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Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 11:53:32 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

RANT:

Wowie. I had an opportunity to spend an hour or so with a local dominant. During the day he said quite casually, that he felt he was dominant because he only "fit" with submissives who needed him to push their limits. And that a maso, bottom, sub who enjoyed the harder aspects don't attract him because they lacked that fear of their limits being pushed.

Hmm..

Not a problem here, as I will not play with married men but it did make me think of the way people percieve me. I run a group. Even though I am basically quiet, I make myself become the leader for my rapidly growing group. As a result people tend to view me as dominant. Masochistic yes, but simply a bottom rather than submissive.

Labels are funny things. I see myself as a person who strives to get beyond my natural desire to hide, in order to make things easier for others by creating an environment where things happen, seemingly without effort. Few people recognise the work it takes to run a successful list and if you are good at it, that is the way it should remain.

So I was thinking about labels. Master, Dominant, Top, Slave, Submissive, Bottom, Switch. Online it is very easy to tack a label on onesself and "become", without regard to what is going on in your life. People without direction. People who use this so they are not alone in life. People that think it will bring in easy sex. People who want things now, instant love, instant connection, instant respect.. but ..

What happens when the Master who is still living in his mothers home brings in the slave who has no job or education? What happens when people are so desperate to find love they jump without looking? Labels are funny things. Not everyone who says they are (insert label here), have a grip on what it takes to bring another person into their fantasy.

I think I will strip off the labels and just be.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

Post #: 1

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 12:03:13 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

If that's what he said, I don't see where he's pigeonholing anyone. He sounds pretty self aware to me. He knows what he's looking for.

I wouldn't be compatible with someone like that because I don't want my limits pushed at all. But I do wonder as to how long his relationships have lasted. Eventually he'll have tried pushing all the sub's limits, some she'll say no fucking way and some she'll be okay with dropping. And then what, when he's out of things to push? Does he end the relationship and go look for someone new?

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 2

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 12:07:10 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

hehehe...you know those tags that some how end up below a teddy bears fur...thats what i thought about when i saw the subject and OP...

but anyway...just because you live in reality doesn't mean you can expect everyone to live in reality...its part of reality...i hate it when reality mind fucks me...and doesn't even give me a reach around....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 3

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 12:14:16 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Dang it.. did you know there is no way to remove some sort of label from your profile? LOL Apparently I must be placed in some catagory, dom, sub, switch, ect. There is no choice of "chat with me, then we can decide"
Phhtt. LOL Labels.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 4

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 12:16:53 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Yes, he has been doing this a while he knows exactly what works for him. That wasn't my rant. It is labels in general. So many posts I see here are on people complaining their partner isn't dom, sub, master, enough.. And when you read it you can tell DUH.. what ever made you believe they were?
Jumping in without looking. I just don't get it.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 5

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 12:19:27 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

Labels are a form of communicating so people do not have to write paragraphs or talk for minutes to a person to explain what they mean. For example it is easier to say I am a slave then to write what basically is my definition of what a slave is. Almost all the time most people are going to basically know where I am coming from so therefore it streamlines communication and quite simply without labels we would be lost in our communication.

Labels are not the problem it is the people who use labels in the context of judgments, promoting false beliefs and my definition is the only one are. I think it is always wise for people to remember this as it really is a big distinction.

No one likes to be labeled for the most part but they are a necessary part of communication and I am willing to bet in any conversation that last in minutes labels get used for all sorts of things.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 6

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 12:49:00 PM

Wyrd

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Columbia, SC
Status: offline

Today must be label day, this topic came up between some friend an myself so I wrote a blog entry on the subject from my point of view.

http://www.twistofwyrd.com/bdsm/whats-in-a-word/

Definitely have to agree with toservez, labels allow us to communicate things in advance, I am a dominant means if you are looking for a submissive, it's not me, no conversation needed.

