RE: How Long?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: How Long?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: How Long?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:38:16 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

Supervised visits could be included in a restraining order. It's basically to keep him away from her so he can't be harassing her. A provision could be added that he could see their child if both she and a neutral party were present.

(in reply to Stephann)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:42:39 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

FyreAngel,

When you get hit with a right cross out of nowhere in life, you learn to duck. Instead of bringing up the past- be aware of it and prepare yourself for the person's predictable behavior.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:47:37 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

those are things that are taboo that you can not forgive no matter how much time passes. i know that feeling been there done that. I hope you find peace in your journey. can people change i know someone that did. seven years i did not see that person then one day. I got a message from them. they truely had changed it was cool but they were not the same person not at all

< Message edited by LATEXBABY64 -- 9/9/2007 9:50:07 PM >

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:52:09 PM

iammachine

Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

One of the things i learned about history - if you dont study and learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it. How does that fit into "change"?

There's a difference between learning from your past, and living in it. If you are having the same kinds of problems (behaviours) now that you were then, then yes, it's a valid point of consideration. If whatever behaviours caused problems then are no longer present - leave the past where it is. If you are unable to move past your, um, past problems - why are you still there?

_____________________________

I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 10:30:42 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

This seems like a horribly dysfunctional situation and I am sorry for the UM to have parents so involved in their own ridiculousness that they can't work past it to have a mature situation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to iammachine)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 1:15:17 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

LA: I second that - it really just is so depressing when people have to involve their UMs in this kind of crap. I know that sounds harsh - but I worked at a UM shelter for many years as a volunteer (plus my sister is a divorce attorney), and if people think this kind of thing cannot leave severe scars on a UM, they are dead wrong.

My advice: Stop fighting with him. Just refuse to engage. Slam the door, hang up the phone. Here is one way to do that:

1. Get a Legal Aid attorney if you cannot afford your own, and take him to court (or have this arrangement mediated by that, or another attorney) to state exactly when he will be able to see this UM - and you better make sure it is something you can live with, and will follow through with yourself - for the sake of your UM. If he cannot stick with what he has agreed to do in the decree, it'simple: He does not see his UM. His attorney and yours will work this out together. if you've already "done that" - then it is obviously time to do it again. Maybe the second time, it will actually work.

2. Then you have your lawyer stipulate in the decree, that you exchange the UM with him, on his visitation days, at a nearby police station, with a policeperson present, for your own protection.

3.You make sure you have a Restraining Order against him - that you intend to enforce - every single time he violates that order - and you actually follow through when he violates it- like an adult who gives a damn about her UM.

From the looks of things, he has so little self-control, that within a few months time (at most, I am guessing) he will have violated it so often, that he will probably be in jail - and so his "visitation rights" will no longer be a problem - for awhile. When he gets out of prison - you repeat the process - as often as necessary -until your UM is 18 or established as an adult living on their own.

If you don't have the guts to follow through with this - then IMO maybe you should consider putting your UM up for adoption, so that someone with a better idea of how to raise one in circumstances that aren't bound to screw up a UM for a life-time can have a chance to give your UM a better future than to be a constant witness to their parents' emotional upheaval and possible violence toward eachother.

Sorry to sound so harsh - but that is the cold reality in most of these cases (from what I've seen). You can deal with it - you have to want to do it - and it is not going to be easy all the time. But so what? The future mental and emotional health of your UM are at stake here. It's your job now, to consider them first - whether or not it is convenient or whether or not it always makes you happy, or is what you feel like doing.

I am sure you know this - it sounds like perhaps you do - Now: All you need to do is act on it - and stop dealing with this jerk like he has any intention of acting like a responsible adult. He doesn't - that much is clear. He needs a wake-up call re: This behavior, and how it is affecting your UM and you - and you are the only person who can give it to him.

Don't make your UM suffer, while you dither about whether or not it's the "right thing to do". It is the only thing to do that makes sense give this particular context (to me).

