end up being the welfare-leeches that "everybody hates"! HOWEVER, foreign laborers would be less likely to work for less if they had the same costs on their lives as the First Worlders do. (Separate houses for separate families being the main concern there, but checking to make sure that multiple families weren't squatting in the same building would require WAY too much bureaucracy, so the "costs" must be added artificially--a tax!) Alternately, this tax could be placed on "remittances", to keep the money IN the First World's economy, but the effect would be the same: In order to send the same amount to the outside country they still call "home", the foreigns would HAVE to demand higher wages, making them suddenly unpalatable!

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/30/2007 3:36:18 PM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

And where do we think we are going to be, if the jobs we create are of such low wage levels that only immigrants can do them?
E 




Hmm, well I thought you were concerned about all the Polish plumbers and others, some of whom can earn £40kpa? That's not a pittance, its nearly a change of tax code.

Of course, there are also many, many service type jobs, paid at rates that are scandalously low and increasingly casualised.

But what are these jobs that governments "create"? You have to recognise that governments can't control that stuff. The multinationals care nothing for national boundaries, so different gov's have to compete to secure inward investment by tax shelters, curbing wage rises etc, basically making the country attractive to them. They can't just demand that any given business builds a factory and creates manufacturing jobs.

Taiwan and S Korea can build a ship or a tractor or whatever waaaay cheaper than we can. What do you want Gordon Brown to do?

Luckily, London's geographical position means we can trade with Asia at the end of their day and N America at the start of theirs - a key factor in the continuing importance of the LSE. Slate them if you will, we desperately need their billions. And the knock-on effect across the economy is huge. Paris can keep Disneyland.

Epgah suggested a tax on foreign workers. (And also, hilariously, a war???)
Is taxation really a good tool for this? Forcing low paid workers into demanding wage increases will be just as inflationary because of the effect it will have on the factory gate price of goods and you know what will happen when you need services yourself and they are suddenly much more expensive? Production relocated to the Far East meaning job losses, falling tax revenue and inflationary prices for services.

There are tough choices for everyone in this and reality demands that the privilege of the past has to be spread differently. So maybe ethical business is in all our best interests - values, along with profits? Integrity, before customary privilege anyone?

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/30/2007 3:58:54 PM   
EPGAH


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Status: offline 		My idea of taxing remittances and getting them to demand the same as the natives was to "help" the multinationals realize that natives are cheaper....and easier to understand, less likely to commit crimes, etc.
Let's say, though, that the multinationals DO outsource. Then they'd still need to be checked for quality (And apparently, for toxins? Ask Mattel for details!) This would, by all rational measurements, increase the price also, so they'd actually have to toe the line, and stop hiring foreigns who are voting with their money--in favor of their OLD country, not the country they're draining money from. But even outsourcing has a lesser deleterious effect on the local economies than importing a new underclass: The underclass will still need to be fed, housed, clothed, medicated (Although some skip this part, resulting in outbreaks...), etc. If you leave the underclass in their OWN countries, their OWN countries have to worry about all that! Also, more people in a given area means more DEMAND, which "might" drive up the prices! (And I mean "might" in an ironic sense, as in the sun "might" rise tomorrow morning!)
Another idea would be to tax multinationals extra if they favor outsiders over your country's own people in their employment structure--make them pay for the upkeep of all the natives they're displacing! And always remember, you can break the power of the multinational by simply not doing business with them, and turning to one of their enemies--I mean competitors--instead...Sort of a "Most Favored Corporation" status?
Of course, price-caps or old-economy tariffs on goods are best, but then you're "ruining the 'Free Economy'(TM)"--although actually, all you're ruining is their ability to cheat...Levelling the playing-field, as it were...and isn't that the original idea of a "government": the coercive power of a society for the good of the whole?
As to the war bit, what DO you call it when foreigns enter en-masse, making demands on your infrastructure, sucking the money out of your economy, and "forcing" your government to adopt measures beneficial to the newcomers, but harmful to the preexisting population? In a microbial world, you'd call it a disease, but on a human-size scale, it's just an invasion. The fact that they're taking your jobs, not your lives (yet) is obviously due to their magnanimity and generosity, NOT any fear that their numbers are still too low to openly attack you and take through force of arms what they can just as easily steal...right?