_____________________________

My Site

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 7

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:02:09 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

RANT:

Wowie. I had an opportunity to spend an hour or so with a local dominant. During the day he said quite casually, that he felt he was dominant because he only "fit" with submissives who needed him to push their limits. And that a maso, bottom, sub who enjoyed the harder aspects don't attract him because they lacked that fear of their limits being pushed.

Hmm..

Not a problem here, as I will not play with married men but it did make me think of the way people percieve me. I run a group. Even though I am basically quiet, I make myself become the leader for my rapidly growing group. As a result people tend to view me as dominant. Masochistic yes, but simply a bottom rather than submissive.

Labels are funny things. I see myself as a person who strives to get beyond my natural desire to hide, in order to make things easier for others by creating an environment where things happen, seemingly without effort. Few people recognise the work it takes to run a successful list and if you are good at it, that is the way it should remain.

So I was thinking about labels. Master, Dominant, Top, Slave, Submissive, Bottom, Switch. Online it is very easy to tack a label on onesself and "become", without regard to what is going on in your life. People without direction. People who use this so they are not alone in life. People that think it will bring in easy sex. People who want things now, instant love, instant connection, instant respect.. but ..

What happens when the Master who is still living in his mothers home brings in the slave who has no job or education? What happens when people are so desperate to find love they jump without looking? Labels are funny things. Not everyone who says they are (insert label here), have a grip on what it takes to bring another person into their fantasy.

I think I will strip off the labels and just be.
Kyst

I'll repeat.

It's not what you say-it's what you do.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 8

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:11:42 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

Not a problem here, as I will not play with married men but it did make me think of the way people percieve me. I run a group. Even though I am basically quiet, I make myself become the leader for my rapidly growing group. As a result people tend to view me as dominant. Masochistic yes, but simply a bottom rather than submissive.

Two views of yourself are relevant: Yours, and that of your significant other(s). Everyone else needs to remember they don't have an opinion.

_____________________________

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 9

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:22:55 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I don't think the situations lies with labels but has everything to do with incompatability of people.
It's like the whole 'wannabe' label. Another label, but one plastered around when people aren't compatable. One persons wannabe is somebody else someone - I am a mother, but I am not one for you - only to you. The 'for' and the 'to' make the difference, not the label itself.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 10

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:24:20 PM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

It's interesting when a person runs a group, teaches, supervises others, or exhibits any leadership abilities it's thought of as more Dominant than submissive. But those things require a great deal of self-denial, sacrifice and service. Sounds more submissive than Dominant to me. One of the single most interesting aspects of BDSM for me is the way paradox works. In order for me to feel the most liberated is when i am owned, the freedom of bondage, the joy in suffering. How does one affix a lable on this? It's like the "gift" of submission.... its a present to me a gift to me when i am allowed to serve.

Thank you for provoking thought. A service to us all.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 11

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:30:07 PM

litleone8620

Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Labels are a form of communicating so people do not have to write paragraphs or talk for minutes to a person to explain what they mean. For example it is easier to say I am a slave then to write what basically is my definition of what a slave is. Almost all the time most people are going to basically know where I am coming from so therefore it streamlines communication and quite simply without labels we would be lost in our communication.

This might be true. But one person's definition of slave might not be yours.

Sure, it's easy to just say 'I'm a slave' and leave it at that. But the person with whom you are communicating might take that as their definition, with no other communiaction beyond that, and you'll end up in a situation that you didn't want to be in in the first place.

Labels are a generalization of who you think you are. It lets people know what your orientation is. But IMO, no matter what label you put on yourself, there should always be extra communication explaining what you mean when you say 'I'm a slave'.

_____________________________

He who laughs last didn't get the joke

We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 12

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:33:35 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Dang it.. did you know there is no way to remove some sort of label from your profile? LOL Apparently I must be placed in some catagory, dom, sub, switch, ect. There is no choice of "chat with me, then we can decide"
Phhtt. LOL Labels.