It's pretty simple- if he cannot behave (and he has already proven he cannot) - then have him arrested. The time for sentimentality and second chances for him has ended. He is putting the mental health of your UM and you at risk. He won't be much of a bother to you from a prison cell. It might take some work to get this done, but it will be worth it in the long run, IMO.

Good luck.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 2:03:05 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 1:52:59 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

I mostly agree with what Susan said about getting an attorney, a Legal Aid one if necessary. However the court doesn’t necessarily have to stipulate the visitation rights you desire. Your lawyer is not going to automatically get what you want. The court is going to hear his side also and will usually act in a way that is a compromise to both.

My advice is to start documenting everything with hard evidence such as videoing his behavior when he comes over and is out of line. You are going to need some type of proof to get what you want.

Remember he is probably going to have a lawyer also and is going to come after you with everything he can think of. Good luck. It sounds like you are in a bad situation.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 2:01:20 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Ex-Steel: Great advice about documenting what he is doing to her. I am sure he has a story as well (that we didn't hear). And their lawyers will have to work out the visitation stuff.

It might help if she could manage to get a "kink friendly" attorney - she can just Google "kink aware professionals" and some might pop up in her area. If not, she will have to deal with the attorney Legal Aid gives her. Even so, IMO she should try to do what I mentioned in my last post. Good luck to the OP.

One more question she may want to ask herself: There are probably 2 billion hetero, single men on this planet - why are you choosing to involve yourself with this one?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 2:40:37 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 5:44:44 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

If you don't have the guts to follow through with this - then IMO maybe you should consider putting your UM up for adoption, so that someone with a better idea of how to raise one in circumstances that aren't bound to screw up a UM for a life-time can have a chance to give your UM a better future than to be a constant witness to their parents' emotional upheaval and possible violence toward eachother.

Hi Susan,

I agree with most of what you've said. I completely understand where you're coming from. That being said, if a someone were to offer advice like this to me in my house, it's a good bet they'd be flying face first out my front door.

Some types of advice simply have no value on a message board.

Others,

I think it's worth bearing to note that the OP doesn't appear to be entirely aware of the emotional struggle she's wrestling with. A battered wife will often know 'something' is wrong, but it's much easier to shoulder the emotional blame for the situation, than it is to stand up and say it's his fault. This doesn't mean the woman is weak, stupid, or incapable; it means she's fallen into a viscious and self-propelling emotional circle that isn't easily broken.

I rather view this particular situation in the same light; FyreAngel clearly knew something was wrong, but didn't appear to be exactly sure what it was. I hope it's more clear to her now.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to SusanofO)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 5:47:39 AM

Petronius

Posts: 289
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

The past is a huge area and I've found that people who repeatedly bring it up often pick and choose exactly what areas of the past they present today.

They'll say "I can't trust you today because two years ago you did X, Y, and Z" but rarely say "I can trust you despite X,Y, and Z, because two years ago you did A, B, C, ... W."

Certainly the past is important. But there are an almost infinite number of things in the past. Why the focus?

(in reply to Stephann)

Profile

Post #: 30

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 6:02:18 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Methinks the focus is on behavioral patterns. It's not that he cheated, lied, etc once; it's that he did it several times. It's that he also punished her within the D/s dynamic, for being suspicious about his lying and cheating.

I'd say that's more than enough reason to merit focus. Hurt me once, shame on you. Hurt me twice, shame on me. Hurt me a third time, and I'll BBQ your dog.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Petronius)

Profile

Post #: 31

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 6:44:15 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

the thing about judging someone. you have to look at the whole picture not just one thing. if they continued to do this then yes i would say run forest run. someone divorce because of careers or D's stuff or needs which is petty. those are things people can work with but to lazy to. sometimes it is do to outside pressure. also a error. being a person of responsibility is on both sides of the fence and if you have kids they come first regardless sorry just the way it is

(in reply to Stephann)

Profile

Post #: 32

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 6:45:52 AM

kikinymph

Posts: 40
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline

Great advice has already been given... so mine is simple..