< Message edited by EPGAH -- 10/30/2007 4:03:40 PM >

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 3:02:55 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Many come here and live as cheaply as possible and send home as much cash as they can. That hardly benefits the UK economy as its cash leaving the Country, yes tax is paid but on small amount that wont be much, if any.  All that happens is employers benefit by having cheap labour.


This monetary transfer does add up to large amounts and does impose a very minor strain on the currency value.BUT
The banks make millions  so at least they are happy.

Welfare and Immigration/Asylum
So obviously in need of reform but,at least in public, the powers that be wont admit it !!
In the meantime blue collar wage rates dive, teachers are distracted in catering to the needs of  non English speakers, made a serious problem by the sheer numbers at some schools. Pressure for more social expendititure in general and housing in particular.
Point all this out and you are a RACIST.

The only people who benefit are those who work say in financial departments of local councils deciding how the "tax loot" should be carved up and in general having a rather nice time thank you.very much.
Talk about fiddling while Rome burns.

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 4:02:24 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Lets be clear about our manufacturing. I work in international transport, so the UK manufacturing base is something I take an interest in, with regard to our exports and imports.

A few statistics
Full trailer from Manchester to Brussels = £350-00/ Full trailer from Brussels to Manchester = £850-00
Full container from Manchster to China = $500-00/ Full container from China to Manchester = $3000-00
The trailer prices are current. The container prices were the last time I checked.

The reason for the huge imbalance in charges, for the same trips, are because we as a nation import far more than we export and this has an effect on shipping prices. One can understand why the Chinese situation exists - they are far cheaper than us in manufacturing after all - but then we have the situation with Belgium (and indeed with the rest of Europe) - a country which is very comparable to the UK in all but one aspect - the general standard of living is higher than it is in the UK.

Now, how is it exactly, that places like Belgium, France, Germany etc - can produce and sell more goods than we do? How is it that they can manufacture competitively, and we cannot? And yes, before MC chimes in on that one - I realise that Thatcher and the pre Thatcher union situation were responsible for destroying our manufacturing base - but this is now many years later, and we still apparently cannot compete? This is absolute rubbish - of course we can compete; we work longer hours for more working days for lower wages than our neighbours, we have definitely got enough finance to get things moving - but we dont, and we're told we cant. About the only manufacturing that takes place here nowadays is because foreign firms decide to invest here, because we speak English - and any native manufacturing - the innovative Dyson company for instance, is shipped abroad. How in heck does this make any sense at all?

Any sense, when we have millions sitting at home, doing nothing, in receipt of benefits? Any sense, when we have millions of migrants wanting to come here who will work for minimum wage or a little over it?

If we can get manufacturing back in this country - that is, if there is the will to do so, because we certainly have the conditions - then we might just save ourselves from disaster. Its all well and good operating service and retail, but service can be provided from almost anywhere (how long before Chinese banks take over from us, for example?) and retail depends on people having money in their pockets to spend, and money which is worth something at that.

E


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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 4:14:27 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Part of the problem at least stems back 25 years, construction firms done two things to cut overheads. Firstly they talked workers into going self employed, secondly they stopped using direct labour. Both of these moves resulted in a lack of people able to pay for apprentice training. Manufacturing also died off as firms moved to buy cheaper materials from overseas, i recall at one point it was cheaper to buy steel in Europe and ship it hear than pay the prices that were being charged locally.
Maybe Thatchers policies didnt help but manufacturing was in decline long before that. The fact fuel is so dear hardly helps the transport industry. Cars and electrical good flooded the UK in the 70s and without government support or outside investment the Uk manufacturers were unable to compete with Japan and Germany.

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 5:34:36 AM   
joanus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Yes joanus, you did seem to miss one point. But all is well. Once you realize that this site is international you know there are people from everwhere here. I think it's cool as hell.


He probably can't help it... judging by his postings, he is one of those self-centered and ill-informed Americans who has no clue as to what the rest of the world is like.


