need some help, legal question..... (Full Version)

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sadisticmaster03 -> need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 1:56:54 PM)

I am playing with a couple  this evening, The husband will be a watcher and his wife will be a submissive tied up for two days.  I meet this couple over a nine months ago never met them just e mails.  About one month ago I get a call from the lets say his name is John.  He and his wife are into bondage play parties, she has always wanted to be in a hostage scene but according to John, it has to be as real as poss.  I have elected to use my house for two day and play with his wife while she is bound and blindfolded for 48 hours.  no sex, just bondage and some light oral via condom and a butt plug incerted.  I understand she loves long bondage and can last days and night.    I have elected to  car jack his car with his permision and her in the back seat tied and bound and blindfolded.  I asked for a consent permission written out, but I dont know if she signed the concent form or he may be lying and she may say I never had consent.    I contacted three of there refrences all males they play in the past, refrences said they were a fun couple however they never play for 48 hours straight.  Can I be getting in a problem without proper concsnt.  Thanks SM



came4U -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 2:01:22 PM)

Althought it would be fun to play 'Sopranos' for a bit, I would get something (at the least) in writing that all of this is just an act, play, whatever. Anything handwritten in her and his writing with witnesses can at the very least be SOME legal discourse for later date if trouble arises. (ie: you get pulled over by police because a witness called the car in) etc.  I am curious to see how it turns out. Do keep us informed.



callistaIn -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 2:11:28 PM)

I would meet with them BEFORE the actual play date; have in hand a written contract that spells out EVERYTHING; and have both of them sign it. I would also have someone else along with me as a witness. That is the only way I would go through with such a scenario.



sadisticmaster03 -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 2:12:22 PM)

Thank you,  I know the fun and be fun but you never, never know.  I will keep you posted. 



came4U -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 2:13:02 PM)

can I hold the vid cam? lol



sadisticmaster03 -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 2:30:23 PM)

all good information,  I will meet them before hand.  Discuss the situation with contract in hand and witness.  SM



Mercnbeth -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 3:56:43 PM)

quote:

 have elected to  car jack his car with his permission and her in the back seat tied and bound and blindfolded. 


SM 03 -
Just make sure her bondage includes a seat belt or you could get in real trouble.

Have fun!

You may also consider requiring to speak with her direct and/or have them record a video of her giving consent. The consent should include your name and broad stroke outline of the scene, and give it to you prior to the 'kidnapping'.

quote:

I asked for a consent permission written out, but I dont know if she signed the consent form or he may be lying and she may say I never had consent. I contacted three of there references all males they play in the past, references said they were a fun couple.
Curious though - if you don't fully trust that she actually signed the consent form why would you trust the refences you got coming from the same source?



sadisticmaster03 -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 4:10:41 PM)

video, very smart, very smart.  in fact very smart,  thank you for a great idea.  TONY



MasterMike04103 -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 5:02:15 PM)

Might I offer that if your using a vid cam... that you have two of them running, with time stamps and whatnot because we both know that 48 hours of footage will not fit on a single tape and any break in the time/footage could lead to your demise...

Mike



leatherette -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 5:18:55 PM)

Dear SadM03:

I don't like to assert myself and disagree with so many posters - but this has some seriously dangerous possibilities.  
Dangerous for YOU.

Please do a Google check. Criminal cases .. BDSM, set ups etc.

YOU could be a pawn.

If anything: please meet the couple first. In public. Make sure the woman is willing. It would be a good idea to speak to her alone to see if she is being forced into this. OR that they may not be a couple at all. Could it be an act of revenge by that man setting up the woman - could be his ex, maybe?

BTW: I am not sure about video taping such action. It could be used as evidence against you.

( theses are not my ideas - I had studied law)

Please take care





pandoravampire -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 5:25:26 PM)

An abduction seems pretty high intensity for a first meet and play.
You request a written consent form (good thinking) and then dont have it in your hand? (you've undone your good thinking).

Personally, i believe you shouldnt trust em. This is potentially, your incarceration we are talking about, take care of your liberty, do not entrust it to another without them earning your trust. Like i say, an abduction is high intensity on trust for a first meet.

And you say yourself, the references say, she's never played for 48hrs before. Bondage over a arvo, cool, bondage over a 2 day stretch, mmm, me thinking very sore joints with potential damage. Me also thinking someone is allowing fantasy to leak into reality. Its never worked for me, but then im trapped in a human body, with its normal perameters of physical endurance.
Normally, long durations of bondage, have frames to lean a body on, like a bed, a floor, etc. trussed up in the back of a car (which we couldnt fit a seat belt whilst we did this) and after the 15 min car ride, bouncing around bound on the back seat and i was allready sore n stiff and in pain. Cant imagine how id then of stood up to the test of 24 hrs bondage ahead?

