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Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 8:19:07 AM   
NorthernGent


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To what extent does your environment shape the person you are?

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 8:21:55 AM   
kittinSol


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In no way does my environment shape me: I am born this way .

(Being facetious, sorry - more later, if you can bear it.)

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 8:42:30 AM   
Termyn8or


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NG, I think we need a little bit more context here.

I mean are we talking climate, living arraingements or upbringing ? The question is a bit too broad for one thread. My answer would probably be 30,000 words and take a day and a half to type, then the fucking computer would crash and I would lose it all, so be more specific.

T

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 8:58:38 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

NG, I think we need a little bit more context here.

I mean are we talking climate, living arraingements or upbringing ? The question is a bit too broad for one thread. My answer would probably be 30,000 words and take a day and a half to type, then the fucking computer would crash and I would lose it all, so be more specific.

T


Everything existing outside "I".

'Wouldn't want to clip anyone's wings by restricting the question to something along the lines of "do you think oxygen has contributed towards your development?"

Maybe an introductory paragraph or two?

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:01:34 AM   
CuriousLord


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What's the difference between "self" and "environment"?

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:07:13 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

What's the difference between "self" and "environment"?


The self is "I". Your environment is "not-I".

Clear?


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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:08:47 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

In no way does my environment shape me: I am born this way .



Cloned?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

(Being facetious, sorry - more later, if you can bear it.)



Yeah, I'll cope.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:26:35 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

(Being facetious, sorry - more later, if you can bear it.)



Yeah, I'll cope.


Thanks, you're a real gent. I'm going to throw caution to the wind and tell it how it is for me: I think I am a product of nurture and culture. Whilst there is a small obvious percentage of me that derives from nature (and not all of it's good: where the FUCK does that weird stain in my left iris come from? It's very irritating.) I think I'm a result of my (intricate, complicated) environment.

PS: forgot the last 'point final' and saw Lordandmonster lurking.


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 8/4/2007 9:37:59 AM >


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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:30:21 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

What's the difference between "self" and "environment"?


The self is "I". Your environment is "not-I".

Clear?


Not quite.  How do you define "I"?

Are you the same person without your arms?  Your legs?  Your home?  Your family?  Your friends?

What's part of you, and what's part of the environment?

Not to be hard on you- the answer to the OP just depends on where you happen to draw a line.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:34:48 AM   
kittinSol


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It's up to you how to define thyself, Lordy. If you need to poke into academic research for tips on the psychology of the self, there's LOTS to look out there. But I rather think NorthernGent was hoping for a personal reply.

It really is up to you: let your imagination run wild! Go crazy! Let go! Be mad! Go on, man, you know you can do it.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:45:57 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Ah, but I am not-I.  A little Eastern philosophy might help here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

What's the difference between "self" and "environment"?


The self is "I". Your environment is "not-I".

Clear?

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:47:37 AM   
Termyn8or


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Let's split some words down again.

We are not in an environment, we are part of an environment.

Damn, that's almost worthy of another thread, but not quite.

T

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:51:07 AM   
Lordandmaster


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You know, you say some very insightful things sometimes.  Makes me wonder why you go and fuck everything up with your racist nonsense.  But that's a different matter, I suppose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

We are not in an environment, we are part of an environment.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 9:52:09 AM   
kittinSol


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Your hair's too long: that's why you're able to split it.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 10:15:00 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Not quite.  How do you define "I"?



Curious, I'm going to leave this open for you. Feel free to define "I" and post accordingly. There's no pressure....relax about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Your home? 



On second thoughts, if you consider yourself to be a house, then feel free to sit this one out. Some imagination you have there.......tips hat.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 10:25:04 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Thanks, you're a real gent.



'Always a pleasure, kittin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I'm going to throw caution to the wind and tell it how it is for me: I think I am a product of nurture and culture. Whilst there is a small obvious percentage of me that derives from nature (and not all of it's good: where the FUCK does that weird stain in my left iris come from? It's very irritating.) I think I'm a result of my (intricate, complicated) environment.



Sounds reasonable. Where does your inner voice fit with this, or exerting your will?

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 8/4/2007 10:26:13 AM >


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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 10:28:15 AM   
cuddleheart50


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On second thoughts, if you consider yourself to be a house, then feel free to sit this one out.

I have a very weird sense of humor and that was just too funny!

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 11:08:18 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Not quite.  How do you define "I"?



Curious, I'm going to leave this open for you. Feel free to define "I" and post accordingly. There's no pressure....relax about it.