Ah, com'n. You don't have to feel confined by labels. And they're not absolutes. They're just approximate names to help people understand the general thing you're going for. Not part of your identity.

This is one of the reasons I think it's so silly for people to get up in arms about, "You think I'm a sub?! I'm a slave!!! OMGWTFBBQ UR TRYING 2 CONTROL ME!!! DON'T TELL ME WHO I AM!" Because, after all, assigning a label is just a way you think of a type of person, but not saying that they have to be that.

So, hey, if you're generally a sub, great. If you have some dominant aspects, sure, whatever. It's however you want to live and someone referring to you as a "sub" isn't trying to fit you into some kind of little box.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 13

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:34:42 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
quote:

Not a problem here, as I will not play with married men but it did make me think of the way people percieve me. I run a group. Even though I am basically quiet, I make myself become the leader for my rapidly growing group. As a result people tend to view me as dominant. Masochistic yes, but simply a bottom rather than submissive.

Two views of yourself are relevant: Yours, and that of your significant other(s). Everyone else needs to remember they don't have an opinion.

You'd make the claim that no one else has a right to an opinion?

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 14

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:35:46 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
quote:

Not a problem here, as I will not play with married men but it did make me think of the way people percieve me. I run a group. Even though I am basically quiet, I make myself become the leader for my rapidly growing group. As a result people tend to view me as dominant. Masochistic yes, but simply a bottom rather than submissive.

Two views of yourself are relevant: Yours, and that of your significant other(s). Everyone else needs to remember they don't have an opinion.

You'd make the claim that no one else has a right to an opinion?

About me? In a heartbeat.

_____________________________

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 15

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:37:24 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Exactly! And sometimes it may not even represent who you are, but who you want someone to believe you are. I see lots of master types that havent mastered their own lives yet, let alone someone elses. Putting a label online means nothing to me. It takes communication, time, and sense to see that someone may say they are this that or the other thing, but it is your own responsibility to find out if their idea matches your own.
It is not only a matter of reading the label. You have to open the can and make sure someone didn't make a mistake.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

Labels are a generalization of who you think you are. It lets people know what your orientation is. But IMO, no matter what label you put on yourself, there should always be extra communication explaining what you mean when you say 'I'm a slave'.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 16

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:41:14 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

This might be true. But one person's definition of slave might not be yours. Sure, it's easy to just say 'I'm a slave' and leave it at that. But the person with whom you are communicating might take that as their definition, with no other communiaction beyond that, and you'll end up in a situation that you didn't want to be in in the first place. Labels are a generalization of who you think you are. It lets people know what your orientation is. But IMO, no matter what label you put on yourself, there should always be extra communication explaining what you mean when you say 'I'm a slave'.

I agree 100% but my post was in reference to people that speak out that labels are bad or they do not or try not to use them. The fact is for casual conversation at some local community event or on a message board calling myself a slave is all that is needed but of course just a very early step though if I was starting up a conversation with someone I might have a relationship with that would need significant elaboration.

The problem is not in the labels themselves but the people using them and for people making blanket comments that labels are bad or they will not use them as just completley unrealistic.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 17

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:41:15 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
You'd make the claim that no one else has a right to an opinion?

About me? In a heartbeat.

Isn't it a contradiction to have an opinion about someone else that this someone else can't have an opinion about the one with the first opinion?

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 18

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:50:55 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

Isn't it a contradiction to have an opinion about someone else that this someone else can't have an opinion about the one with the first opinion?

That's not an opinion. That's a fundamental statement of belief. I am my own person. I neither need nor desire the approval of society at large. I do desire the validation and love of those close to me, but until I allow you close enough to me to be able to know me, what you think of me is irrelevant.

_____________________________

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 19

RE: Stick a label on me.. I am done! - 9/19/2007 1:54:48 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Belief or opinion matters not - it doesn't work at all and makes absolutely no sense in a consensual environment - unless you accept that any relationship, BDSM or not, involves non consent somewhere along the line. Completely unworkable.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 20

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