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RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 8:41:05 PM   
sadisticmaster03


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		thanks for all the great replys........ SM03

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 8:42:52 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I think that's a great idea, CuriousLord.

I still have to ask myself why this couple is leaving figuring all of this out up to him, when they are the ones who wanted this scene originally.

They sound like complete idiots (to me), frankly. Pardon my bluntness, no offense intended - but it amazes me, really.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/22/2007 9:30:17 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 9:20:08 PM   
sadisticmaster03


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		SOOOOOO In Conclusion this is what happend........ Nothing.

I read all your great relpys and relized I dont have a consent,  She will be bound and cannot speak for herself  and I am driving off in his car with her bound and gaged in the back seat ie car jack scene per his request.  She claims it is a very hot scene and always wanted this to happen according to husband.  Keep in mind I have played several several times, but I always talk to the submissive in person to discuss the scene with her bf or husband there to make sure we are all on the same page.  We discuss the limits, safe words and how the scene will start and how it will end. 

So, At 5:00pm two hours before the car jack I call the husband and tell him I dont feel right about this whole thing. I  needs a consent or contract.  He says he has a contract signed by her giving him total control of the scene and what he says goes.   He said he will be at my house at 8;00 for regular bondage session.  He is a little up-set because this changes the whole situation.I tell him to forget the carjack it wont happen.  I need to read the contact before play.  I have a lot of risk riding on me.

They arrive, the women is very very hot,  They both say they are dissapointed and cannot do the scene.  Husband and wife looking forward to the hostage/car jack scene and claim I am a fake and waisted their time.  Wife said it was a hot scene and she was looking forward to the hostage scene.  They dont want to do a regular session of bondage just wanted to come over and tell me how dissapointed.  I never did see a contract or consent form when they arrived. He never pull it out.  I told them I was sorry but I have a lot at stake.  Kidnap is a serious thing without consent.  Husband says he knows the law and  as long as the the concent and forms are signed then all is good.

I explained that is not correct.  I dont opperate that way.  I have to speak to the submissive before all play begins.  I had two weeks to get read, what I should have done, is get the consent signed in advanced and have them sent it to me with witness.   But thats not all valid.  Oh well.......... all for nothing.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 9:30:50 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		do you not know contracts bdsm wise do not hold up in a court of law just the way it is

(in reply to sadisticmaster03)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 9:32:55 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		sadisticmaster03: They're idiots, and possibly criminals. And rude, to top it off. What a charming combination.

Good riddance to them. Actually, the husband could not be more incorrect, he appears to know not much about the law, as it pertains to the BDSM world, if anything.

They may have been asking you to do something illegal, for which you'd maybe have ended up paying the price in terms of law enforcement - and just not admitting it.

Even if not, they are idiots, plus rude, (which is still bad enough, IMO)

I hope they don't pro-create, and create even more idiots. 'Nuff said.

Too bad they wasted your time, though.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/22/2007 9:48:12 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to sadisticmaster03)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 9:45:07 PM   
sadisticmaster03


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		susan,

I am glad too, just to much pressure and I have learned if it does not feel right, then go with it.  Thanks for all the great replys.  Better safe the sorry.  SM03

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/22/2007 9:47:15 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Better luck next time. There are decent and responsible people who enjoy BDSM out there (as you probably already know).

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/22/2007 9:58:37 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to sadisticmaster03)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 12:01:30 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		awe.  That bites. Got trunk?

<<will travel.

lol

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 12:43:39 AM   
shysecrets


Posts: 14
Joined: 6/26/2006
Status: offline 		People are seeming to forget that no matter what consent form she sighns or how many vidio tapes you have of her giveing consent, it all doesnt matter, you cant consent to haveing something elegal done to you. All it would take is her turning around and desideing she didnt really want it, then alll she has to do is press charges and claim it was coarsed and the consent form and vidio will serve as wonderfull evadence that what she claimed took place really did. Face it no matter how consentual it is at the time she can turn around and say it wasnt, and then it doesnt really matter if it ever was consentual because it is ellegal and all it takes consent or not is someone willling to press charges. What my post boils down to is there is nothing you can do to make this legal. Even proof of her consent doesnt make it legal and doesnt in any way prohibit her from pressing charges later down the road if she should deside she was forsed into it in any way.

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 12:59:19 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Oh I think in this case, a video and aduio tape giving consent would definitely help him, if they were to press kidnapping charges. Of course in the end, it would depend on the judge. My sister is an attorney. Of course they could argue they made the tapes "under duress" (they were forced). But if they cannot prove that then they'd have no case.

I think they were just kind of dim folks, frankly - but there is a possibility they were planning to cash in on it somehow, or else just hate people who are into BDSM, and were trying to set him up for jail, or something.

Because there is something odd about this request (to me) in that they never were willing to accede to this simple request on his part, and that they wanted to do this so soon, and without ever having met him in person. He was virtually a stranger to them, actually. It just smells fishy to me. 

In any case, I'd advise against playing with people so stupid they couldn't 1) Understand why he'd make this request (or pretend to - or stall on it) and 2) Not volunteer to research what needs to be done themselves - when they are the ones making the request to begin with.

They seemed to have little impulse-control - so much that they simply could not bother to wait to get to know him better, and do less intense play before making a request this intense. This was their first real-life meet, for heaven's sake. This request shows a definite lack of good judgment, and some immaturity, IMO.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/23/2007 1:19:06 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to shysecrets)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 1:06:07 AM   
SmokingGun82


Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		It's true that you can't consent to something illegal in most jurisdictions... but what she'd be consenting to (the car ride part, at least) wouldn't necessarily be illegal. Unless it violated a seat belt law or safe passage law, something of that ilk. There's no law (that I know of) against borrowing the car of someone else and driving around with someone who was consensually tied up in the back seat/trunk.