I think this sounds like a fun scene. Just not sure about doing it as a first play, and pretty sure, that you wont get 48 hrs out of her without causing damage to her joints. Have you discussed how she'll cover her missing wages coz she's off sick with muscle/skeletal injuries? Who pays for out of pocket expenses then? Physio bills?

Other practical tips.
Make food and drink prior to session. (feed her and re-hydrate her)
Decide who will provide after care to whom.
Toileting breaks
removing bondage and rubbing some life into tired limbs
ensuring your bondage is good. AS in safe, not across joints etc.
Having a emergency ligature knife to cut bonds.
Not starting anything until you've got your little mits on the signed and witnessed detailed scene plan, which includes safe word previously agreed upon.

pandoravampire




Petronius -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 5:31:07 PM)

Personally, I think that it is incredibly dangerous, on multiple levels, to play that heavily in a first scene.

But I've slagged enough other people for claiming that nobody should play at a level they're uncomfortable with. So I'm certainly not going to claim in some absolute manner that you shouldn't do it.

Having some scene description down in writing and agreed upon by all concerned would, as others suggested, be a most useful form of insurance.





leatherette -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 5:32:23 PM)

pandoravampire: Those are some terrific suggestions. Anyone planning on playing with such intensity should be as prepared and aware.

Much respect, leatherette



sadisticmaster03 -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 6:24:09 PM)

You are right,  I talk to the husband and we have toned it down a bit.  There was going to be a car jacking involved ..... that is not going to happen, I said no way to that on a first session.  It boils down to a general one to three hour bondage session and see what happens after that.  she is coming over my house tied and blindfolded, I can handle that.  There is a consent signed.  I have to see it frist.  TONY



MisPandora -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 6:38:26 PM)

Do let us know what town you're in so we know to watch CNN for the footage of your arrest.....



MasterMataeo -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 7:02:36 PM)

get the consent form signed before anything happens ,, then use the trunk ,,,,
no need to get pulled over from a call saying you have a woman tied up in the back seat,,,, hehehe

and if no consent form ,,, no play,,,,

MasterMataeo



leatherette -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 7:25:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

Do let us know what town you're in so we know to watch CNN for the footage of your arrest.....


[sm=flowers.gif] 
A needed public service messege. TY Ma'am.

(OP - she's for real) about the consent form: have her sign it in person in front of you - before, of course. Gotta make sure there isn't a gun to her head.. or that some dude on a park bench didn't scribble his John Hancock.

But - wishing you all have a fabulous time :-) 



SusanofO -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 7:34:35 PM)

This is a wee bit too hard-core for me to ever consider doing with people I've never met in person.

My answer would definitely be "No" to that. Glad they "toned down" their initial request.

Having them record their consent on video and audio tape might work fine - IF they are trustworthy to begin with.

I have to question why the need for requesting this intense a scene at the very beginning of a relationship -something about it just makes me suspicious.

Depending on your POV, the whole idea at the very least just screams really loud (to me): "I have terrible judgment".

Not sure I'd want to scene with people who cannot either figure the need for explicit, verifiable consent in this situation out for themselves, unless "beat over the head" with it from someone else - especially since it was their idea to begin with.

If they're not willing to do less intense things as a "get to know you" phase, then well - I'd pass them by. But it sounds like you've maybe worked it out.

Just my two cents.

- Susan



daddysliloneds -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 8:24:18 PM)

a chump is born everyday; sounds like they found theirs.



CuriousLord -> RE: need some help, legal question..... (8/22/2007 8:32:21 PM)

Probably too late, and I'm not able to speak in legal capacity, but this is what I would do:
-Take the couple to a very public place.  Say, a mall.
-Bring a video camera, papers, a fresh envelope, and a good pen.
-Write out a consent form, perferably on carbon paper.  While it's being video-taped.  Make sure it's obvious that this is a public place with people around.
-Have all parties sign it.  You keep the orginial, carbon copies to the other two if they should so care for it.
-After it's written or so, have the writer (perferably the female sub) take the camera and point it at you.  Be wearing light clothing, devoid of anything that may resemble a weapon, concealled or not.
-Put the video tape and contract in a safe place- one that those two couldn't get to it.  A bank box would be great, if you have one.
-If you want to be very safe, I'd have someone at the bank notarize the contract and/or tape before play occurs.
-Consulting a lawyer is generally a safe, but costly, way of dealing with such things.

Now you have their consent, obviously written and agreed upon by them.  You have it video taped, proving that they actually wrote it.  It's in a public place, where they could get help, and you're shown to be unarmed, so there's no real question of them being cohereced violently or so- which would really make any story they might want to come up with extremely far-fetched.  You have their contacts, which, hopefully, would be witnesses to say that, yes, these folks are into this sort of thing.

It may or may not be bullet proof, and, again, I'm not a lawyer, but I think this would be a relatively safe way of going about it.



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