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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

a social experiment. sad that there is a need for this. seems extreem tho.

Allowing adicts to use clean needles and use good quality drugs enables them to stay healthy (relatively) and hold down a job and be a functioning, self financing member of society. This sort of thing was pioneered by a London doctor in the seventies and became known as the London project. It was very successful but Maggie Thatcher in her wisdom closed it down. A Swiss doctor on reading how succeddful it was introduced it into Switzerland where it has been going for around 20 years now I believe. Here in Amsterdam addicts are given clean needles from mobile health centres and prostitutes can have check ups. It is self financing by preventing so many people falling ill and having to be fainanced on the heathcare services.

It's not really an experiment anymore, such projects have proved themselves.

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ORIGINAL: Zensee

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

That only has the possiblity of working if an addict uses a clean needle every single time and then disposes of it properly afterwards.  What are the odds of that happening?  Do you think an addict is going to go to a clinic every time he or she needs a fix?

Why bother having a fire department when some buildings are going to burn down anyway?

What do you know yourself, about the odds of addicts using safe sites versus public toilets? You are just speculating.

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ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

....and why, pray tell, is this a joke? Or is HIV/AIDS not worth preventing by any means possible?

(edited to add it was a fast reply and not aimed at Pahunk)

It appears the government has given up in helping these people kick the habit so instead they are taking on the philosophy that if you can't stop them, might as well make it "safe" for them.

And this isn't pot we are talking about. We are talking about some very hardcore narcotics here. These drugs are not safe under any situation. These people need help, not encouragement.

Your government gave up on helping people when it started its war on drugs and began warehousing addicts in penitentiaries. The punitive approach doesn't work, as the foray into alcohol prohibition should have taught the USA.

Safe injection sites are places addicts can go, without fear of prosecution to A) reduce the harm of their addiction through access to unadulterated drugs and clean needles - B) have access to counselling, health care, detox and treatment.

Trouble is, there are not enough detox and treatment beds available... lots of prison cells are available, of course.


Z.

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We have become a nation where giving up on yourself is trendy and acceptable.

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ORIGINAL: orfunboi

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

a social experiment. sad that there is a need for this. seems extreem tho.

Allowing adicts to use clean needles and use good quality drugs enables them to stay healthy (relatively) and hold down a job and be a functioning, self financing member of society. This sort of thing was pioneered by a London doctor in the seventies and became known as the London project. It was very successful but Maggie Thatcher in her wisdom closed it down. A Swiss doctor on reading how succeddful it was introduced it into Switzerland where it has been going for around 20 years now I believe. Here in Amsterdam addicts are given clean needles from mobile health centres and prostitutes can have check ups. It is self financing by preventing so many people falling ill and having to be fainanced on the heathcare services.

It's not really an experiment anymore, such projects have proved themselves.

Then maybe we should send all the addicts to Switzerland...

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ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
The opening of this facility will only lower the standards of life worth living. This will only encourge people to live there life as a drug addict and to do nothing more with there life. So how would we be really helping them? The resorces needed to pull this off can be better used somewheres else for the greater good of society. When you truely can't help someone, it's best to let them go where they'll die off. Keeping them around and feeding there addiction will only bring us all down limmiting the resources of the non drug users. 

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I  would much rather have such facilities, than have to worry about my UMs coming across used needles all over.

I would much rather have the substances provided FOC than have to run the auntlet of addicts outside the shop down the road, begging and worse.

I would much rather have addicts as healthy as possible, than disease ridden, turning tricks for drug money

And I know very well from personal experience that addiction does not necessarily lead to a downward spiral, and know equally well that addiction in itself does not render someone useless. People talk about drug education - well, lets start perhaps with what is true and not scare stories which anyone can and will find to be unfounded, and consequently then disregard whatever else theyve been told.

It is one factor only that causes the real danger and damage, and thats the criminalisation of some drugs, when others more readily abused are not so criminalised.

E

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ORIGINAL: ElectraGlide

It sounds too good on paper. Just supply the addict with their fix so they can go to work. Has anybody ever worked with a heroin or meth addict, not for long I bet, they cant hold a dam job. They are always dope sick and stumble around like a big baby, they make you feel sick by looking at them. The long term hard core drug users end up mentally retarded. I wished the sober people that supported hard core drug use had these drug users on their door step being a thorn in their side, to see what it is all about. If you are a hard core drug user and support this kind of crap, I can see why, you are a part of the mess and do not know it.

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ORIGINAL: slaveluci

As someone who once lived life as a strung-out junkie, this post kind of creeps me out.  As I look at my life today, somehow I just know that I would never have been better off dead as you seem to suggest.  "Keeping me around" is something I thank God for everyday.  Just giving up on people and letting them go die off is a pretty sorry solution to any problem.  No, society never did (nor does it now) owe me anything.  But if a program like this can help even a few people out and allow them to go on to become (or return to being) a productive citizen, I think it's well worth it.  But, actually, being an addict does not necessarily make one a non-productive citizen.  I worked full-time much of the time I was most addicted.  No one had a clue.  Saying programs like these only encourage people to be addicts is, to me, about the same as saying sex education only encourages kids to have sex.  Really....is it the education encouraging the sex and the program encouraging the addiction or are those things simply ways to attempt to have some control over a possibly very negative situation?  Food for thought.........luci

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ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
I'm all for tough love. Intervention with an altimatum is what it comes down to. "It's the Drugs or me and your loved ones." I refuse to support an addiction that is killing them and draining my resources. I never wanted to let anyone in my life go but they made there choices. I can only go on with my own life. Realize that I never "just" gave up. I really meant it when I said "Don't come back untill you are clean." How is a program such as this going to help anyone realize they need to quit using drugs? A facility such as this is not going to solve addiction problems. No addict will go to rehab as long as there is a safe place to get a fix. It will only cause lives to stay destroyed. If that's how the person is going to continue living there life, then they're already dead to me

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ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

I'm all for tough love. Intervention with an altimatum is what it comes down to. "It's the Drugs or me and your loved ones." I refuse to support an addiction that is killing them and draining my resources. I never wanted to let anyone in my life go but they made there choices. I can only go on with my own life. Realize that I never "just" gave up. I really meant it when I said "Don't come back untill you are clean." How is a program such as this going to help anyone realize they need to quit using drugs? A facility such as this is not going to solve addiction problems. No addict will go to rehab as long as there is a safe place to get a fix. It will only cause lives to stay destroyed. If that's how the person is going to continue living there life, then they're already dead to me.