more than half of new jobs go to migrants

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LadyEllen -> more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:03:09 PM)
I had to check the website to make sure I heard this right on tonight's news http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7069779.stm Apparently, more than half of new jobs created in the UK since 1997 - thats over ten years - have gone to migrants. No - we're not going down the road of "how awful all these immigrants are" with this one. Theyre doing what we're all doing (or ought to be) - improving their lives, and no one can blame them for that. The real issue is that to me, this indicates the nature of the new jobs; low skilled, low paid and totally uncompetitive with social welfare benefits. This isnt surprising, in that we've spent the last twenty five years going down the drain here - losing the manufacturing base which provided reasonable incomes to many, and replacing it with "financial services" which provide enormous incomes to a few, with the many excluded for want of skills (for which, read being the "wrong" sorts of people). I knew we were in trouble, when like an aristocratic heir who wastes his fortune and has to sell his lands to meet his creditors, we sold off our rail network, utilities and whatever else we could to keep things going. Then, when that was all gone we manipulated the housing market to prop the country up on paper equity that could finance a credit boom. Would the last person to leave, please switch off the lights and pay the foreign owners of the electric supply. E

joanus -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:22:32 PM)
Thats mostly becuase most american workers are lazy, and the immagrant workers aren't.

Alumbrado -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:24:34 PM)
How many American workers have you evaluated in England?[8\|]

Politesub53 -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:28:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joanus Thats mostly becuase most american workers are lazy, and the immagrant workers aren't. Do try and keep up. The link is about the UK and not America. The main reason immigrants get these jobs is simple, although the pay is low, it is still much higher than there country of origin. Many come here and live as cheaply as possible and send home as much cash as they can. That hardly benefits the UK economy as its cash leaving the Country, yes tax is paid but on small amount that wont be much, if any. All that happens is employers benefit by having cheap labour.

pahunkboy -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:29:01 PM)
Either group doesnt want to do roof work.

joanus -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:32:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Do try and keep up. The link is about the UK and not America. The main reason immigrants get these jobs is simple, although the pay is low, it is still much higher than there country of origin. Many come here and live as cheaply as possible and send home as much cash as they can. That hardly benefits the UK economy as its cash leaving the Country, yes tax is paid but on small amount that wont be much, if any. All that happens is employers benefit by having cheap labour. Unfortunatly not only th UK has be having this problem it seems to be world wide and I was simply stating that here in the whores vigina of the world it problem is caused by lazy rednecks.

stef -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:33:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joanus Thats mostly becuase most american workers are lazy, and the immagrant workers aren't. You did notice that Ellen was referring to the UK, right. The phrase "Apparently, more than half of new jobs created in the UK* since 1997 - thats over ten years - have gone to migrants.*" in her post should have been a tip. ~stef

NorthernGent -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:42:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Many come here and live as cheaply as possible and send home as much cash as they can. Politesub, as your point of view is underpinned by the many comment, how many are the many in proportion terms? And, no, the lone article tracing the 1,000 Hungarians living in a wardrobe, each earning 1 rupee a month and sending 0.9 of a rupee back to Hungary (the article in yesterday's Daily Mail), is not akin to stats or reason.

Alumbrado -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:47:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: joanus Thats mostly becuase most american workers are lazy, and the immagrant workers aren't. You did notice that Ellen was referring to the UK, right. The phrase "Apparently, more than half of new jobs created in the UK* since 1997 - thats over ten years - have gone to migrants.*" in her post should have been a tip. ~stef You don't understand... it is still the fault of lazy US workers....[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]

meatcleaver -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:48:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Many come here and live as cheaply as possible and send home as much cash as they can. Politesub, as your point of view is underpinned by the many comment, how many are the many in proportion terms? And, no, the lone article tracing the 1,000 Hungarians living in a wardrobe, each earning 1 rupee a month and sending 0.9 of a rupee back to Hungary (the article in yesterday's Daily Mail), is not akin to stats or reason. According to Newsnight (last night I think) and commenting on a government report, most jobs taken by immigrants are not low paid jobs but skilled jobs because there is an historic shortage of skilled people in the UK. Thanks to the Labour government doing away with many apprenticeships back in the seventies and then made worse by the tories closing down industries wholesale.

Termyn8or -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:55:44 PM)
Yes joanus, you did seem to miss one point. But all is well. Once you realize that this site is international you know there are people from everwhere here. I think it's cool as hell. But then there is the point that England and the US have very similar problems. That is because the same kind of rats are running both countries. None of them cares one iota about their country, their constituents, or the people in general. Outsource everything as long as my buddy Frank makes more money. Close all the factories, as long as my buddy Fred makes more money. They simply do not care. Their ambition to office is not patriotic or benevolent, it is purely selfish. And those buddies Frank and Fred get taken care of because they help you get that office. We have been in deep shit for decades, both in the US and the UK, but it is all coming to a head soon. The economies of both have been so dessimated by the "leaders" that something has to give. We (the US) are going to become insolvent in the next few years unless drastic measures are taken. And guess who pays the price. I'll give you a hint - it is never them. Take it from there. It is always us who pay. Even if a company is pressed to pay fines for some impropriety, that money ultimately comes out of our pockets. It will either be in the form of higher prices for their products, or lower dividends paid to the shareholders. You see there are two phases to getting rich. First of all you need a game going where you can collect money, but more importantly the game must be setup so you pay out the least amount of money. And when you do have to pay out money, it never comes from you, you take it either from your customers or shareholders. That's the real game, and they play it very well. T