If you could read more that just one or two posts Termyn8or you'd see that I was simply commenting on how the problem was caused in my area of the world, and I suggest you get some reading glasses or take a 2nd grade coruse on how to read.

Also if you too could read Alumbrado you'd know as anyone else who posted on this thread that I'm about as America as a plate of sushi. As a kid my grandfather dragged me all over the world and I have a better grip on how the world is than most college proffesors.

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 5:48:21 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		ooooh! Handbags at dawn!

Seriously though Joanus - this is about the UK - yes we have similar issues, but the environment here is very different than in the US, since much of the migration here is quite legal and above board, coming from new EU states rather than from outside our collective territory. If the migrants coming here to take up work were from the Ukraine or Russia (outside the EU) then we would be almost exactly alike.

The additional difference is, that whilst comparable states to us within the EU (France, Germany etc) are doing well, we are not (in my measure). The situation translated into US terms would be one in which for instance Texas, Lousiana and Colorado were doing well with a balanced economy, but for some reason Oklahoma was not and had not - when all conditions were equitable across them. And Oklahoma had allowed vast immigration and naturalisation into the state whilst its neighbours had restricted it.

Still, as long as we can avoid the "Goddam immigrants" thing, its interesting to see how our US friends see it all.

E

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 6:01:57 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Now, how is it exactly, that places like Belgium, France, Germany etc - can produce and sell more goods than we do? How is it that they can manufacture competitively, and we cannot? And yes, before MC chimes in on that one - I realise that Thatcher and the pre Thatcher union situation were responsible for destroying our manufacturing base - but this is now many years later, and we still apparently cannot compete? This is absolute rubbish - of course we can compete; we work longer hours for more working days for lower wages than our neighbours, we have definitely got enough finance to get things moving - but we dont, and we're told we cant. About the only manufacturing that takes place here nowadays is because foreign firms decide to invest here, because we speak English - and any native manufacturing - the innovative Dyson company for instance, is shipped abroad. How in heck does this make any sense at all?



The simple answer is management and investment. Anyone who thinks British management is good, should before the cement sets around their head, work in other leading European countries. One of the biggest differences between Britain and Europe is the lack of cooperation in Britain and the insistance by British management that they know everything and the workforce should do as they are told. Britain loves American management practices but forgets that Britain isn't America, Britain is a completely different culture and has different values and labour laws. Setting targets doesn't work because people are subversive and reach their targets without doing the work. People require ownership of what they do, in Britain that doesn't happen, in leading European economies it does.

However, another crucial fact is investment. Investment in other leading European countries is far higher than investment in Britain. This is the main reason for the demise of British industry. Morris of Morris motors used to boast how little he invested in his factories. The British motorbike industry was the same, this was illustrated by Queens University in Belfast who used to do research for both the British industry and Yamaha. Yamaha would give go ahead for projects within 24 hours, the British industry required six months to think about it and another six months to make a decision. You could go through the whole of British industry like this. I don't know if anyone saw the BBC documentary series about ten years ago 'All Our Working Lives' British management was appalling and still is as far as I can tell.

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 6:27:39 AM   
RealityLicks


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Status: offline 		LE, an interesting post. However I still have a few queries...
What would you say about the levels of unemployment in Belgium, France, Germany and Spain? In fact across the eurozone unemployment hovers at around 10%. A staggering figure.

Also, you can't seriously compare Belgium with Britain in economic terms - they just aren't in our league with the exception of certain industries. (In addition to which, aren't they looking a little more likely to split along the Walloun/Flemish line, Mr Investor?). In skills and productivity terms, Belgian car workers are some of the best in the world but they won't work for what we pay our car workers. As a result, many of them haven't a job at all.

Really interesting figures on the cost of importing and exporting goods but can you clarify, are these the figures payable from the UK? If so, what are the same costs from a Chinese or European perspective? I ask mainly out of simple curiosity because I'm not convinced that the cost of transporting goods is necessarily that important in relation to other components of cost to the consumer. Especially goods sourced in the Far East. What type of TV do you have? Chances are you paid a premium for a Japanese model although there are cheaper British ones out there on sale.