Pressure?  Pft.  I'm asking you to define your question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Your home? 



On second thoughts, if you consider yourself to be a house, then feel free to sit this one out. Some imagination you have there.......tips hat.


Actually, a large number of people see their homes, or other work/living spaces as an extension of self.  Still, if you're going to be arrogant with regards to a simple question about yourself, I take it you have some emotional issues to work through.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 11:12:52 AM   
wandersalone


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Smiles heya NG… what seems such a simple question is anything but!

I read a little about the concept of non-duality many years ago and like the idea that there is no separation of I and everything else however I think that would lead to a totally different question – how do you shape your environment.

In answer to yours…. To what extent does the environment shape the person I am?
There are a number of levels I guess
Parents provided the DNA and some of my traits I guess
Family upbringing shaped some of my beliefs, importance of caring for ones family, that kind of thing.  My brother suicided 7 years ago so I learnt that even a person who is deeply loved can feel alone.  His death was a major catalyst for change within myself – I stopped putting off enjoyable/meaningful activities.  I got rid of a whole lot of people whom I felt I was ‘biding my time’ with as it wasn’t respectful to them or me.

Based on my various interactions and relationships over the years I am a little guarded at first and admit that at times I still flinch if I hear loud arguing, I prefer openness and honesty to lies and games.  I feel that I have still a way to go before I will be confident in the personal relationships I seek with others and that is ok, I am in no rush….smiles.

I will speak and behave differently if I am talking with a client compared with talking to a colleague compared with talking to a friend – these are all learned behaviours.

I have a roof over my head, know where my next meal is coming from, I know when my next payday will be and I have a house (well ok, the bank has a house for another 25 years of so and then it is mine, all mine!) – these are partly a result of having a steady job and buying a house here before they got too expensive.

My own explorations of the wider world and increasing maturity have provided me with a fairly healthy sense of self and a sense of humour of course.

I am thankful that in my own life I am free to make many choices and have lots of paths open to me.  Gosh does this answer the OP at all or have I gone totally off topic….smiles…it is late here.

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RE: Environment or/and Self? - 8/4/2007 12:31:11 PM   
chey


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NorthernGent I am not sure if what I am about to say will be addressing your question in the manner in which you meant it, but here goes.

I am a teacher who chose to go into the field of special education. For my first three years of teaching I had 4-6th graders with learning disabilities and behavior disorders as labeled on their school records. By my third year of dealing with their parents, hearing about life at home and trying to give some self-worth to children who had very little, I began to wonder if some of these kids would not be where they were academically had they been raised in another environment. Of about 24 students, I had maybe 6 who I felt were truly inflicted with a learning disability and the other 18 seemed to be products of an environment where they were surely set up to fail. It was a difficult job, I wanted to take so many home with me and show them what it was like to have someone there when they got home, who was not always screaming at them and actually was willing to do homework with them. So while I am not an expert by any means on the diagnosis end of things, my gut said they could have been very different kids if raised in another environment, many I am sure would have excelled in school!

In that time of teaching this population of students I began to wonder just how much a product of my environment I was. I mean I am not like anyone in my family! Of course there are some similarities but we are still so different at the same time. But then maybe that is not the question. Perhaps I do not open up easily because as a member of my family I was never given the opportunity. I was always the "dear abbey" for them and no one really listened to me so I learned to stop needing to talk about me. Maybe my being submissive came about from never telling them no? Granted over the years I have worked very hard at being healthy in my submission but could that not be where it took its roots? Devil's advocate: my never being able to tell them no could be because I was always submissive. *smiles* So confusing! My father always told me I did not know what I was talking about. I hated feeling not only that I might be stupid but that he thought I was. So to date I have put myself through school, including Grad school and two added certifications as well as beginning National Board Certification. I will probably never stop! We could debate whether or not  my father's attitude caused me to go this route making me a product of my environment, or if I was taking what I felt, reflecting upon it and doing something positive to effect a change.

So for me to determine environment or self with my students I would need to see what paths they have chosen in life as adults. If they lack ambition, have given up and are headed nowhere then I would think they would be a product of their environment. However if they are making an effort to do something with their lives, make changes and break the cycle then they are more reliant upon themselves. In my life I chose to leave behind the drama of my parent's lives, keep as much chaos out of my own life as possible, educate myself and make a life I could be proud of. So although in some ways I am a product of my environment in many more I am a product of my own conscious doing.

Could we be a little of both? Because I feel my being submissive came directly from my role in my family dynamic, however my being healthy in this choice and my growth is completely due to my own efforts.

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