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How Long? - 9/9/2007 8:33:42 PM

FyreAngel

Posts: 55
Status: offline

My relationship isnt the best and infact its not even a relationship. I equate it to two people hanging out. So whatever on that, its not the point. When we are together, something might pop up and i argue my stance with the "past". Like : "No i wont obey you because i cant trust you because of x, y, z that you did 2 years ago" He keeps telling me i need to stop bringing up the past. I think the past is a valid point. Especially if the consequences of the past sits in the present. Like a lack of trust and respect.

I'm curious if i'm being completely unreasonable. I doubt it will change my position or stance, but its always good to know if one is reasonable or not. To me the past is a direct link to future behavior. Its a track record of who you are and what one can expect from you. I understand that people can change and yadda yadda yadda. Except i think there is a baseline for everyones character. That baseline (unless influenced by a traumatic event) will most likely never change. Its who you ARE - not what you've learned. Even if the two are interchangable.

So is it unreasonable (or even illogical) to charge others with their past deeds? What does everyone else think about people, past and present behaviors, people changing, and when the past is really the past.

One of the things i learned about history - if you dont study and learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it. How does that fit into "change"?

Post #: 1

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 8:54:28 PM

SwPuno

Posts: 72
Joined: 10/28/2004
Status: offline

Yes, the past can be important information and a possible warning sign. But if you aren't going to give them a chance to do something different and demonstrate change or growth then you are just wasting your time and theirs, aren't you? Either give this one some slack to show you that they have learned or changed, and count in the new information as well as the old as you go forward, or abandon this person whose past you're locked onto, and move on to someone who has an "acceptable" history and give them a chance.

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 2

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 8:55:52 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

I think if you truly can't move past someone's past behavior you shouldn't be in a relationship that requires you to. For example if you can't trust someone due to his past behavior you shouldn't be in a relationship that requires trust.

Yes past behavior can break trust but also what's past is past. IF you want to forgive someone - forgive them. Don't keep rubbing their nose in what they did two years ago or ten. If you refuse to forgive them, let them know honestly, and see how fun it is to have a relationship without forgiveness.

I don't believe past choices will always be repeated. They can, definitely, especially if the person has no desire to change. But continuing to punish for something that happened so long ago is unfair. Forgive and move on in your relationship. Or don't forgive - and move on to someone else.

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 3

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 8:56:05 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Your past is a valid point as long as it's brought up as a valid point and not just as an easy excuse or bludgeon to keep him down.

Are the mistakes he has made in the past due to inherent parts of his character that have not changed? Or are they due to other things which may have changed? If you are going to enter into this conversation, he deserves a chance to give his side of the story on how things have changed for him.

But really, if it's just you guys hanging out, why do you even care? You've accepted it for what it is, either enjoy it or end the relationship. You have only yourself to hold responsible when things go bad KNOWING things are what they are.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 4

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 8:59:14 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

Also if they did something two years ago and you refuse to give them the chance to show they won't do it again, you're limiting their growth. If a guy borrows the car and it runs out of gas, I can see a week without the car to have him learn his lesson. However if after two years you still refuse to let him borrow the car at all, you don't know whether or not he will learn to put gas in it. And you aren't letting him find out either.

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 5

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:00:32 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I think if you truly can't move past someone's past behavior you shouldn't be in a relationship that requires you to. For example if you can't trust someone due to his past behavior you shouldn't be in a relationship that requires trust.

Yes past behavior can break trust but also what's past is past. IF you want to forgive someone - forgive them. Don't keep rubbing their nose in what they did two years ago or ten. If you refuse to forgive them, let them know honestly, and see how fun it is to have a relationship without forgiveness.

I don't believe past choices will always be repeated. They can, definitely, especially if the person has no desire to change. But continuing to punish for something that happened so long ago is unfair. Forgive and move on in your relationship. Or don't forgive - and move on to someone else.

Ditto. And what LA said.

I think the question you're asking, isn't if you're being reasonable. What you're asking, is if what you have with him currently is worth the headaches you're clearly experiencing. I've been on the other end of this...it's not pleasent. If you really think you can't get past your feelings of betrayal, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate his role in your life, and see if you might be happier with less, or no contact.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 6

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:04:16 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Also if they did something two years ago and you refuse to give them the chance to show they won't do it again, you're limiting their growth. If a guy borrows the car and it runs out of gas, I can see a week without the car to have him learn his lesson. However if after two years you still refuse to let him borrow the car at all, you don't know whether or not he will learn to put gas in it. And you aren't letting him find out either.

some people are hard wired that way. no matter what you change or do they will still think the worst of you. some of tthings that caused those issues if they are still there like alchol or drugs in their life I would say no not to trust them but if they are over those things and it has been a long time you never know

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 7

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:06:39 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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If you live in the past-you have no future.