Britain's prolonged period of economic growth is the envy of Europe. We have a bigger economy than France, despite their greater numbers and proximity to market. That isn't spin, successive leaders in Europe trumpet Blair as some sort of miracle worker and sell themselves to their electorates as the man to do for them what Blair has done for us. (I can hear your teeth gnashing!)  In everything but foreign policy, the UK is immensely admired in Europe.

What's strange is that so few people here realise it. Why do you think that immigrants choose us over France, Italy, Holland and even Germany? Because foreign companies do. But not in manufacturing, because modern economies make much more in all other sectors than in that - the information revolution is no different to the industrial revolution but that's where to compete.

Oh and Chinese bankers are doing business while the half the world is asleep, ours speak to everybody during one trading day.

I know it's far from perfect here but standing still or going backwards aren't real options, we have to face up to the way the world looks today.


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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 6:41:49 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		The underlying problem with regard to the UK and manufacture IMO is the class system.
Engineering/technology bad. Art/Literature/History etc etc etc good.

There is simply no appreciation by most Brit. privately educated types as to the skill involved in manufacture. When we had a car industry is was quite common to hear it described as "metal bashing"
Jeremy Clarkson's show, the Brits will know it,is a perfect example of useless superfluous public schoolboys at play.
Absolutley hopeless!
Now we are paying  the price !

A large proportion of immigrants obtain seasonal work in farms and hotels, then during off season will have to live off welfare. What those who are not supposed to work live off I dread to think.

Its nogood boosting the virtues of the working class in this situation because they do say the routine assembly work in a car factory. Or help robots to do it.
Creative engineers and technicians are what we desperately need, and we aint got enough. and we wont get any from Romania and Bulgaria either.
It makes me weep.

quote:


Why do you think that immigrants choose us over France, Italy, Holland and even Germany ?

W E L F A R E

Growth Smowth... house price inflation contributes to growth

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/31/2007 6:48:13 AM >

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 7:02:02 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Also if you too could read Alumbrado you'd know as anyone else who posted on this thread that I'm about as America as a plate of sushi. As a kid my grandfather dragged me all over the world and I have a better grip on how the world is than most college proffesors.


Reading and believing are two different things.

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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 7:03:52 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

LE, an interesting post. However I still have a few queries...
What would you say about the levels of unemployment in Belgium, France, Germany and Spain? In fact across the eurozone unemployment hovers at around 10%. A staggering figure.

That 10% unemployment is real unemployment unlike thew British figures where collating the information has been continually changed to make the figures more favourable. 1 in 6 of the British potential workforce are on invalidity benefit so only work part time or not at all but are never in the unemployment figures. Margerat Thatcher changed the way unemployment figures were collected 21 times to make them more favourable. My father was given invalidity after the miners strike even though he was only 55 and could run a marathon, invalidity was dished out like confetti to miners and steelworkers so they never appeared in the unemployment figures, which was the entire point. Also in most of the countries you mention you have to earn a certain amount of money before you are counted employed, in Britain you only have to work 16 hours for monkey nuts to be counted as employed.

Also, you can't seriously compare Belgium with Britain in economic terms - they just aren't in our league with the exception of certain industries. (In addition to which, aren't they looking a little more likely to split along the Walloun/Flemish line, Mr Investor?). In skills and productivity terms, Belgian car workers are some of the best in the world but they won't work for what we pay our car workers. As a result, many of them haven't a job at all.

I've worked in Belgium, I would rather work there than in Britain.

Britain's prolonged period of economic growth is the envy of Europe. We have a bigger economy than France, despite their greater numbers and proximity to market. That isn't spin, successive leaders in Europe trumpet Blair as some sort of miracle worker and sell themselves to their electorates as the man to do for them what Blair has done for us. (I can hear your teeth gnashing!)  In everything but foreign policy, the UK is immensely admired in Europe.

Britain might have a slighty bigger economy with the same population but the French on the whole have a better life style than the Brits and a better health and education system.

What's strange is that so few people here realise it. Why do you think that immigrants choose us over France, Italy, Holland and even Germany? Because foreign companies do. But not in manufacturing, because modern economies make much more in all other sectors than in that - the information revolution is no different to the industrial revolution but that's where to compete.