Decide what You want. Find out exactly what your rugrat wants (providing the rugrat can communicate, if not, then it is up to you as MOM to make the choices of what is right for the rugrat). Balance the two. Decide in your mind that all you are with this person is a Co-Parent. As a Co-Parent, all you need to discuss with him is subjects pertaining to the life and times of the rugrat! And you can let him know (notaries and certified mail--making sure you keep copies etc for yourself) in a polite way that only those issues in regards to the rugrat are what you will discuss with him. While the almighty "No" works too, simply having selective hearing, and not responding to those comments, conversational gambits and demands can work wonders. If you have to have him AT YOU HOME, which I would strongly suggest that you not continue to do, as it gives a feeling of intimacy and trust... have a friend, with you when he comes to pick up the rugrat... Or, you can drop off the rugrat at his place. Which gives you the option and ability to leave should he get pesky.

As to your original question of reasonable or unreasonable: putting too much weight on the past when you have already started to move on is wasted time-- and according to the book Slavecraft, Wasted Time is Wasted Passion. Don't waste your passion, or time, on the past, the present is too busy as it is, and the Future is promising more passion!

Kiki

_____________________________

"That which yields is not always weak." Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey

(in reply to Stephann)

Profile

Post #: 33

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 8:30:37 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Stephann - Maybe so, but that part of my post might certainly might be food for thought for her. I admit I may have gone overboard - but it was meant to wake her up!I thought it was discouraging to read that she doesn't know "which headache to deal with". My heart bleeds for her (not) if that is what dealing with her UM's welfare amounts to, in her life. Wow, what a great indication she'll be willing to bother to go to the trouble of following through with any advice anyone gives her anyway. It's great she wrote in, and is even thinking about booting him from her life - my question is - why is he even still there at all, at this point? I am not getting my hopes up she is going to do any work necessary to boot this man permanently from her life, given it might mean she needs to take an aspirin to deal.

It was out of line, perhaps - but I think when someone decides to have a UM, they've already made that decision, they just seem to spend a lot of their time dragging an innocent UM into their un-wise life choices and problems. The fact she is even dithering about a decision re: This guy is discouraging to me, given how she has characterized him - I am maybe reading a lot into her posts (but I don't think so, probably, if you want to know the truth). I've just seen my fill of people with this kind of attitude - perhaps I should not have replied - my POV is pretty colored, when it comes to these types of situations. The adult's needs always seem to come first, their UMs needs second, (if they even place at all, that is).

It's what they want that seems to matter most - they'll protest this isn't true - but upon close inspection, that is what usually is the case. She can't decide : Whether to drag an _sshole into her UMs life, despite the obvious cost to herself, or her UMs emotional health? (she might hurt the _sshole's feelings, after all, no matter how detirmental he is to her life, or her UMs life? Why is she still seeing this Bozo? Because it's easier for her, that's why. She won't follow through with any Restraining Order (I am betting my bottom dollar on it) and screw any horrible future effect this might have on her UM. I've seen this all before.

Maybe I am completely wrong, and jumped to an unfair conclusion based on one sentence of hers- I admit my POV is probably colored. But that line of hers said it all (to me). I am normally never that judgmental, but when UMs become involved my attitude changes a lot. In any case, whatever the OP does isn't likely to change much based on what anyone on a message board tells her, or not. Possible, but not likely, IMO, so it was probably wasted verbiage from me anyway, even if it was harsh.

One thing she is dead on right about is that if you don't learn from history, it is bound to repeat itself.

Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 9:30:24 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to kikinymph)

Profile

Post #: 34

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 9:31:08 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I apologize to the OP if I hurt her feelings. Please think about how your choices might be affecting your UM. This man needs to be given the boot (sounds like). Do it , don't regret it, and don't look back. You know he's bad news, and good luck (I do wish you good luck - and actually do think it is good you are questioning why this man is still in your life).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 9:47:16 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)

Profile

Post #: 35

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 9:36:39 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

A good lawyer can help solve a lot of these problems for her - and it will only take looking up Legal Aid in the phone book to find one. I apologize for my rant.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 9:38:37 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)

Profile

Post #: 36

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 9:42:34 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FyreAngel

i was hoping you'd answer. No the past is brought up when things like bdsm is mentioned. I think its ridiculous for some to expect another person to submit to them - if the trust has been destroyed. Aye? The past is a valid point for me persay, because it explains why i will never behave the way i used to with him. I dont know if its inherent parts of his character or not and i'm damn well nervous to find out. Like i told him - i took a risk and jumped in a pot and the water was boiling hot. Not so keen to take any risks anymore. It does matter - because i have accepted things to be the way they are, he has not. Like i need those bolt cutters. I have to deal with it every weekend so its brought up to me alot and i was just wondering if i'm off base of not.

quote:

What you're asking, is if what you have with him currently is worth the headaches you're clearly experiencing

No i am not, i already know that its not worth the headaches. I unfortunetly screwed myself over here. i have revaulated things and i know i would be happier with no contact. Unfortunetly every time i try and do that like "i dont want to see you this weekend" it comes down to a fucking custody battle and him threatening to come over and take my um. Hence me locking doors and calling the police for a clearer view of what my rights are. Ha! Too much damn stress if you ask me. WAY too much. Which headache do i choose? ha!

So yeah, just trying to figure out how unreasonable/reasonable i am.

This has nothing to do with the past...It has to do with you not taking charge of the present....Unless you are a total shithead of a mother he can't just come over and take your kids. Your life is consumed in unnecessary drama...If you don't deal with your past and present issues...The future does look rather bleak for you...Not to mention your kids.

This has absolutely has nothing to do with the past...Only the lack of ability that you have shown in dealing with the issues that you are still dealing with from your prior relationship. It's almost laughable that you still talk to the guy outside of communicating the necessary issues in dealing with your children.

_____________________________

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Profile

Post #: 37

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 9:52:36 AM

FyreAngel

Posts: 55
Status: offline

Yes i know, its messed up and i made the mistake. It is horribly dysfunctional and i am doing my best to make it right and to do the right thing. I have everyone yapping in my ear to "do this and do that" His family is trying to push me to move in with him. Thats the right thing if you ask them. I'm being unfair by refusing to move in with him. Hell, i'm being unfair if i try and cancel seeing him one weekend. Generally i just keep my yap shut and make the best of things. I opened my mouth once (or twice) and i ended up locking every door in my house and calling the police to see what excatly MY rights are. Apparently... he has JUST as much right as me. I was told by the cop that the only way i could prevent him from taking my um was by preventing access. IE lock all doors.

Sure i've considered fighting for custody. What if i only get joint custody??? Can you imagine what my um might learn when i'm not around to buffer everything? If he goes over for every other week? I cant keep my eye on things. Can you imagine what might happen? This way - its the weekends and i am there. i can buffer and explain and direct.

Who says i'd get full custody? Most of my family thinks i will - but my brother had a good point. I cant prove anything. His word against mine. Yeah - that goes over real well in court. I thought of having a tape recorder, but that will only work so far. STart/stop every time something happens? Like he wont notice? Like he isnt double my size?

Oh i do fully plan on getting a restraining order when i'm mentally able to deal with it all. You've got to give me a short break - i'm only 3 months post partum. My hormonal level is pretty much back to normal, but its not completely what it was. I tried to do it earlier - but i've sort explained what happened.

::clears throat:: Ok so i'm evil and a terrible mother. One more question. Isnt it just plain wrong to not allow a father and um from seeing each other? I cant seem to get past that. Wouldnt that make me one of those mothers? What about the um? They need dad's, ya know?

(in reply to SusanofO)

Profile

Post #: 38

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 9:56:36 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

This guy is possibly bonkers, IMO. I think it is good you are questioning why he is still around in your life. This really is for a judge to decide. A judge will maybe be able to see that he is a nut case - if you have you relatives testify in court the kind of thing he's been doing to you. I realize it is a difficult situation, but I also believe you can handle it, or you wouldn't be inquiring about how to do that, or what to do.