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(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 8

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:08:29 PM

FyreAngel

Posts: 55
Status: offline

i was hoping you'd answer. No the past is brought up when things like bdsm is mentioned. I think its ridiculous for some to expect another person to submit to them - if the trust has been destroyed. Aye? The past is a valid point for me persay, because it explains why i will never behave the way i used to with him. I dont know if its inherent parts of his character or not and i'm damn well nervous to find out. Like i told him - i took a risk and jumped in a pot and the water was boiling hot. Not so keen to take any risks anymore. It does matter - because i have accepted things to be the way they are, he has not. Like i need those bolt cutters. I have to deal with it every weekend so its brought up to me alot and i was just wondering if i'm off base of not.

quote:

What you're asking, is if what you have with him currently is worth the headaches you're clearly experiencing

No i am not, i already know that its not worth the headaches. I unfortunetly screwed myself over here. i have revaulated things and i know i would be happier with no contact. Unfortunetly every time i try and do that like "i dont want to see you this weekend" it comes down to a fucking custody battle and him threatening to come over and take my um. Hence me locking doors and calling the police for a clearer view of what my rights are. Ha! Too much damn stress if you ask me. WAY too much. Which headache do i choose? ha!

So yeah, just trying to figure out how unreasonable/reasonable i am.

< Message edited by FyreAngel -- 9/9/2007 9:13:36 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 9

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:09:05 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Your past is a valid point as long as it's brought up as a valid point and not just as an easy excuse or bludgeon to keep him down.

Bingo.

If you can't forgive him, I'd say stop wasting time. For both of you. If you don't want to end it, working on forgiving and trusting him not to make the same mistake. Assuming this mistake isn't "I'm not letting you have a drink because the last time you did you killed someone" variety that is.

Edited because it sent too early.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/9/2007 9:11:10 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:11:35 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FyreAngel

i was hoping you'd answer. No the past is brought up when things like bdsm is mentioned. I think its ridiculous for some to expect another person to submit to them - if the trust has been destroyed. Aye? The past is a valid point for me persay, because it explains why i will never behave the way i used to with him. I dont know if its inherent parts of his character or not and i'm damn well nervous to find out. Like i told him - i took a risk and jumped in a pot and the water was boiling hot. Not so keen to take any risks anymore. It does matter - because i have accepted things to be the way they are, he has not. Like i need those bolt cutters. I have to deal with it every weekend so its brought up to me alot and i was just wondering if i'm off base of not.

Bah this is stupid to talk about. Sorry to bother

It's not stupid to talk about. And you have every right to decide not to submit to someone because you don't feel comfortable with that person. In fact we seem to agree - if you can't move past something...move on. And that seems like what you're doing.

Just stay strong :)

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 11

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:15:37 PM

FyreAngel

Posts: 55
Status: offline

what if its a multitude of mistakes? So!

Next question

If you cant forgive some one, how do you go about dealing with being around them? I'm sure we all have people like that in our lives

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 12

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:20:56 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FyreAngel

what if its a multitude of mistakes? So!

Depends on the mistakes. I make a lot of mistakes - from buying the wrong kind of cereal to forgetting to put up my notes from the student help center. Both get me in trouble with Valyraen.

quote:

Next question

If you cant forgive some one, how do you go about dealing with being around them? I'm sure we all have people like that in our lives

Again - depends on the mistake. I have one friend who made the mistake of telling me I was pushing women back to the stone age, blah blah blah. I deal with him by not asking his calls and being polite but distent when we run across each other in social circles.

Running across my ex-owner would probably leave me politely excusing myself from the group or simply ignoring him as much as possible.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/9/2007 9:21:39 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 13

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:22:07 PM

FyreAngel

Posts: 55
Status: offline

yes yes yes it is dumb to talk about. But i seem to be talking at the moment. I'm overtired = ( Eh, yeah, i have moved on. Could careless now. Its just all logistics. Sadly, he knows this and yet wont let go. Has anyone else ever run into this? What is this? My mother even asked me why he was with me.