First things first. All rthe countries you mention apart from Italy I believe, have higher rates of immigration than Britain and even Italy (I believe) is on par with Britain. As for illegal immigration, the British government has no control over its borders or social welfare system. In the other countries you mention you require an insurance card or an ID card to get social welfare, in Britain you need no papers at all.




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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 7:07:18 AM   
justheather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Do try and keep up. The link is about the UK and not America. The main reason immigrants get these jobs is simple, although the pay is low, it is still much higher than there country of origin. Many come here and live as cheaply as possible and send home as much cash as they can. That hardly benefits the UK economy as its cash leaving the Country, yes tax is paid but on small amount that wont be much, if any.  All that happens is employers benefit by having cheap labour.



Unfortunatly not only th UK has be having this problem it seems to be world wide and I was simply stating that here in the whores vigina of the world it problem is caused by lazy rednecks.


Perhaps you might learn to speak/write in English before you post complaining about migrants and jobs and rednecks and such.
Just sayin.

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And the table perfectly level
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RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 8:50:09 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi RL

MC answered most your points for me (thanks MC!) I believe.

On the cost of transport question - the same prices apply everywhere. Its an international business and there's no need whatever for a UK company to book transport from a UK haulier or forwarder; the UK is awash with European trucks against whom we cant compete with British trucks for international movements - due in no small part to government policy to tax us to the hilt and make us the bad guys in the war on carbon emissions. Interestingly, a foreign truck pumps out as much emissions as a British truck, but there we go.

Just the same, a German company can book service from any nation too. The effect is that as a UK forwarder, my company competes with hundreds of thousands of other transport service providers all across Europe, and given that we are all running with the same fuel, on the same roads, with the same vehicles under the same driving hours restrictions - competition is based on price. If company A wants £10-00 more, then company B will get the job. And its important to realise that the exporter of the goods doesnt always pay the freight to get the goods delivered - which means that we have to be at the same price levels as everyone else all over Europe to stand any chance of winning business.

The effect in terms of trade to and from the UK is reflective of the fact that we export so little compared to what we import. In simple terms, for every load leaving the UK, there are two available vehicles - whilst for every two loads coming this way, there is only one vehicle. We therefore find that competition in the marketplace reduces the price one needs to pay from the UK, and increases the price to the UK.

The impact of transport price on retail goods can be calculated of course - but its no easy task. There will be the initial move from factory to warehouse, the cost of warehousing, onward delivery to a distribution centre and then final delivery to point of use or sale. All other things being equal however, the transport cost to send something this way is at least double the cost of sending something out, giving UK manufacturers a competitive advantage, however small in terms of units moved, and a disadvantage to UK importers.

E




_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 10/31/2007 9:11:31 AM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		What? You mean that foreigns bypass/cheat on the First World's environmental regulations, making them cheaper artificially? This is totally new information!
(Tongue in cheek, I had mentioned this very "advantage" in a post on another thread--which is why tariffs or environmental taxes would benefit First World countries more than any other!)

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants - 11/1/2007 2:51:47 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		LE, actually, he was extremely selective in which of my points he answered. Some answers were good granted, some were just "well, I prefer it in Belgium" which is more an opinion in my book.

I'm not saying that everything is perfect here.  What I am saying is two-fold:

1, we must be doing something right if we have the world's fifth largest economy.

2. our future will not rely on the manufacture and sale of widgets.

The view from your perspective is necessarily partial. What we export most lucratively now doesn't always leave the country in trucks and containers. It's expertise. It's ideas. It's speculative investment. All the Chinese companies that export here have British partners, I'll stake money.

Why do 350,000+ young French people live in the UK, with 15,000 of their compatriots joining them every year? These are mostly graduates in their 20's and 30's. What do they see that you don't? (and that's an old figure - its almost certainly gone up).

Thing is, no-one is really in control. They only wish they were. But to blame anyone (gov'ts, bosses) is to accord them more status than they own.

(in reply to EPGAH)
Profile   Post #: 40
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