You need to document his behavior toward you -you can tape record it (there are teeny weeny practically un-detectable tape recorders out there that you can just stick in your pocket and leave turned on - go to Best Buy and inquire, or look up some on the Internet - it would take about a week to get one in the mail - you can order one while sitting at your desk with your computer, probably), and-or call the police, every time he threatens to break down your door, or to take away your UM (they will then have your phone call on record). Or both.

You probably will only get joint custody - that is the reality (maybe not, hard to tell, actually). But - IMO having a legal custody arrangement is better than dealing with this kind of endless crap - because it is legally enforceable - unless you actually are into the "drama" - which isn't probably good for your UM, or you.

He is the father, and you're going to have to deal with him, on some level. A legal custody arrangement can make that "somehow" less, rather than more, often, and also make it so that if he violates the custody arrangement, he sees less of his UM, not more - no matter what he threatens to do to you, he can't necessarily make it happen.

All it will take is a phone call to Legal Aid to get the ball rolling on that - an appointment with a lawyer - and start documenting whatver threats and weird and-or violent actions he takes towards you. You already have character witnesses on your behalf (your family) - and they can testify he is a weirdo. But I'd start documenting his off-the-wall behavior toward you - somehow. Good luck. You can do this.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/10/2007 10:22:11 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Profile

Post #: 39

RE: How Long? - 9/10/2007 10:10:14 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FyreAngel

Yes i know, its messed up and i made the mistake. It is horribly dysfunctional and i am doing my best to make it right and to do the right thing. I have everyone yapping in my ear to "do this and do that" His family is trying to push me to move in with him. Thats the right thing if you ask them. I'm being unfair by refusing to move in with him. Hell, i'm being unfair if i try and cancel seeing him one weekend. Generally i just keep my yap shut and make the best of things. I opened my mouth once (or twice) and i ended up locking every door in my house and calling the police to see what excatly MY rights are. Apparently... he has JUST as much right as me. I was told by the cop that the only way i could prevent him from taking my um was by preventing access. IE lock all doors.

Sure i've considered fighting for custody. What if i only get joint custody??? Can you imagine what my um might learn when i'm not around to buffer everything? If he goes over for every other week? I cant keep my eye on things. Can you imagine what might happen? This way - its the weekends and i am there. i can buffer and explain and direct.

Who says i'd get full custody? Most of my family thinks i will - but my brother had a good point. I cant prove anything. His word against mine. Yeah - that goes over real well in court. I thought of having a tape recorder, but that will only work so far. STart/stop every time something happens? Like he wont notice? Like he isnt double my size?

Oh i do fully plan on getting a restraining order when i'm mentally able to deal with it all. You've got to give me a short break - i'm only 3 months post partum. My hormonal level is pretty much back to normal, but its not completely what it was. I tried to do it earlier - but i've sort explained what happened.

::clears throat:: Ok so i'm evil and a terrible mother. One more question. Isnt it just plain wrong to not allow a father and um from seeing each other? I cant seem to get past that. Wouldnt that make me one of those mothers? What about the um? They need dad's, ya know?

You will get joint custody unless you or he is a shithead....Then you will also receive child support assuming the kids live with you. Then it is simply the matter of discussing the kids...No more no less...And making sure that you get the cash that your kids deserve....If he is going to speak poorly of you...Then either it is true or not...In time the kids will be able to decipher the truth on their own. Most people manage to set aside their differences for the sake of their kids...You certainly don't help your children or bolster your position by tearing one of their parents apart.

You are full of drama...I have come to accept it out here as sure as the Sun will rise and set. Your kids deserve two happy people in their lives...I wonder what their father would say about you bringing your and their shit out here....Either way you allowed him to impregnate you....Sounds like you really chose poorly...

So clean up your mess 'cause no one else is going to do it for you.

_____________________________

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Profile

Post #: 40