Alumbrado -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:57:34 PM)
quote: Yes joanus, you did seem to miss one point. But all is well. Once you realize that this site is international you know there are people from everwhere here. I think it's cool as hell. He probably can't help it... judging by his postings, he is one of those self-centered and ill-informed Americans who has no clue as to what the rest of the world is like.[:D]

stef -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:58:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You don't understand... it is still the fault of lazy US workers....[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif] Dammit! I hate when that happens. ~stef

Politesub53 -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 12:59:46 PM)
I agree with You meatclever but they are often not paid the going union rates, especially in construction. NG i just said many, if you want an exact figure you best do some research. I am pretty that not every article i read about people working here for a few years, and sending money home, is a figment of the Daily Mail... I am suprised you even read such drivel [8D]

EPGAH -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 1:04:25 PM)
Aww, come on, they're ONLY stealing a little at a time out of the economies of the First World nations! And it's clearly mitigated by the "urgent need" of the third-worlders! (As stated in another, semi-related thread: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1378083 ) This "needed" money, though, simply perpetuates--and sometimes even increases--third-world corruption, driving further invasions and more theft! To put it in a more easily-digested sound-bite, "Stop the remittances; stop the illegals" OR "Save the worker, save the (First) World"

Alumbrado -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 1:12:30 PM)
Geez...another non-reader. This is about those who migrate, not 'illegals'

NorthernGent -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 1:16:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH To put it in a more easily-digested sound-bite......"Save the worker, save the (First) World" Thanks for that...reading isn't my forte, so I need sound-bites. But, what does it actually mean? assuming it is not completely meaningless.

stef -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 1:16:55 PM)
God, what a brain trust we're putting together here. What's next? Is defiantbadgirl going to join in and start whining about "outsourcing?" ~stef

EPGAH -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 1:24:20 PM)
It means that the third-worlders are encroaching upon us, spewing endlessly about how their "need" overwhelms our laws, and how they're "only doing it to make their lives better"(TM), but they don't know/care that it makes the First World areas worse. Check the areas settled by illegals...Just don't go alone, and certainly don't go at night, they're every bit as violent as the third-world wastelands these invaders "escaped" from...Broken bottles, violent crime, lack of functional English (Of course, I speak only about illegals in AMERICA, I'm sure the UK has some magic way to force THEIR illegals to learn English and behave, right?) Our way of life is being eroded, but more quietly, since these very thieves have probably figured out that the First World would kick their asses back to the Stone Age, if they tried any overt military action, but killing First Worlders who wander into their new "territory" will just be dismissed as normal crimes, and/or part of their "culture"...Why do we tolerate erosion of our sovereignty by criminals, simply because their "culture" is different than ours? The idea of immigration USED to be "I want the benefits you have, so I'll ask for permission to come in, learn and abide by your laws and ways (at least in public), and even learn your language, becoming something your country can be proud of!" Now: "I want the benefits you have, so I'll just barge in, regardless of boundaries/treaties, take relentlessly from you, ignore your laws and ways, and force you to adopt OUR ways and language, becoming something of a cancer on your country--but you can't fight us, because that would be 'racist'!" If they TRULY aspire to "a better life" here, why do they settle at/settle for the bottom socio-economic rung? Of course, part of it is that they refuse to dump their "culture" and assimilate, which SEVERELY limits career-opportunities, but again, why is that? If their "culture" is better, they could stay "home" and make something out of themselves and their countries without having to dip a siphon into the First World. If on the other hand, their "culture" is the reason for their widespread poverty/overcrowding/disease, wouldn't the same "greedy genes"/self-preservative instincts that "forced" them to invade the First World also "force" them to assimilate?

RealityLicks -> RE: more than half of new jobs go to migrants (10/30/2007 1:34:50 PM)
Don't forget that the UK population is ageing. That means that many are dependent on the taxes of these newcomers to pay for their pensions and health care. Also, it may well be that manufacturing in this country was doomed long ago. The iconic German car has frequently been built in Eastern Europe. Our sad little Mini Metros and Maxi Princesses never stood an earthly. However, far from being entirely reliant on financial services there is much hope in the media. They might be crap but Who wants to be a millionaire, big brother, pop idol etc earn a fortune and then there's the web. If you're twelve years old and living in Britain... go to bed this is an adult site! But seriously (sort of) No, you probably can't be the next MD of ICI but you can be the next Simon Cowell. You speak the language of Shakespeare, and there is an hungry media beast waiting to be fed ...content!

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