The only time it would be illegal would be without consent. Like if I drive my roommate to the store, that's fine. If I force my roommate into the car and drive her to the store it's illegal. So the consent prevents this from being illegal, at least until the torment part starts.

It's late and I'm tired, though, so if I'm missing something please forgive.

(Edited to add- this was meant in reply to shysecrets insinuation that a contract/agreement wouldn't be helpful. Not to say that doing it without written out consent from all parties would have been a good idea. Sorry for any confusion.)


< Message edited by SmokingGun82 -- 8/23/2007 1:43:37 AM >

_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

(in reply to shysecrets)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 1:13:41 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Lots of what bdsm IS is illegal. From spanking to harder hittin' kinks.

The only way (IMO) that this couple can screw him over is if he is in an accident while driving their car, that car doesn't cover him as the driver (maybe it is a rental) and these two point fingers and actually accuse him of being a car-jacker to get out of payment of damages.

Too many see negative, I am seeing the positive but, these are strangers afterall, maybe they can get a closer friend/aquantance to do such things.


(in reply to SmokingGun82)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 1:21:07 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		That, plus they could accuse him of kidnapping. That is certainly illegal.

This couple could even have had a camera in the car, for all he knows - and there are reasons that could explain why, that might make a differenced to a judge (or not). Kidnapping is a felony - it is not a minor crime. Depending on the jurisdiction, it can entail decades in prison. Whether he was guilty or not, he'd still have to get a lawyer, and maybe pay court costs for his accusers as well. They could have tried to blackmail him, to stop that from happening.

Anything could have happened. He had never met these people even once, face to face. Not once.

BDSM play on the whole, is a risk. *But my position is that some risks are just so plain stupid to begin with they just don't pay to consider taking. This is probably one of them, IMO.

Then again, I don't do Breathplay either - and it is a BDSM pratice with plenty of fans. I don't understand why anyone would need to go quite that far, with the risk of death and permanent brain damage that entails, no matter what anyone says about "safety precautions", etc. - but that's just me. It has: "Stupid risk, and not necessary" written all over it (to me). 

There are plenty of sensible people in the world I can find for friends - I wouldn't see a need for the ones the OP mentioned to be in my life at all - especially not after this little episode. I'd ditch them forever.

All they could see were their own selfish needs - they didn't seem to give a damn about any risk he was taking, and had little regard for his feelings to top it off. They appear to me to be selfish, immature morons. I'd say good riddance to them.

To each their own, though.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/23/2007 1:42:58 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 1:59:14 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Yes, kidnapping, carjacking, fine line. Especially since she wanted to stay in the car.

Why can't this guy rent a farm and do this sorta stuff on his own property and get to the tyin' up already.  Its all about the car, too risky, damn car.  It is too 'public'.

I tend to think her wannabe stockholm syndrome issues in her own little safe cacoon are fantasies that risk others more than herself.  Selfish !

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 2:12:44 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		For anyone who might not know: It just doesn't matter if she wanted to stay in the car. What matters is what she accuses him of doing to her, what a judge chooses to believe, and how this could have been set up behind his back to look. Plus - court costs, legal fees and possible prison time.

Anything like this could have been set up, behind his back, without any knowledge on his part. They might have wanted to blackmail him to keep out of trouble for supposedly doing this to her "against her will". It has been known to happen.

BDSM may have no legal defense - however, Kidnapping isn't "just BDSM". It is a felony in every U.S. state. If somebody is imaginative enough to think of something - trust me, somebody out there is thinking about doing it. I don't consider this thought an over-reaction on my part. A little paranoia in a case like this can be a good thing, IMO.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/23/2007 2:39:11 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 2:15:13 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Yeah..what if the car was stolen to begin with lol.

why can't people just tie eachother up anymore without making it sooo darn complicated??

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 2:17:25 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		It could even have been a stolen car. I hate to pop anyone's enthusiasm balloon, but this is why it is important to at least meet people before agreeing to anything this involved and intense, IMO. It is impossible to judge anyone's motives without knowing them fairly well, at least it is for me.  I think it's great the OP questioned the situation.

For me, that entails at least meeting them face to face. Without a chance to at least look at them, I can't really tell what they have in mind, or how trustworthy they are or aren't. I can give them the benefit of the doubt if we've been talking and e-mailing for awhile, but in this case, I don't think the risk is worth it.

He'd been e-mailing them for 9 months, and they turned out to be spoiled selfish morons, IMO. Maybe he'd gotten a clue or two about that, but apparently not enough of them. Too bad for him, but I think he did the right thing to just walk away.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/23/2007 2:39:47 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 2:22:09 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Well, he decided against it so I have nothing to look forward to now ...

until new season of Oprah starts. sigh.

lol

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 2:23:26 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Don't worry, there are plenty of stories like this around, here at CM. I've got one or two of my own. Not everyone's have (relatively) happy endings like this one, though.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/23/2007 2:33:20 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: need some help, legal question..... - 8/23/2007 2:33:23 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Yeah, I would start a thread but pftt, I got nothing interesting going on and no sex life lately. BoooO Hisss

I'd have to make it up and even then it would be dull dull. LOL.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 40
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