Oh well. I appreicate you all letting me babble and not jumping my shit for it. ::smiles:: 6.30 am comes around early when its already midnight. So i'm out.

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 14

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:24:47 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

I'm assuming from certain clues such as 'having' to see him every weekend that this isn't something you can avoid. I would be polite, cordial, and minimize all contact. I would not have anything romantic with him, anything intimate, or even anything too friendly until he was able to accept the fact that the past was over and any contact from that point on would be on entirely different terms.

Also I would not argue with him. You say you defend your point with x,y,z etc...that just gives him more hope that he can 'convince' you. If he says "I want......" don't say "well no because....." just say "no." If he asks why say "Because I don't want to, and I'm not going to." No discussion, no debate. Simply no. When used alone it nips his argument in the bud. You can't argue with "no" if anything you say is just replied to with "no" - and it will have the added benefit of pissing him off

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 15

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:27:08 PM

FyreAngel

Posts: 55
Status: offline

betrayals, lies, cheating several times sexually, god knows how many times emtionally.........turning his back on me, ooo i got a good one.......... i was punished several times for "doubting hiim" cos i KNEW he was cheating...

all the "little mistakes" i correct daily. "no we dont yell at old people" "no we dont hit animals" "no we dont scream cuss words at other motorists" "yes doing the right thing matters" ect ect ect. LOL poor man cant do anything with out me "correcting" or bitching.

::smiles:: Do ya like the bed i made? Its preeeeeeeetty with roses and flowers and ummm.. LOL

ok seriously - bed

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 16

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:27:51 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FyreAngel

i was hoping you'd answer. No the past is brought up when things like bdsm is mentioned. I think its ridiculous for some to expect another person to submit to them - if the trust has been destroyed. Aye? The past is a valid point for me persay, because it explains why i will never behave the way i used to with him. I dont know if its inherent parts of his character or not and i'm damn well nervous to find out. Like i told him - i took a risk and jumped in a pot and the water was boiling hot. Not so keen to take any risks anymore. It does matter - because i have accepted things to be the way they are, he has not. Like i need those bolt cutters. I have to deal with it every weekend so its brought up to me alot and i was just wondering if i'm off base of not.

quote:

What you're asking, is if what you have with him currently is worth the headaches you're clearly experiencing

No i am not, i already know that its not worth the headaches. I unfortunetly screwed myself over here. i have revaulated things and i know i would be happier with no contact. Unfortunetly every time i try and do that like "i dont want to see you this weekend" it comes down to a fucking custody battle and him threatening to come over and take my um. Hence me locking doors and calling the police for a clearer view of what my rights are. Ha! Too much damn stress if you ask me. WAY too much. Which headache do i choose? ha!

So yeah, just trying to figure out how unreasonable/reasonable i am.

Hi Fyre,

I didn't mean to suggest I knew everything about the situation; I apologize if that's the tone I used. The advice I offered was only in light of what you had shared of me (considering I honestly don't know you.)

He can't 'take' your child. Consult a lawyer for the exact state laws (I know, expensive, but you're going to have to weigh the value of your child's safety here.) Basically, I'd do everything in my power to ensure that he couldn't use the "be my slave or I'll steal our child" card against me. Record every phone conversation you have with him. Keep a tape recorder for when he comes over. Unleash that maternal "don't you fuck with me and mine" instinct, and I'm guessing he'll turtle.

But yeah, based on what you've told me, you're not only being reasonable; you're not doing nearly as much as you can to put this guy in his place. You don't owe him anything. His apparent assertions that you do, and his threats to enforce that, border on criminal.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 17

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:29:26 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

Edited because I read a post that I accidently skipped before. Just reread Stephann's. He can't take your child and if he continues bad behavior, you might be able to get his visits to the child reduced.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/9/2007 9:31:15 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FyreAngel)

Post #: 18

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:31:31 PM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

If I were you I would press charges. Get a restraining order. It is well worth it - if only to set an example for your UM

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 19

RE: How Long? - 9/9/2007 9:33:31 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of requiring supervised visits, every time. Basically, he's not allowed to have any private time with the child.

I think further, that the first step towards resolving this relationship peacefully, is to aggressively assert your rights as the mother. I can't possibly imagine what kind of monster would threaten to take a child, in order to 'entice' a sub/slave to come back. He clearly needs therapy.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 20

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